Turkish Air Defence Programs

[UkroTurk]

Rf seeker means much more range in my book.


Hmm intresting, Looks like we make a sectioned the long range missile project. I think C project is siper B project is Hisar-U , A ise Hisar Gums.

İn there two option if we make a new radar seeker for siper;

1- Missile will have much more range than 100-120 km

or

2-Missile will have active radar guide behalf of semi active radar guide.

+Everything is going on schedule as Hisar-O was already planned to be a RF guided.
+ Comparing IIR with RF, yes, RF guidance gives more range. IIR ( IR with imaging ) seekers cant resist high-speed and they burn. So IIR guidance has less range. That's why Russians use not IIR , they use just IR seeker in their A-A missiles.
However IR guidance is easy to be jammed by flares.

Also Hisar missiles will have multiband data link with command post and searching radar in order to update course.

I would rather Siper -which is equal to Barak8, s350 vityaz , KM-SAM - than s400.
Because active radar homing prevents jammer's threats.
You can check those active radar guided SAM systems if you want to further meet.

Barak 8, s350vityaz have nearly 100km range. There is also Barak8-ER with booster which reaches 150km range. Moreover Turkish army has already got active guidiance 9m96e missile from s400))

I would love to see final version of Hisar or Siper anti-ballistic which would have have dual guidance IIR and RF in one like David's sling.

Hisar-O Rf missile will be test fired in this year.

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Up up up

 

[cabatli_53]

IIR ( IR with imaging ) seekers cant resist high-speed and they burn. So IIR guidance has less range. That's why Russians use not IIR , they use just IR seeker in their A-A missiles.

Higher speeds create more air friction resistance on the surfaces crossing the air more (Lenses). Bigger friction resistance causes heating of the lenses. Overheated lens prevent sufficient light transmission to detectors and seeker head receives highly blurred images in terminal phase. Longer the lenses touch the air, more blurry images occured the sight so IIR missiles have some difficulty on longer range engagements. Turkish engineers solved this problem on Hisar-O with a plug-in canopy in front of IIR seeker breaking up in terminal phase.

 

[UkroTurk]

Hisar-O Rf missile will be test fired in this year.

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@cabatli_53
Little bit i am puzzled bro.
Here you just shared Hisar O with RF but you are also saying Hisar O will have IIR seeker. ??
What's wrong with me?
Are there 2 variants of Hisar O?

 

[xbat]

yes, there will 2 variant of Hisar O missiles and additionally there is a work for extended range.

 

[xbat]

Deadly combination would be one RF beside one IIR missile per enemy aircraft, kill ratio would increase exponentially.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Higher speeds create more air friction resistance on the surfaces crossing the air more (Lenses). Bigger friction resistance causes heating of the lenses. Overheated lens prevent sufficient light transmission to detectors and seeker head receives highly blurred images in terminal phase. Longer the lenses touch the air, more blurry images occured the sight so IIR missiles have some difficulty on longer range engagements. Turkish engineers solved this problem on Hisar-O with a plug-in canopy in front of IIR seeker breaking up in terminal phase.

it looks like a simple solution but why nobody tried it? it is also interesting

 

[cabatli_53]

it looks like a simple solution but why nobody tried it? it is also interesting

Diehl applied similar solution to Iris-T SL missile having a range of 40km.

 

[cabatli_53]

@cabatli_53
Little bit i am puzzled bro.
Here you just shared Hisar O with RF but you are also saying Hisar O will have IIR seeker. ??
What's wrong with me?
Are there 2 variants of Hisar O?

Bro, Hisar experience enlarges to a big surface to air missile family. In this roadway, the current form of Hisar evolve to following structure.

• Hisar-K IIR guided Porsav MANPADS
• Hisar-A IIR guided low altitude
• Hisar-O IIR guided medium altitude
• Hisar-O Rf guided medium altitude
• Hisar-O+, N Rf guided medium altitude (O+: Land Forces, N: Air Forces)
• G-40 Naval Quad Packable medium altitude
• Hisar-G (Gökdoğan/Bozdoğan land based variant) Israeli Spyder equivalent
• Hisar-G+(Gökdoğan/Bozdoğan + booster land variant) Israeli Spyder-MR equivalent
• Siper Rf long range long altitude Aselsan/Roketsan/Tübitak SAGE partnership
• GUMS extended long range long altitude (anti-ballistic missile (?)) Aselsan/Roketsan/Eurosam partnership

 

[Quasar]

so again from the same infographic can we infer that Siper's missile is NOT a vertically launched missile. in this sense (I mean in launching methods only but nothing else) on the one hand Siper is more like patriot in which the launcers have to be positioned to a certain direction from where the enemy threat is expected and with its angled launchers which provides some empthy space at the back of the launchers for exhaust gases to escape for its hot launched missiles but on the other hand Hisar-U with its vertically launched missiles is more like S-300 or S-400 with a 360 degre missile engagement zone. I am just curious are we working on the cold launch for Hisar U?

Bro, Hisar experience enlarges to a big surface to air missile family. In this roadway, the current form of Hisar evolve to following structure.

• Hisar-K IIR guided Porsav MANPADS
• Hisar-A IIR guided low altitude
• Hisar-O IIR guided medium altitude
• Hisar-O Rf guided medium altitude
• Hisar-O+, N Rf guided medium altitude (O+: Land Forces, N: Air Forces)
• G-40 Naval Quad Packable medium altitude
• Hisar-G (Gökdoğan/Bozdoğan land based variant) Israeli Spyder equivalent
• Hisar-G+(Gökdoğan/Bozdoğan + booster land variant) Israeli Spyder-MR equivalent
• Siper Rf long range long altitude Aselsan/Roketsan/Tübitak SAGE partnership
• GUMS extended long range long altitude (anti-ballistic missile (?)) Aselsan/Roketsan/Eurosam partnership

https://twitter.com/x/status/1181526169885257729

Bro now it is safe to assume that for Siper Rf long range long altitude (Aselsan/Roketsan/Tübitak SAGE partnership) may be the cold launch will be the way to go

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Bro, Hisar experience enlarges to a big surface to air missile family. In this roadway, the current form of Hisar evolve to following structure.

• Hisar-K IIR guided Porsav MANPADS
• Hisar-A IIR guided low altitude
• Hisar-O IIR guided medium altitude
• Hisar-O Rf guided medium altitude
• Hisar-O+, N Rf guided medium altitude (O+: Land Forces, N: Air Forces)
• G-40 Naval Quad Packable medium altitude
• Hisar-G (Gökdoğan/Bozdoğan land based variant) Israeli Spyder equivalent
• Hisar-G+(Gökdoğan/Bozdoğan + booster land variant) Israeli Spyder-MR equivalent
• Siper Rf long range long altitude Aselsan/Roketsan/Tübitak SAGE partnership
• GUMS extended long range long altitude (anti-ballistic missile (?)) Aselsan/Roketsan/Eurosam partnership

Bro I think list a little bit wrong . Hisar-N isn't for Navy (N means = Navy). Also there is will be another Hisar-U project. Last one Hisar-O not only iir guided his going to target with rf datalink until terminal phase after that his open iir seeker and shot target that very deadly combine. So he probably semi active radar guided+iir guided missile.

 

[cabatli_53]

Bro I think list a little bit wrong . Hisar-N isn't for Navy (N means = Navy). Also there is will be another Hisar-U project. Last one Hisar-O not only iir guided his going to target with rf datalink until terminal phase after that his open iir seeker and shot target that very deadly combine. So he probably semi active radar guided+iir guided missile.

Bro, Hisar-N is the short name of “Nokta”. I think It refers the point defense for critical institutes and bases. The altitude figure of N will be extended compared to O variant. One thing that may differ on Siper and Hisar-N programs is the seeker head. Both may have hybrid seeker head (Rf+IIR) in further variants. Studies are proceeding.

Hisar-A/O IIR missiles have midcourse guidance via INS+datalink and then imaging infrared on terminal phase. That is the main method of IIR missiles. This doesn’t mean It has radar homing guidance. What I refer with “Rf” on other missile variants is actually a radar homing guidance that has three different technic based on selected methods. Semi-active, active and passive radar homing. Turkish Rf homing missiles will use (Siper:Ka band active/semi active(?) Rf seeker, Hisar-O/N: Ku band active Rf seeker head, Akbaba: Active and Passive mode) radar guidance. Turkish active radar seeker missiles will have home on jam and fire-forget/update capabilities as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1181526169885257729

Bro now it is safe to assume that for Siper Rf long range long altitude (Aselsan/Roketsan/Tübitak SAGE partnership) may be the cold launch will be the way to go

SAGE will apply cold launch method for quad packable G-40 missiles bro. I don’t know If Siper will have same firing principle.

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

@cabatli_53
Little bit i am puzzled bro.
Here you just shared Hisar O with RF but you are also saying Hisar O will have IIR seeker. ??
What's wrong with me?
Are there 2 variants of Hisar O?

Hisar-O was designed to utilize IIR seeker in the first place; Hisar-O RF is a variant.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Bro, Hisar-N is the short name of “Nokta”. I think It refers the point defense for critical institutes and bases. The altitude figure of N will be extended compared to O variant. One thing that may differ on Siper and Hisar-N programs is the seeker head. Both may have hybrid seeker head (Rf+IIR) in further variants. Studies are proceeding.

Hisar-A/O IIR missiles have midcourse guidance via INS+datalink and then imaging infrared on terminal phase. That is the main method of IIR missiles. This doesn’t mean It has radar homing guidance. What I refer with “Rf” on other missile variants is actually a radar homing guidance that has three different technic based on selected methods. Semi-active, active and passive radar homing. Turkish Rf homing missiles will use (Siper:Ka band active/semi active(?) Rf seeker, Hisar-O/N: Ku band active Rf seeker head, Akbaba: Active and Passive mode) radar guidance. Turkish active radar seeker missiles will have home on jam and fire-forget/update capabilities as well.



SAGE will apply cold launch method for quad packable G-40 missiles bro. I don’t know If Siper will have same firing principle.

You right bro N is nokta I forget it . On the other hand ;

Our main referrence about turkish air defence missile project right ? But there is very more project most of the same missile diffrent configuration. And that's confusing. My Predections about this projects

Hisar Üs/Liman = Towed version of Hisar-O.
Hisar O+ = Radar guided and second stage boostered version of Hisar-+ big probably can be use siper project booster. This missile range will be lower than siper just because his core missile range is 20-25 km ranged hisar-o siper is have hisar g-40 40 km ranged core missile.
Hisar Nokta = Towed version of Hisar O+.
Hisar-G = Thats land based Göktuğ but in my predection its G-40 missile. On the other hand just land bazed gökdoğan meanless if we have hisar-O rf .
Hisar-G+ = That is a Siper Project I think . Uses G-40 missile for core + second stage booster. Uses 65 km ranged active radar seeker of Bozdoğan + 40-60 km ranged rf datalik + ins for until Terminal phase. So its semi active/active radar guided missile generally againts high altitude aircrafts. 100-120 km range.
Hisar-U = Trg- 300 based air defence system active radar guided missile wich capable srbm/aircrafts. Newly produced active radar seeker.
Hisar Gums = Bora/Khaan Missile body based semi active + therminal active guided long range missile (uses Hisar-u Active Radar Seeker)

 

[cabatli_53]

You right bro N is nokta I forget it . On the other hand ;

Our main referrence about turkish air defence missile project right ? But there is very more project most of the same missile diffrent configuration. And that's confusing. My Predections about this projects

Hisar Üs/Liman = Towed version of Hisar-O.
Hisar O+ = Radar guided and second stage boostered version of Hisar-+ big probably can be use siper project booster. This missile range will be lower than siper just because his core missile range is 20-25 km ranged hisar-o siper is have hisar g-40 40 km ranged core missile.
Hisar Nokta = Towed version of Hisar O+.
Hisar-G = Thats land based Göktuğ but in my predection its G-40 missile. On the other hand just land bazed gökdoğan meanless if we have hisar-O rf .
Hisar-G+ = That is a Siper Project I think . Uses G-40 missile for core + second stage booster. Uses 65 km ranged active radar seeker of Bozdoğan + 40-60 km ranged rf datalik + ins for until Terminal phase. So its semi active/active radar guided missile generally againts high altitude aircrafts. 100-120 km range.
Hisar-U = Trg- 300 based air defence system active radar guided missile wich capable srbm/aircrafts. Newly produced active radar seeker.
Hisar Gums = Bora/Khaan Missile body based semi active + therminal active guided long range missile (uses Hisar-u Active Radar Seeker)

I think Hisar Üs/Liman is the same project commenced in 2018/19 SSIK meeting with a name of “Golden Cage”. It is supposed to be the equivalent of Israeli Iron-Dome but Turkish system will be operated with Korkut system inside the same network.

Hisar-O+ will have a range 40+km, maybe the range exceeds 50km If the army describe such a requirement, but I don’t suppose there will be a booster integration study for a medium range SAM system. They will most likely change the form of missile to house additional fuel.

N variant was formed to meet the requirement of Air Force to replace aged Hawk batteries.

G-40 is a special Navy program that will be equivalent of ESSM-2. National MIDAS VL launchers will house four G-40 missiles at each tube thanks to folded wing form.

 

[CAN_TR]

After this source SIPER prototype development will start this year.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1239196934168027136