Turkish Air Defence Programs

[himate]

Why are you relying on getting Americans to deploy Patriots? You have F-16 Block 50s with the best operational AMRAAM version out there.

Simple! The enemy perception that Turkey has no Nukes. How long are we going to ignore the elephant in the room? When are the people and the leaders going to realise that to survive in our region we must match what our enemies have? Building a great defence industry is simply isn't enough without nukes

 

[Oublious]

Why are you relying on getting Americans to deploy Patriots? You have F-16 Block 50s with the best operational AMRAAM version out there.

Russian have SAM systems, Patriot will block Russian fighters....

So basicly it will be a no fly zone for both side.

 

[himate]

Russian have SAM systems, Patriot will block Russian fighters....

So basicly it will be a no fly zone for both side.

sound logical! but downing either fighter plane will to lead to all-out war. That's why Putin feels empowered because he has nukes and we don't. It's simple as that! Putin won't dare to misbehave with tiny Israel because they possess nukes

 

[UkroTurk]

Turkish Army has HAWK SAM systems.

 

[m52k85]

Russian have SAM systems, Patriot will block Russian fighters....

So basicly it will be a no fly zone for both side.

Russian SAM's can be dealt with SOWs.

 

[Oublious]

Russian SAM's can be dealt with SOWs.

yes, but are we declaring war?

 

[m52k85]

sound logical! but downing either fighter plane will to lead to all-out war. That's why Putin feels empowered because he has nukes and we don't. It's simple as that! Putin won't dare to misbehave with tiny Israel because they possess nukes

Simple! The enemy perception that Turkey has no Nukes. How long are we going to ignore the elephant in the room? When are the people and the leaders going to realise that to survive in our region we must match what our enemies have? Building a great defence industry is simply isn't enough without nukes

No brother, trust a Pakistani when he says it's better in your situation without nukes. Pakistan was unable to escalate against India last Feb because of the 'nuclear uncertainty'. Turkey on the other hand can escalate and down a few Russian SUs and SEAD out a couple of Russian SAM batteries without the nuclear overhang. In this game you will be sure Putin doesn't respond nuclearly because he's sure he doesn't face a nuclear threat.

yes, but are we declaring war?

That's for you to decide

 

[himate]

No brother, trust a Pakistani when he says it's better in your situation without nukes. Pakistan was unable to escalate against India last Feb because of the 'nuclear uncertainty'. Turkey on the other hand can escalate and down a few Russian SUs and SEAD out a couple of Russian SAM batteries without the nuclear overhang. In this game you will be sure Putin doesn't respond nuclearly because he's sure he doesn't face a nuclear threat.


That's for you to decide

Brother, with all due respect you're contradicting yourself here don't you see? The reason pakistan managed to retaliate is because you're a declared nuclear power and the reason much bigger India backpedalled despite losing their fighter plane to you is because again pakistan is a nuclear power.

Now lets stop here so to avoid derailing the thread

 

[polanski]

US Officials Confirmed, Turkey Has Requested Deployment of Patriot Missile Defense in Turkey: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...loyment-of-patriot-missile-defense-in-turkey/

 

[bsruzm]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1230762298664292352

"Daily sabah" refuted and we should have trusted it....

They can't get my vote, simple

 

[m52k85]

Brother, with all due respect you're contradicting yourself here don't you see? The reason pakistan managed to retaliate is because you're a declared nuclear power and the reason much bigger India backpedalled despite losing their fighter plane to you is because again pakistan is a nuclear power.

Now lets stop here so to avoid derailing the thread

Ok let's not derail the thread, but I would love to continue this discussion, shall I make another thread: 'Turkish options in Idlib Feb 2020'?

 

[xbat]

HISAR A, can be . if they push, prototype missiles and systems can send idlib. since we are in war it is possible.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

İf siper will come 2-3 years later. Why we cant try a add gökdoğan radar seeker and rf receiver to sm-1 mr's and enlarge his range with one of the 4 boosters of the nike hercules ? Sm-1 mr can be workable smart-s mk2 , akr fcs, mar-d and genesis.

Command control and radar not problem , just make him truck based versions. Missile big probably will be sm-1 er like missile ;

İt would be good stop gap sarh missile better than iranian sayyad.

En azından bir test felan yapsınlar.

 

[UkroTurk]

İf siper will come 2-3 years later. Why we cant try a add gökdoğan radar seeker and rf receiver to sm-1 mr's and enlarge his range with one of the 4 boosters of the nike hercules ? Sm-1 mr can be workable smart-s mk2 , akr fcs, mar-d and genesis.

Command control and radar not problem , just make him truck based versions. Missile big probably will be sm-1 er like missile ;

İt would be good stop gap sarh missile better than iranian sayyad.

En azından bir test felan yapsınlar.

Do you know how were frigate's ESSMs modernized with smart mk2? Producer of ESSM Raytheon updated software of systems for us.although They didnt upgraded just for us , there had been several ESSM upgrades for another countries.
http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/2019-...gins-for-Raytheon-Evolved-SeaSparrow-Missiles
ESSM had semi active guidiance for initial and medium stage. AFAIK they shortened semi active guidiance process. Now ESSM guidiance happens substantially active via smart -s radar. They also replaced active guidiance kit, seeker.( Adı her neyse)
Creating a totally New system from scratch would be easier.
I don't think for Aselsan and roketsan adding rocket fuel and reach the maximum range and altitude are the problem, the problem must be creating accurate guidance kits, solid software and penetrative sensors.
Why they didnt modernize SM1s at the same time with ESSM modernization?
AFAIK There was just a VLS modernization of SM1s.
I dont know that raytheon allowed Turkey to connect Sm1s with smart-s radar.
I even dont know if it is possible.

comparing size of s400's 40n6e missiles- which have 400km range or 180km altitude -with sizeo tr300 kasırga artillery rockets there is nothing too much. Differences between an artillery rocket and active guidiance SAMs are like blazes.
As you just admitted , Turkey has several SAM systems in order to bite painfully to some countries. It is the matter of balls.

Edit: s400's 40n6e hits targets at 400km with semi-active guidance ! 40n6e Missiles are guided semi-active at most of their course.
Only 9m96e(100km) and 9m96e2(120km) are long range active guidance missiles.
To be honest, Israelis Barak 8 would be great for now.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Do you know how were frigate's ESSMs modernized with smart mk2? Producer of ESSM Raytheon updated software of systems for us.although They didnt upgraded just for us , there had been several ESSM upgrades for another countries.
http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/2019-...gins-for-Raytheon-Evolved-SeaSparrow-Missiles
ESSM had semi active guidiance for initial and medium stage. AFAIK they shortened semi active guidiance process. Now ESSM guidiance happens substantially active via smart -s radar. They also replaced active guidiance kit, seeker.( Adı her neyse)
Creating a totally New system from scratch would be easier.
I don't think for Aselsan and roketsan adding rocket fuel and reach the maximum range and altitude are the problem, the problem must be creating accurate guidance kits, solid software and penetrative sensors.
Why they didnt modernize SM1s at the same time with ESSM modernization?
AFAIK There was just a VLS modernization of SM1s.
I dont know that raytheon allowed Turkey to connect Sm1s with smart-s radar.
I even dont know if it is possible.

comparing size of s400's 40n6e missiles- which have 400km range or 180km altitude -with sizeo tr300 kasırga artillery rockets there is nothing too much. Differences between an artillery rocket and active guidiance SAMs are like blazes.
As you just admitted , Turkey has several SAM systems in order to bite painfully to some countries. It is the matter of balls.

Edit: s400's 40n6e hits targets at 400km with semi-active guidance ! 40n6e Missiles are guided semi-active at most of their course.
Only 9m96e(100km) and 9m96e2(120km) are long range active guidance missiles.
To be honest, Israelis Barak 8 would be great for now.

I dont think raytheon is a problem about this idea bro. İf Raytheon knowledge required Iran can not modernize his sm-1 missiles to sayyad's. On the other hand if raytheon is a problem even we cannot change the fire control radar of essm on the barbaros mlu with mar-d radar.

Actually if we look only offically given info we can have all we need to have for makeing 100 km ranged sam.

We have 250 km ranged s band radar for target search named smart-s mk2
We have 100 km ranged x band radar for target track named mar-d
We have 30 to 120 km ranged ku +x band radars for fire control system named akr series
We have 65 km active radar seeker and missille for a-a missions named göktuğ radar seeker.
We have command control systems named advent.
Just all we need a boster and I'm thinking we have .

So

İf our problem is only aircrafts (For now yes) , We can find a target with smart-s mk2 and track him mar-d, and launch him our boostered land based 100 km ranged gökdoğan and guide him first 40 km with akr-d after the mid course they can contiune with his 65 km ranged active radar seeker. Also in first 40 km they have less shot accuracy but for first 40 km we have g-40 who have range 40 km and also he have active radar seeker.

Actually this post argue why we use a more radar on barbaros mlu. Maybe we think use him stop gap air defence ship.