Turk-Russian Approach: Russia is ready to offer joint production of Su-57 fighters to Ankara

[MMM-E]

Su-57 compared to F-35 is like F-18E compared to F-16. Bigger, twin engined, but each engine is not as powerful because smaller.

SU-57's 2 x AL-41F1 Engines = 66,000 pounds of thrust .... 2x Izlediya-30 Engines = 79.000+ pounds of thrust
F-35's 1 x F-135 Engine = 43.000 pounds of thrust

 

[My-Analogous]

According to statement of Igor Korotçenko quoted by Sputnik, If US halts delivery of F35 to Turkey, They will offer Su-57 fighters to Ankara with joint production of fighter in Turkey.

https://tr.sputniknews.com/savunma/...as-ucagi-su57yi-ithal-eden-ilk-ulke-olabilir/

I think Pakistan, China, Russia and Turkey join hand to make 5th and 6th gen fighters and together we do wonder.Trust me

 

[MrSato1]

I think Pakistan, China, Russia and Turkey join hand to make 5th and 6th gen fighters and together we do wonder.Trust me

lol and why would china do that? The only real trouble they have is with engines so all they would need is russia. Because china and Pakistan is close does not mean they will ever trust turks. Russiaa and India was close, did that make china any closer to india? No, so forget about it

 

[monitor]

Havada F-35’e ‘alternatif’ listesi: Rusya, Çin, Avrupa aday
Dışişleri Bakanı Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu'nun, "F-35'ler olmazsa Türkiye'nin, ihtiyacı olan uçakları herhangi bir yerden almak durumunda kalacağı" yönündeki beyanı Türkiye'nin alternatiflerini gündeme getirdi. GZT, farklı önceliklere göre geliştirilen uçakları Türkiye ve Etki Alanındaki Bölgeler Savunma Analisti Turan Oğuz'a sordu. İşte Türkiye'nin F-35'e karşı 'alternatif' listesi.
HİKMET YALÇINKAYA 10/04/2019 ÇARŞAMBA, 16:41 GZT 3 DAKİKADA OKUNUR

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Dünyanın en önemli havacılık fuarları arasında yer alan Avustralya Uluslararası Havacılık Fuarı Avalon Airshow 2019, hava unsurlarının gösterileriyle başlamıştı.
Fotoğraf : Recep Şakar

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YORUM


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PAYLAŞ

Cumhurbaşkanı Recep Tayyip Erdoğan Rusya ziyareti sonrası gazetecilere uçakta yaptığı açıklamada, Türkiye'nin bu konudaki egemenliğini kimseyle paylaşmayacağına vurgu yaparak, Moskova ziyaretinin çok önceden planlandığını, ABD’nin ‘F-35’lerin verilmeyebileceği’ açıklamasıyla bir ilgisi olmadığını belirtmişti.

Donald Trump, F-35 uçağının önünde görünüyor.
Reuters


Çavuşoğlu F-35'in alternatiflerine işaret etti
NTV yayınına katılan Dışişleri Bakanı Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu ise ABD'nin Türkiye'ye Patriot sistemleri ya da F-35 uçakları satmaması halinde Türkiye'nin bu ihtiyaçlarını karşılamak için başka alternatiflere bakabileceğini gündeme getirdi.

• GZT, Türkiye ve Etki Alanındaki Bölgeler Savunma Analisti Turan Oğuz'a Türkiye'nin F-35 alternatiflerini sordu.

Türkiye’nin Milli Muharip Uçak Projesi: TF-X



F-35'in 'alternatifleri' neler?
Yerli savunma sanayideki gelişmelere dikkati çeken Turan Oğuz, "Bizim kendi TF-X milli muharip uçağımız var. 10 sene içinde aktif olarak envantere girerek filolar halinde uçması bekleniyor. Bununla birlikte yine Hürjet’imiz, şuan eğitim için İzmir'de olan ve 2020’de uçuş yapmasını beklediğimiz. Hürkuş’umuz var." dedi.

Hürjet Verimlilik ve Teknoloji Fuarı'nda sergilenmişti.
AA


Rusya'nın 5. nesil uçağı: Su-57
Yerli uçaklarımızın beklenilmemesi halinde ise ithal edebileceğimiz uçaklara değinen Oğuz, "Su-57 var 5. Nesil hava üstünlük uçağı olarak bunlarında çalışmaları devam ediyor. Seri üretim olarak Rusya da envantere henüz girebilmiş değil. Motor çalışmaları hala devam ediyor. Kırım’a konuşlandırılması düşünülüyor." ifadelerini kullandı.

Rus yapımı Su-57 hava muharip uçağı olarak öne çıkıyor.
İHA


Dünyanın en iyi manevra yapan uçaklarından biri: Su-35
Farklı bir amaç doğrultusunda olsa da Su-57'nin önemli bir alternatif olduğuna işaret eden Oğuz, "Yine aynı şekilde 5. Nesil düşünmezsek 4++ nesil dediğimiz 4. Nesilden üstün 5. Nesilden bazı özellikleri düşük olan Su-35 uçağı var. Dünyanın en iyi manevra yapabilen avcı uçaklarından biri diyebiliriz." şeklinde konuştu.

REKLAM

Su-35 manevra özelliği sayesinde ön plana çıkıyor.
Reuters


Teorik olarak bunların olmaması durumunda farlı alternatiflerinin olduğunu söyleyen Turan Oğuz şu ifadeleri kullandı:

Çin üretimi 5. nesil uçak: J31
"Çin’in Pakistan’la görüştüğü 5. Nesil FC31 yani J31 uçaklarının 'ihraç versiyonu olan FC31' için görüşülebilir. Çin bu uçağı henüz satmıyor fakat en azından Pakistan ile satış görüşmelerine devam edilmesi sürecin başladığını gösteriyor. Bu da Türkiye için bir alternatif olabilir.

Çin yapımı J-31 böyle sergilenmişti.
Reuters


Avrupa da bir seçenek: Eurofighter Typhoon
Ayrıca eğer yaptırımların kapsamında kalmazsak Avrupa uçakları var, Eurofighter Typhoon gibi 4+ nesil uçaklar da mevcut."

Türkiye'nin alternatifsiz olmadığını belirten Oğuz, ilk alternatiflerimizin kendi uçaklarımız olduğunu ve Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan ve Rusya Devlet Başkanı Vladimir Putin’in gerçekleştirdikleri toplantılarda da işaret edilen askeri alanda Rusya-Türkiye ortaklığının değerlendirilmeye değer olduğunu açıkladı.

Eurofighter Typhoon ve Dassault Rafale Berlin Hava Festivali'nde sergilenmişti.
Reuters


Su-57 için Türkiye-Rusya ortaklığı mümkün mü?
"Tüm bunları değerlendirdiğimiz zaman hem yurtiçi hem yurtdışında teorik olarak çalışabileceğimiz ortak bazı çalışmalar yapabilmek bugün için mümkün" ifadelerini kullanan Oğuz, Rusya ile Su-57 için 'ortak üretim istenir mi?' veya 'Rusya bunu kabul eder mi?' sorularının bir sonraki adım olabileceğini söyledi.






F-35 ve Su-57 kıyaslanabilir mi?
F-35 ve Su-57 arasında kıyaslama yapmanın çok doğru veriler sunmayacağına vurgu yapan Oğuz, "Su-57 ilk öncelik olarak bir hava-hava uçağıdır, hava muharebelerinde etkin olması beklenmektedir. F-35 ise cok maksatlı bir uçaktır ama öncelikle hava-yer görevlerinde etkin olması beklenmektedir" dedi.

Rusya'nın Su-57'i ABD'nin F-22'sine karşı ürettiği biliniyor.
AA


"Su-57 F-22'ye karşın geliştirildi"
Su-57'nin F-22 ile kıyaslanması gerektiğini söyleyen Oğuz şöyle konuştu:

"Su-57 Rusya’nın F-22’ye karşılık geliştirdiği bir hava üstünlük uçağıdır. Daha ileri manevra kabiliyetli, daha atik bir uçak ve hava muharebelerine daha uygun üretilmiş bir uçak. Ancak bu görevi icra ettikten sonra hava-yer, yani bombalama görevlerini de yapabilir. F-35 ile Su-57 askeri stratejiler gereği çok mecbur kalınmadıkça direkt karşı karşıya gelmeyeceklerdir. Bir hava muharebesi durumunda Rusya'da Su-57 öne çıkacaktır. ABD de kendi stratejileri gereği F-35’i değil F-22yi değerlendirir. Çünkü F-22 de hava üstünlük uçağıdır. Normal şartlarda hava savaşları bittikten sonra ABD F-35’i görevlendirebilir. Her işi yapabilecek bir uçak istiyorsanız F-35, düşman uçağı engelleyecek bir uçak istiyorsanız Su-57 daha öne çıkacaktır."

 

[Oublious]

I think If F35 had such an unique and unrivalled stealth design features, US would have never allowed to sell them abroad. However, F35 is a multinational stealth program and US aims to gain impressive money with exporting them to ally all around the World. I mean It will be the new F16 of the US with advanced network and data processing features with an avarage stealth coating fuselage not better than Su-57 so I don’t think It hosts very special features in terms of getting stealth. In the mean time, This aircraft have joined into strike operations in Syria and It seems F35 will show off its strength in many different places of the World so stealth characteristics of them have already been collected by enemy radars and electronic warfar sensors. There won’t remain anything secret about them within 2-3 years but F-22 is a different story to begin with. Although It is the design of 30 years ago, F22 hosts something very special which enables US to keep it away from not only costumers but also hot conflict zone so Purchasing Su-57 (Likely) would cost many political and economical consequences for Turkey but I don’t think Su-57 can perform less than F35 in crisis times.

If we want the F35 then we should give up Akkuyu nuclear powerplant, Turkstream from Russia and after that what else? In this case it is our profit wher we take distance from F35(zararin neresinden donersek kardir).

 

[CAN_TR]

IMO...They need to make two steps before we should make one towards them.
- Abondon YPG/PKK.
- Give Patriots with every condition Turkey asked for.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

If we want the F35 then we should give up Akkuyu nuclear powerplant, Turkstream from Russia and after that what else? In this case it is our profit wher we take distance from F35(zararin neresinden donersek kardir).

Turkey was inducted into NATO to fight Russia. How many bullets Turkey shot into Russia? Zippo. No wonder America is angry with Turkey.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

The US has great weaponry and technology and it would have been great if the Turks could've gotten some of it. However, the US has been making the cost of alliance with it rise greatly in recent times, and it seems the Turks have started to rethink whether what they are buying is worth the price they are asked to pay.

What is the point of getting F35s if buying them costs you your ability to make basic decisions for youself?

Military allows nations to protect their interests - and it seems the Turks have decided (and they know well the capabilites of F35s being offered to them) that this whole deal is not worth the price they are being asked to pay.

...

 

[Basel]

Russians are squeezing juice out of USA. Russians are making it really difficult for USA to sell weapons along foreign policy interests.

Turks have many 5th gen options on table. They will manage good.

TFX is going to be reality if F-35 is not available.

 

[Mithridates]

RCS is classified. NO one knows their numbers except MAYBE the CEOs for their companies and that's a big MAYBE.

yeah i know. the western medias are actively trolling the countries that oppose them i just tried to clarify that even with that ridiculous claim that su-57 has an RCS equal to 0.1 sqm, it's superior to f-35. also every country that claims it is building 5th generation plane you should keep this in your mind that it's RCS is under 0.01 sqm limit.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

TFX is going to be reality if F-35 is not available.

Easier said than done. Not even Sweden can make a 5th gen jet and Sweden been making jets since 1950s. Draken. Viggen. Gripen.

 

[Basel]

Easier said than done. Not even Sweden can make a 5th gen jet and Sweden been making jets since 1950s. Draken. Viggen. Gripen.

Ever heard of BAE?? And what they have in terms of stealth tech?

 

[MMM-E]

Turkey was inducted into NATO to fight Russia. How many bullets Turkey shot into Russia? Zippo. No wonder America is angry with Turkey.

after the collapse of USSR in 1991 , The US -The UK have started attacking to Muslim countries and Turkey is one of them ( because of for the US and the UK the new enemy is ISLAM , instead of Communism )

There are serious confrontation between Turkey and the US in northern Syria

-- the US support PKK/YPG terrorists to destroy Turkey's territorial integrity for Israeli interests
-- the US support FETO terror organization to destroy Turkish government and Turkish people for Israeli interests
-- the US support Israel-Egypt-Greece alliance to steal gas-oil reserves from the Turks in the Eastern Mediterranean


Turks are angry with the US

 

[LeGenD]

I think If F35 had such an unique and unrivalled stealth design features, US would have never allowed to sell them abroad. However, F35 is a multinational stealth program and US aims to gain impressive money with exporting them to ally all around the World. I mean It will be the new F16 of the US with advanced network and data processing features with an avarage stealth coating fuselage not better than Su-57 so I don’t think It hosts very special features in terms of getting stealth. In the mean time, This aircraft have joined into strike operations in Syria and It seems F35 will show off its strength in many different places of the World so stealth characteristics of them have already been collected by enemy radars and electronic warfar sensors. There won’t remain anything secret about them within 2-3 years but F-22 is a different story to begin with. Although It is the design of 30 years ago, F22 hosts something very special which enables US to keep it away from not only costumers but also hot conflict zone so Purchasing Su-57 (Likely) would cost many political and economical consequences for Turkey but I don’t think Su-57 can perform less than F35 in crisis times.

F-35 is NOT for export to every country out there but members of NATO and Israel only. US is offering F-16V to numerous countries instead.

US considered multinational route for F-35 in order to reduce its cost of production. If US was to produce F-35 exclusively then it would have been very expensive for export afterwards. But F-35 was not possible without Lockheed Martin's contribution - the company which also produced F-22A Raptor.

As for operations over Syria, NO ISSUE. Russian radar systems cannot identify F-35 and track its movements in real-time all over Syria. And even if Russian jets spot one, they cannot breach its defenses and/or glean much from it. F-35's AESA radar system can perform full-volume search in under 3 seconds and the pilot can fallback on 'passive' sensor systems for war-fighting activities afterwards (beauty of full-spectrum sensor fusion).

AN/APG-81 radar system + AN/ASQ-239 Barracuda system = exceptionally powerful EW capability

"Onboard EW functions are closely coupled with the F-35's agile radar, which like many other onboard electronic systems is built by Northrop Grumman. The radar is used not only to track and target potential threats, but also to generate jamming signals that overload enemy sensor and communication receivers so that they cannot be used effectively. These software-driven functions must be performed with great precision to generate effects at the exact frequencies where hostile emitters are operating without disrupting signals used by friendly forces.

Because the F-35's EW architecture is fully digitized, it weighs less, needs less space, and requires less power than legacy technology. However, the F-35 provides much greater electrical power for electronic applications than last-generation aircraft, enabling it to collect information and generate effects over larger areas. The radar is designed to generate highly directional signals for jamming so that emitters in specific locations can be disrupted without causing collateral effects elsewhere in the battlespace.

To summarize, the F-35 is essentially self-sufficient in its capacity to detect, localize, prioritize and defeat hostile emitters. It not only doesn't require dedicated support aircraft, but it can act as a jamming aircraft for other planes that are not so well-endowed. Whatever information a particular pilot cannot get from his or her onboard systems can generally be obtained from off-board sources (including other F-35s) via secure data links."

Full read: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorent...-fighter-story-you-havent-heard/#3bac52d68ccd

US have extensively utilized F-22A over Syria as well. You think that F-22A is compromised consequently? Why Russian defenses utterly failed to blunt American strikes on Syrian regime each time then?

Israeli SOP is to operate F-35 with radar reflectors in broad daylight and utilize it for strikes in the night. Russian activities are closely monitored and mission routes are planned in accordance.

---

Take cues from the performance of PAF in its clashes with IAF on February 18, 2019. PAF shot down two Indian jets including the MUCH HYPED Su-30 MKI with 3rd generation JF-17 Thunder Block II and 4th generation F-16 MLU in the mix. PAF's blinder squadron was providing EW cover from safe distance.

Indian PM Modi went as far as to cry about the importance of inducting French Rafale and how it would have made much difference.

Before this clash, we had many heated discussions with Indians about HYPING Su-30 MKI beyond measure, but they were blind to realities. Now many are scratching their heads and inventing false stories to console themselves.

Recommended read: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/russia-s-involvement-in-syria-proves-that-its-far-behin-1794966734

"Russia has made a lot of noise about the modern weapons it has used during combat in Syria and how effective these new weapons are. Fresh Su-34 attack jets scream through the skies, while the latest in small arms test their mettle. But the reality is most of what Russia has used is not as shiny and advanced as Moscow would like you to believe. The vast majority of aircraft carrying out airstrikes are among the oldest in the Russian military, and it only gets worse from there."

Turkish leadership needs to reconsider its decisions in relation to defensive needs of the country - putting too much faith on Russian gear is a big mistake. Russia is NOT a substitute for NATO.

 

[zzzz]

yeah i know. the western medias are actively trolling the countries that oppose them i just tried to clarify that even with that ridiculous claim that su-57 has an RCS equal to 0.1 sqm, it's superior to f-35. also every country that claims it is building 5th generation plane you should keep this in your mind that it's RCS is under 0.01 sqm limit.

RCS of the plane is not described by one number.
The given RCS figure can be the lowest magic angle number.
It can be 30 degrees frontal average RCS which is many times bigger.
It can be 360 degrees average which is many times bigger than frontal average.
RCS figure may include RAM effect or may not.

RCS of X-47

RCS of F-35 without RAM

20db = RCS of 100m2
10db = 10m2
0db = 1m2
-10db = 0.1m2
-20db = 0.01m2