Turkey considers Russian Su-57 or Chinese J-31 jets to replace F-35s

[R Wing]

Hi,

You already made the buying decision 10 + years ago when you signed up for the F35---.

When the moment came for the delivery of the vehicle---the seller backed out for one reason or another---. Because the seller felt that you have not managed and maintained " a certain pro western mindset and mentality "

Now---you cannot go back to the drawing board and draw one for yourself---you don't have 10 billion dollars laying around---.

Your open choice now is to find what is available---either the J31 or SU57---and get the best use out of it---.

The time is running out on you---just like it ran out on pakistan on 26th feb---when pakistan found out that it was woefully low on numbers in 4th gen.

Pakistanis kept talking that there would be no war---on the 26th / 27th feb---we were in a war---right now we are on the brink of a war.

Since our strike back on the 27th---the enemy has tried maybe around 30 times to strike back---.

To sabotage the TFX---they will promise you the engine---and then at the last minute---they will throw in a " glitch "---aka an intentional sabotage on your properties---where you will react and do something---& the west will claim it to be something to cancel the engine delivery---.

You can either buy the eurofighter---the Rafale or the Grippen NG---but you don't have time to build your own 5th gen right now---.

So---SU57---or the J31---!!!

J31 is not even fully developed nor anywhere near being mature. Su57 has seen more development but I think it would be a bad idea for Turkey. Turkey can develop a better jet than Su57. F35 is a beast but comes with a lot of strings attached. If things keep going south in terms of F35 acquisition...a better option for Turkey would be to skip acquiring Su57 or any other 5th gen options like J31. Instead accelerate TFX program with the money that will no longer be going towards F35s and try to collaborate with other countries like South Africa, European countries(if they r willing), Russia, China, Pakistan and others willing to join. South Africa has a lot to offer in terms of avionics and even weaponry. Russia, China, and European countries like UK and France can help out with engine development. Italy, Spain, Germany, and Sweden can also be helpful in development of TFX...and Pakistan is already looking for a possible collaboration with Turkey. So it's better to play it safe and develop something that's ur own with no strings attached...as opposed to getting something half baked, which will also divert some funds towards acquiring those jets.

J35 (latest version of J31) is probably the best option for Turkey and Pakistan as well. Its size and design is good enough to fulfil all basic future requirements. Project Azam and TFX both can use J35 as base platform, which would be better than US flying laptop and probably Su 57 also. Because at this developing stage of J35 a lot customisations and adaptation would be possible

More over local production at Kamra and Turkey would be feasible comfortably. Domestic systems and weaponry could be incorporated

China is doing good in avionics so more capable AESA radar can be demanded

For us newbies, can someone pls explain the basic differences and pros/cons (other than readiness) of these two platforms (J31/35 vs. Su 57)

Are both considered 4.5 gen or truly 5th gen?

Are both designed for the same kind of operations (i.e. multirole / ground attack VS. air superiority)? I'm asking this to understand if they are even in the same 'category.'

What is the difference in price point?

Any other important differences in capability and role?

Thank you!

 

[Cookie Monster]

For us newbies, can someone pls explain the basic differences and pros/cons (other than readiness) of these two platforms (J31/35 vs. Su 57)

Are both considered 4.5 gen or truly 5th gen?

Are both designed for the same kind of operations (i.e. multirole / ground attack VS. air superiority)? I'm asking this to understand if they are even in the same 'category.'

What is the difference in price point?

Any other important differences in capability and role?

Thank you!

I'm not an expert whatsoever. I will just briefly talk about FC31. I keep seeing Pakistanis saying that PAF should get FC31. But they don't stop to ask themselves why? And based on what parameters?

They just see that the airframe looks somewhat stealthy...and that this is the only option available to Pak...hence Pak should get it. However that's not how a professional airforce goes about inducting platforms. FC31 isn't even fully developed. Whether it was a competing design against J20 and lost or a design privately funded by Shenyang for export...the fact of the matter is that it is incomplete...let alone mature. It is underpowered bcuz unlike J20 there was no effort to develop engines especially for FC31. If it does get powerful engines in the future it would be mainly due to China's progression in jet engine tech trickling down to this jet. Then there's the question of how far along are the avionics developed for this fighter jet...and sensor fusion. Not to mention that even the airframe has gone through some design changes...meaning that there might still be a few things that need to be tweaked in the shaping of the airframe itself. The biggest flaw IMO is that it wasn't built from the ground up with a clear design philosophy in mind. Unlike this one, the J20 was built for air superiority and long range...and u can see that in the design. All of this rant isn't to hate on Shenyang or FC31...it's the lack of funds and interest in the program.

Maybe if it gets picked by PLAAF or PLAN...or if it gets funding by some foreign country and develops into a decent FINISHED product...then it makes sense for PAF to look into it and evaluate it. Until then a country like Pakistan with its scarce resources needs to steer away from any high risk projects.

For those reasons above...Turkey shouldn't consider it either.

As for Su57...I don't know enough about it.

 

[R Wing]

I'm not an expert whatsoever. I will just briefly talk about FC31. I keep seeing Pakistanis saying that PAF should get FC31. But they don't stop to ask themselves why? And based on what parameters?

They just see that the airframe looks somewhat stealthy...and that this is the only option available to Pak...hence Pak should get it. However that's not how a professional airforce goes about inducting platforms. FC31 isn't even fully developed. Whether it was a competing design against J20 and lost or a design privately funded by Shenyang for export...the fact of the matter is that it is incomplete...let alone mature. It is underpowered bcuz unlike J20 there was no effort to develop engines especially for FC31. If it does get powerful engines in the future it would be mainly due to China's progression in jet engine tech trickling down to this jet. Then there's the question of how far along are the avionics developed for this fighter jet...and sensor fusion. Not to mention that even the airframe has gone through some design changes...meaning that there might still be a few things that need to be tweaked in the shaping of the airframe itself. The biggest flaw IMO is that it wasn't built from the ground up with a clear design philosophy in mind. Unlike this one, the J20 was built for air superiority and long range...and u can see that in the design. All of this rant isn't to hate on Shenyang or FC31...it's the lack of funds and interest in the program.

Maybe if it gets picked by PLAAF or PLAN...or if it gets funding by some foreign country and develops into a decent FINISHED product...then it makes sense for PAF to look into it and evaluate it. Until then a country like Pakistan with its scarce resources needs to steer away from any high risk projects.

For those reasons above...Turkey shouldn't consider it either.

As for Su57...I don't know enough about it.

Thank you!

Apparently it has now gotten funding by both PLAAF and PLAN.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Thank you!

Apparently it has now gotten funding by both PLAAF and PLAN.

It sounds like rumors so far...nothing concrete...such rumors have been floated before.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

I vote to go with chinese j-31 but ou cant go wrong with eirher of them. Of course if they choose russian tech . usa will be more hostile towards turkey. China is a safer option. But s400 is russian. So su 57 might be it.

 

[Tumba]

Going for S400 against F-35 was a bad military decision, but politically Turkey became more free from NATO and political freedom is always better in long term.
But as a system to system F-35 is much better than a S400

 

[UzaySan]

Do you guys really think we will buy a russian or chinese fighter? Forget it. İt will never happen. Because there is TFX project

 

[Nein]

Do you guys really think we will buy a russian or chinese fighter? Forget it. İt will never happen. Because there is TFX project

I always thought a Russian jet was possible the problem was that Turkey follows a different doctrine from Russia also how Turkey has different requirements when it comes to Jets.

 

[cabatli_53]

SSB to negotiate Russian Su-35 and 57 offers in Russia according to RIA.

https://m.haberturk.com/son-dakika-rus-basinindan-flas-su-35-ve-su-57-iddiasi-2517022

 

[dBSPL]

Another Russian propaganda and the Neo-Eurasian Turkish press that hangs on their tail. Who conducts the feasibility studies about Su-35? Politicians? The bureaucratic way of dealing with such purchases is clear. In the simplest way, did you see any general of the Air Force in the photos shown yesterday or did you see the SSB president ?

Even if you buy a Western fighter, this requires dealing with many problems that cannot be solved immediately. Adoption of a system that is incompatible with the entire doctrine and logistics organization of the Air Force, cant be as simple step.

Even if such a procurement occurs: It may need decades of time and cost factor could be compulsive for transformation and full operational competence, can be very challenging. Turkey's current projects structure, the defense budget and manpower resources is not compatible with it. Nor does it have geopolitical conditions that are comfortable enough to wait for this transformation.

This could be a Z-plan. But it can never be plan A. The purpose of these photographs and dialogues which is served to the press , alla about sending message to someones. It is beneficial both for the Russian defense industry and for Turkish foreign policy.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Another Russian propaganda and the Neo-Eurasian Turkish press that hangs on their tail. Who conducts the feasibility studies about Su-35? Politicians? The bureaucratic way of dealing with such purchases is clear. In the simplest way, did you see any general of the Air Force in the photos shown yesterday or did you see the SSB president ?

Even if you buy a Western fighter, this requires dealing with many problems that cannot be solved immediately. Adoption of a system that is incompatible with the entire doctrine and logistics organization of the Air Force, cant be as simple step.

Even if such a procurement occurs: It may need decades of time and cost factor could be compulsive for transformation and full operational competence, can be very challenging. Turkey's current projects structure, the defense budget and manpower resources is not compatible with it. Nor does it have geopolitical conditions that are comfortable enough to wait for this transformation.

This could be a Z-plan. But it can never be plan A. The purpose of these photographs and dialogues which is served to the press , alla about sending message to someones. It is beneficial both for the Russian defense industry and for Turkish foreign policy.

It is a geo-politic message; Both sides can get benefits from it for the mid-long term if played right in the chess of international relations.

This map is crystal clear about the possibilities and realities on future perspective/reflection.

P.s.: I am sure of your sincerity,but in general such posts/talks in everywhere (including this tiny forum) do only downgrade the value of such goe-pollicies of a country in the eyes of third parties.

 

[Nein]

Acquring S-35 is one of the most irrational path to follow therefore I am almost certain that we will! if Air force is aganist this all he has to do is to appointe an new command structure. I dont think he cares much about the bill, logistics, maintenance or traning issues. Does it fly?

Create an auxillary force and recruit Azerbaijanis they know Russian Jets very well thats just my opinion no need to take it serious.

 

[CAN_TR]

Erdogan should not interfere and also not mix foreign policy in Military requirements.
KEEP politics out of TSK!!!!!

Is this the SU-57? Yes.
Does it fly? Yes, It will fly today.
Do we buy this ones? You can if you want.

He clearly has no clue about the topic.

 

[egolfs]

Erdogan should not interfere and also not mix foreign policy in Military requirements.
KEEP politics out of TSK!!!!!

Is this the SU-57? Yes.
Does it fly? Yes, It will fly today.
Do we buy this ones? You can if you want.

He clearly has no clue about the topic.

He was obviously joking. Sometimes humour is a necessity while conducting warm, friendly, Foreign Relations.

 

[Mithridates]

Create an auxillary force and recruit Azerbaijanis they know Russian Jets very well thats just my opinion no need to take it serious.

for pilots it does not matter that much.