Traitors...

[Secur]

Well, since the topic of traitors is trending in this country at the moment and the politicians are extra ordinarily active in getting the resolutions of "condemnations" approved from provincial assemblies. I would like to ask the reason for this yet again selective activeness, loathing and unity over treacherous statements and allegations of betrayal. There have been instances of other politicians saying more or less the same thing, in different tones maybe, at different times but the underlying message was same or well acting in manner detrimental to the country's interest. My simple question, should you choose to concentrate on the topic at hand without unnecessary rhetoric and long paragraphs reaffirming your love with the military and other political parties, is why exactly do the people of Pakistan and prestigious assemblies chose to keep quiet when they were doing it? Why exactly wasn't a single resolution passed either in provincial assemblies, national assembly and senate? And how exactly do you ask the Muhajirs to drop the "Muhajir" tag and become a Pakistani if you cant even treat them that way i.e with equality? Why is only Altaf Hussein bad even with half sarcasm and half drunk anger clearly visible?

 

[Secur]

Beginning with Imran Khan himself for causing billions in loss to the economy and reputation of Pakistan with his dharna politics and attack on PTV/ Pakistani parliament.

Imran Khan joins civil disobedience movement, burns power bill - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

ISLAMABAD: Fulfilling his promise to burn his electricity bill at the sit-in, PTI chief Imran Khan on Friday set fire to the errant piece of paper to deafening cheers from the crowd that had gathered there on Friday night at the PTI chief’s call to celebrate a ‘Day of Deliverance’.

Clashes erupted as protesters tried to march toward the Prime Minister's house. Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri claimed that the protest would remain peaceful, but protesters tried to force their way in. Police stepped back initially[94] but police began to throw tear gas after some time in their way.More than 500 including women, children and policemen were injured. People in this rage broke the fence of parliament house and entered there, but on order of Pakistan army people remained outside the building.

By 31 August, the government claimed economic losses directly resulting from the sit in were between Rs500 million and Rs800 million.[155] On 26 September, an adviser to the PM claimed the losses had run up to $6 billion (Rs610 billion)[156]
-Wiki

Telephonic conversation surfaces between Imran, Alvi over PTV attack | PAKISTAN - geo.tv
During the conversation Arif Alvi informs Imran Khan about the PTV attack and the shutting down of transmission. Imran Khan responds: “That is good, they deserve it.” “It is all a question of forcing Nawaz to resign,” Imran tells Alvi, adding that there needs to be pressure on Nawaz to resign before the joint session.

Feel free to add anyone you considered worthy of this thread.

Analysis: Why Jamaat discarded Munawar Hasan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
He obviously was referring to the sitting emir’s statement declaring TTP leader Hakimullah Mehsud, who was killed in a drone strike, a martyr. He didn’t stop there and argued that if an American who died on the battlefield was not a martyr how could those from among the Pakistan army fighting [the American war] be termed as martyrs.

 

[Gufi]

The past must be examined at a later time. For now there needs to be action on those who have anti State rhetoric, and being drunk or sarcastic is not an excuse for the head of a party.
Yes there needs to be a look into older statements as well but right now we are in a state of war. Whether it be Imran Khan and his statements or the ruling families, they all need to be questioned. And the word traitor should be applied to those who have ruled and not worked for the betterment of Pakistan, those who were corrupt and because of that our water reserves are not sufficient for the people, the silent oppositions who sat and let the country get looted, those who stood by while people died from droughts and famines, they are all enemies of the state.
But the MQM has a very active wing which has a death grip over a city and if there is an operation against certain part of MQM one must question is whether you stand with the armed forces or your party. What and whom do you trust? What is your objective, to have a safe Karachi or a Karachi which is present today.
Yes every party needs to be purged but in a systematic way. Karachi is the economic heart of Pakistan and thus it is the number one priority. Also the number of crimes in Karachi far exceeds any other city and the political, civilian operations have failed in the last 10 years to make things better.

And how exactly do you ask the Muhajirs to drop the "Muhajir" tag and become a Pakistani if you cant even treat them that way i.e with equality?

Because there needs to be sacrifice in the name of Pakistan, you wish the baloch drop their tags and live as Pakistanis you wish Kashmiris love Pakistan unconditionally and yet the tag for you seems more important. The tag will do no good for you, and it can cause lots of harm.

 

[Secur]

The past must be examined at a later time. For now there needs to be action on those who have anti State rhetoric, and being drunk or sarcastic is not an excuse for the head of a party.
Yes there needs to be a look into older statements as well but right now we are in a state of war. Whether it be Imran Khan and his statements or the ruling families, they all need to be questioned. And the word traitor should be applied to those who have ruled and not worked for the betterment of Pakistan, those who were corrupt and because of that our water reserves are not sufficient for the people, the silent oppositions who sat and let the country get looted, those who stood by while people died from droughts and famines, they are all enemies of the state.
But the MQM has a very active wing which has a death grip over a city and if there is an operation against certain part of MQM one must question is whether you stand with the armed forces or your party. What and whom do you trust? What is your objective, to have a safe Karachi or a Karachi which is present today.
Yes every party needs to be purged but in a systematic way. Karachi is the economic heart of Pakistan and thus it is the number one priority. Also the number of crimes in Karachi far exceeds any other city and the political, civilian operations have failed in the last 10 years to make things better.

The past must be examined now! Of course not, his statement was condemnable regardless of his situation and personal state and the assembly was right in adopting a resolution. That isn't the bone of contention, however all this happened in very recent past what I have posted here , yet not the political parties, their leaders nor the same assemblies adopted such resolution or ever showed the same level of condemnation mode? Whats the excuse there? These people are son of the soil? Aj sab Pakistani kaise bun gaye? MQM doesn't have an exclusive militant wing, that is shared by every single political/religious group in the city.

 

[Gufi]

The past must be examined now!

The past will be examined systematically, starting from Karachi, because like I said it is the heart of Pakistani business. But I agree totally that there needs to be an evaluation of everyone and I do not mean in distant future but within this year.

 

[Secur]

The past will be examined systematically, starting from Karachi, because like I said it is the heart of Pakistani business. But I agree totally that there needs to be an evaluation of everyone and I do not mean in distant future but within this year.

It must be but it wont be ever. Realistically speaking and you know it. People and politicians didn't care about these statements and actions back then and they dont now, it appears that all of them require an MQM in the threads name or news headline to take notice, all these fake displays of patriotism and anger come later.

 

[Musafir117]

I was going towards the points you raised here@Secur on my other thread, step by step as you mentioned here, watch how hatters turn down you valid questions according to their agenda. As some one said the past and present events bla bla a beautiful phrase for the situation " The Past is Never Dead, It's not even Past "
What AH did is past now as IK, K.Rasheed, Munnawar Hussain, Nawaz Sharif, Zardari did in past and if AH is traitors all above also traitors. Period

 

[TankMan]

is why exactly do the people of Pakistan and prestigious assemblies chose to keep quiet when they were doing it?

When 'they' were doing it, they didn't threaten the military and didn't tell their followers to take up arms against the state.

The difference between Altaf Hussain's speech and the other politicians' comments was the level of inflammatory content. ''Underlying tones'' don't matter as much as the fact that a party's leader just told thousands of his followers to arm and train themselves.

The videos and statements from other politicians shown above are allegations,criticisms, some insults and the stupid ''upset brothers'' justification for the Taliban. None of them was a direct threat to the military.

Altaf, on the other hand, gave direct threats by saying things like ''na tumhare dande rahein ge aur na tumhare stars''. (your sticks will not remain and neither will your stars [referring to military rank badges]) and ''dekhei ge kis ka khoon behta hai'' (we'll see whose blood is spilled).

 

[TankMan]

These people are son of the soil? MQM doesn't have an exclusive militant wing, that is shared by every single political/religious group in the city.

The 'sons of the soil' Peoples' Aman Committee and Lyari gangs were targeted the most in the recent operation. There is no excuse for politicians' incompetence and corruption but you must admit there is no difference in ethnicity or anything when it comes to that. All are equally corrupt or misguided, the biggest difference is how dangerous their corruption or misguided actions are.

As of now, MQM's militants are among the most dangerous. MQM should disown them and co-operate with an investigation. By lashing out at law-enforcement, they are leaving themselves especially vulnerable to media trials and criticism.

 

[Musafir117]

When 'they' were doing it, they didn't threaten the military and didn't tell their followers to take up arms against the state.

The difference between Altaf Hussain's speech and the other politicians' comments was the level of inflammatory content. ''Underlying tones'' don't matter as much as the fact that a party's leader just told thousands of his followers to arm and train themselves.

The videos and statements from other politicians shown above are allegations,criticisms, some insults and the stupid ''upset brothers'' justification for the Taliban. None of them was a direct threat to the military.

Altaf, on the other hand, gave direct threats by saying things like ''na tumhare dande rahein ge aur na tumhare stars''. (your sticks will not remain and neither will your stars [referring to military rank badges]) and ''dekhei ge kis ka khoon behta hai'' (we'll see whose blood is spilled).

Robbery is robbery be it for a dime or for million, isn't? The point OP raised is that treason charges also could applied also for mentioned politicians. And don't say please that they stole a dime not million like AH.

 

[TankMan]

@TankMan Is the argument now that as long as the military isn't involved, its not a problem? Is the definition of traitors modified in this country somehow? Even then, the phrases of blood will flow want aimed at the army but the Sindhi nationalists who had said something along the lines of "River Indus will redden if the talks of division of province don't stop".

No, the argument is that it is perfectly rational and expected that people will be more offended by a combination of direct threats, rabble-rousing, insults and criticisms in an inflammatory tone in a speech as opposed to only one or two of those in a talk show.

My argument has nothing to do with being addressed at the army or not. However that was a factor the ISPR would have taken into account when they criticized the speech. They might have left it to the politicians if some of it wasn't targeted at the military.

 

[rockstar08]

hahahahaha bring 20k people on streets , and General will piss in their pants ..

someone should tag General Raheel Shareef hahahahaha

On topic .. Traitors word is only reserved for Urdu speaking people , and this is a "Allmia " for Pakistan that when Bhutto's lead the division of Pakistan , they weren't called Traitors , when Nawaz Chant " Jang Punjab Jang " no body rise a Question about Pakistaniyat ? when Baloch leaders open deny to even be the part of Pakistan , no body raise a Question , and when Imran Khan say that our Army is killing Innocent People , blaming army for this WOT , and here yeah i would use the Ethnicity of Khwaja Asif , A Punjabi standing in assembly doing " Maa behn of Army " no body raised a Fcuking Voice ... but when Altaf Hussain , A mentally Retarded person living in Exile for decades , cant come to his Country because of fear said something , people become so mad ... why this double standard ...
yeah i know what some TT's here will say .. yeah everyone should be brought to justice blah blah but their words mean nothing ..

Traitor Traitors ... we are the worse enemies of our own Country ... we dont have any Threat from India .. they cant do Jack Sh!t about Pakistan ... but Pakistan has threat from its own People .. People like You and me ... we have no right to blame the Politicians when we are so Fcuking Divided that we cant even stand under one Flag for 10 mins without Fighting on Biryani ..
Jiye Bhutto
Sher Aya
Jiye Altaf
I I PTI ,
in bekar naaron pe hum pagal Kutton ki tarah streets pe a ker apas mai Lardte hai , Lakin Pakistan Zindabad ke Naare pe koi Stand kerne ko ready nai hai ...

MQM , PPPP , PMLN aur PTI ke flags ke taalay hum sab ek hai , lakin Pakistan ke Flag ki izzaat roz lootti hai Pakistan mai ...

Buhat dukh hota hai , Apne mulk ko is Halaat mai dekh ker , aur us se zaida Dukh yeh souch ke hota hai , ke ap kuch ker bhi nai sakte is mulk ko thek kerne ke liye ..
apne hi log , galay kaatne , bori mai band kerne , aur missing person banane mai tullay hue hai , tu phir bahar walo se kia shikayat keren ??

 

[Zarvan]

Well, since the topic of traitors is trending in this country at the moment and the politicians are extra ordinarily active in getting the resolutions of "condemnations" approved from provincial assemblies. I would like to ask the reason for this yet again selective activeness, loathing and unity over treacherous statements and allegations of betrayal. There have been instances of other politicians saying more or less the same thing, in different tones maybe, at different times but the underlying message was same or well acting in manner detrimental to the country's interest. My simple question, should you choose to concentrate on the topic at hand without unnecessary rhetoric and long paragraphs reaffirming your love with the military and other political parties, is why exactly do the people of Pakistan and prestigious assemblies chose to keep quiet when they were doing it? Why exactly wasn't a single resolution passed either in provincial assemblies, national assembly and senate? And how exactly do you ask the Muhajirs to drop the "Muhajir" tag and become a Pakistani if you cant even treat them that way i.e with equality? Why is only Altaf Hussein bad even with half sarcasm and half drunk anger clearly visible?

TTP are being killed most pathan they never cried that pathan thing more Muhajir live in Punjab proud Pakistanis and well established JI Karachi is full of Mohajirs they don't cry many many PTI Karachi is Mohajir they don't cry MQM since its creation is involved in murders and crimes and bhatta and now there links with RAW are getting exposed so I can understand your pain a secular party got exposed but this is just the begining entire MQM will be finished for good

 

[Secur]

@TankMan Is the argument now that as long as the military isn't involved or not "directly"
threatened, its not a problem? A lot of politicians have talked about military in a similar way, whats the excuse there? Is the definition of traitors modified in this country somehow? Even then, the phrases of blood will flow wasn't aimed at the army but the Sindhi nationalists who had said something along the lines of "River Indus will redden if the talks of division of province don't stop", might explain the physical training and arms point too. Nobody ever threatened to take up arms against the state but against those who threaten them, looking at the past how the army contingent played no role in stopping the massacre of Muhajirs in the city and silently gave way to mobs and then resealed the area once terrorists had passed once, its not so wrong. If the state wants not to protect or can't protect, let the citizens take control.

 

[TankMan]

Robbery is robbery be it for a dime or for million, isn't? The point OP raised is that treason charges also could applied also for mentioned politicians. And don't say please that they stole a dime not million like AH.

Nowhere in the world do people make as much noise about the robbery of a dime as they do about the robbery of a million.
Let me give you an analogy; In a developed country, when someone robs a dime, the law will charge that person with robbery and send a few officers to arrest him. But when someone robs a million, they will charge that person with robbery but make it a higher-profile case and allocate more resources to it.

Yes, treason can be applied for the mentioned politicians. But Altaf Hussain too has been ignored when he 'robbed a dime' before. No treason charges or condemning resolutions were passed when he made anti-Pakistan statements in a seminar in India. That was because he 'robbed a dime', just like the other politicians. But when, say, PAT or PTI 'robbed a million' by civil disobedience etc, they were criticized and labelled traitors, just like Altaf Hussain is being when he made an offence of similar magnitude.

If you want stricter rules, fair enough. But don't say that AH or MQM are being discriminated against, that is false.