Taiwan to retire Mirage 2000 early

[HAIDER]

Recently news in Taiwan revealed that the harsh environment and high operational tempo have put higher-than-expected tear and wear on Mirage 2000. Among all the problems, the faults on rotors in engines is the more severe. The ROCAF is now reducing training routing of Mirage 2000 to and flight hours is almost equivalent to total grounding of the fleet. High maintenance expenses is also a headache to ROCAF. The operational expenses of Mirage 2000 is roughly five times of F-16A/B and 3 times more than IDF. ROCAF is currently studying replacement for Mirage 2000, and may retire the fleet early or mothball most of the fleet.

Taiwan to retire Mirage 2000 early

 

[amunhotep]

french aircrafts are usually high maintenance, but the point is, if the mirages are retired early then who will take their place ???? I last heard that U.S.A is not going to sell taiwan upgraded F-16s .....

 

[araz]

Recently news in Taiwan revealed that the harsh environment and high operational tempo have put higher-than-expected tear and wear on Mirage 2000. Among all the problems, the faults on rotors in engines is the more severe. The ROCAF is now reducing training routing of Mirage 2000 to and flight hours is almost equivalent to total grounding of the fleet. High maintenance expenses is also a headache to ROCAF. The operational expenses of Mirage 2000 is roughly five times of F-16A/B and 3 times more than IDF. ROCAF is currently studying replacement for Mirage 2000, and may retire the fleet early or mothball most of the fleet.

Taiwan to retire Mirage 2000 early

this is an interesting development. IAF is not going to upgrade its M2Ks due to high cost and taiwan is now going to retire theirs earlier. We have earlier heard of indonesians refusing to accept Qatari M2Ks on grounds of being high maintenance. Members may remember that PAF has shown interest in M2Ks. it would be interesting to review this decision in light of recent developments. I had read earlier that mirages are more prone to getting rusty in salty environments, whereas F16s faired much better. While that statement was for 3s and 5s, the core problem remains common to all Mirages if this report is anything to go by. PAF has recently decided to go for J10s (as per news today) . Does this mean that M2Ks are out totally, or is PAF going to milk the french a bit more to get the money down. Even if Romania is interested in M2Ks, there are obviously more i n the market than there is a need.
Araz

 

[All-Green]

this is an interesting development. IAF is not going to upgrade its M2Ks due to high cost and taiwan is now going to retire theirs earlier. We have earlier heard of indonesians refusing to accept Qatari M2Ks on grounds of being high maintenance. Members may remember that PAF has shown interest in M2Ks. it would be interesting to review this decision in light of recent developments. I had read earlier that mirages are more prone to getting rusty in salty environments, whereas F16s faired much better. While that statement was for 3s and 5s, the core problem remains common to all Mirages if this report is anything to go by. PAF has recently decided to go for J10s (as per news today) . Does this mean that M2Ks are out totally, or is PAF going to milk the french a bit more to get thew money down. Even if Romania is interested in M2Ks, there are obviously more i n the market than there is a need.
Araz

That is spot on, the demand versus the numbers available makes for a good purchase scenario...provided there is confidence in the airframes...
I guess i am stating the obvious but with so many maintenance related issues it makes sense that PAF did not go for Mirage2ks.

However, if PAF wants to buy these planes to maintain a desired balance in wake of recent purchases in the region then the recent events and setbacks suffered by French regarding M2K will certainly help PAF in bargaining for a better deal with the French...If a Mirage2K rebuild setup can be made then that can auger well since Pakistan could be able to provide services to other countries as well...

If we had the cash, the ideal scenario would have been an ample purchase of Rafaels and M2Ks with enough number to have France help setup an M2K factory in Pakistan since the assembly line will close in France...However it is all about cash and we cannot simply afford all of this at the moment.

 

[fatman17]

^^^PAF is probably not interested because the ROCAF would want to sell all 60 a/c in one deal - on the other hand they may moth-ball for emergency use at some point.

 

[oct605032048]

whether to maintain these French fighters or get about 100 F16C/Ds will not make a great difference in the power balance between the Straight. the only choice for the republic to regain its superior to the people's republic is F35, but when they got F35, people's air force will already have their own 4th gen. fighters.

 

[MZUBAIR]

I think, there is no need for PAF to go for Mirage 2K.
Its getting obselete technology. besides that it has high maintenance cost.

PAF shld concentrate on JF-17 (50 Bomber, 100 Mulltirole, 100 Naval), get 100+ J-10B, 100 F-16 MLU and Block 52 (We are getting 60 MLU and 52 b3 2011). Besides we are already handling 80 Mirage ROSE and 55 F-7PG

Keep 30 Q5/A5 , 80 Mirage III for Navy.

I dont see any space for M2K in PAF. After few years (2020) Pak surely need for 5th generation fighters, so save money for them

 

[emotionless_teenage]

^^PAF is probably not interested because the ROCAF would want to sell all 60 a/c in one deal - on the other hand they may moth-ball for emergency use at some point.

even if they are interested i don't think the deal would go through.unless if pakistan want to create unnecessary tension with beijing.

 

[HAIDER]

One of reason ground Taiwan Mirage2000, because Pak bought French avionic for JF17, which are already installed in Taiwan Mirage2000. Which obviously neutralize the Taiwan Mirage capability. China will install and test these latest avionic in JF17.

 

[DavyJones]

Mirage 2000 - French are generally good with support and spares. IAF wanted mirage 2000 in the competition but Dassault fielded the Rafale instead. An excellent aircraft.
Maybe some French Chinese deal to deny Taiwan spares and help?

 

[Storm Force]

Those mirage 2000 in the Taiwanease Air force are at least one generation ahead of anything in the PAF operational today.

Infact i would argue that are the equal of both the Thunder/ and F16/52.

Their maintenance is the problem not the technology.

I also agree TAIWAN has it eyes on the F35 LGHTENING

 

[araz]

That is spot on, the demand versus the numbers available makes for a good purchase scenario...provided there is confidence in the airframes...
I guess i am stating the obvious but with so many maintenance related issues it makes sense that PAF did not go for Mirage2ks.

However, if PAF wants to buy these planes to maintain a desired balance in wake of recent purchases in the region then the recent events and setbacks suffered by French regarding M2K will certainly help PAF in bargaining for a better deal with the French...If a Mirage2K rebuild setup can be made then that can auger well since Pakistan could be able to provide services to other countries as well...

If we had the cash, the ideal scenario would have been an ample purchase of Rafaels and M2Ks with enough number to have France help setup an M2K factory in Pakistan since the assembly line will close in France...However it is all about cash and we cannot simply afford all of this at the moment.

All green
M2Kstill might have a place in PAF for 2 reasons. It remains a backup plan to be executed quickly in case the F16 deal went sour.We are now all talking about a fleet of roughly 100 F16s. However, if sanctions were imposed on us again, even with a fleet of 400 fighters a loss of 100 planes would be a crippling blow. Now if the price were right would it not make sense to spread the risk. We have a decent setup for the mirages and I think; although i maybe totally wrong in this , that it may be easily modifiable with some help to cater to the M2Ks. See it in light of a french avionics suite for Jf or J10 and sudddenly it starts making sense. However whether it might be better to concentrate on Rafale instead is a point worth pondering.
Secondly and most importantly, PAF has never really had the hi lo balance right. We have ended up using F16s and J10s as our hi end aircrafgts but their parentcountries would use them as lo end. Of the single engined aircraft, the only one suitable for hi end sorties is M2K because of its engine and delta configuration. It is with this reason in mind and the fact that j11 is currently not available to us that I think we might have a place for m2K
incidentally, IIRC, the M2K assembly line went dead in 2005, so ther isa no need to have the assembly line here as it would be a waste. However a joint buy with UAE and Qatar with a contract facility for repairs and servicing in Pakistan for their planes plus even helping out with flying in exchange for some help in procurement if it can be worked out might be a good way to go for rafale post 2015.
Araz

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I think that there is more to the picture than what meets the eye---it is not possible that the most reliable i one air force becomes a very high maintenance aircraft for the other---as the maintenance goes up, the reliability goes down---comparison IAF very happy with M2K's----.

Taiwan Af must have its own reasons and this maint issue is just a smoke screen for the general public---.

With mainland Plaaf getting compatible with the taiwan af---the taiwanese want something better the F 35---which would take them to a different league---.

A\Around 50 M2k's with upgrades of M2k---9 would be an extremely potent force----as far as maintenance is concerned---paf has done a great job with any and every aircraft that had been in its service---so, that would not be a serious issue.

 

[mshoaib61]

The Taiwan defence ministry will consider a proposal to scrap the air force's Mirage 200 jets from service or seal and store part of the fleet, according to Minister of National Defense Kao Hua-chu.

The air force's budget for 2010 shows that the operation and maintenance cost of the Mirage 2000 is earmarked at about $24,840 a flight hour.

In comparison, it costs about $4,937 a flight hour to fly the nation's F-16 fighters and $7,715 a flight hour for the country's self-developed indigenous defence fighters.

The air force ordered 60 Mirage jets in 1992, the first squadron of which came into service in December 1997. Currently, 57 of the planes are still in service.

Inspite of the jet's capabilities, the fighter has not been able to achieve operational availability due to the high cost of parts and components and relevant technical maintenance problems, Taiwan Daily reports.

The seal and store measure that is currently being adopted by the air force will allow for temporary bypassing of routine checks of the aircraft, saving costs by reducing man-hours.

Source:http://www.airforce-technology.com/news/news67914.html


Taiwan Airforce Mirage 2000