Should PAF be looking at EJ200 for Thunder

[Donatello]

Hi,

The first 30 to 60 days were the most crucial after their escape from afg---that was the time if he was wiped out alongwith all his troops and any pakistani going across the border to fight jihad declared enemy of the stae ( pakistan ) and summarily executed for treason.

U S has not found him due to other reasons---.

You are mistaken about the american policy of jihad and driving russians out of afg---.

My good kid----it was not the americans entrapping us----it was us pakistanis who trapped america in afg---america didnot want to get involved---all the intelligence analysis led them to believe that the russian ingress would only stay local and won't change the balance of power.

We played the trick on america and made them believe what was not true.
That is one of the reasons the americans left when they did.

Nobody is saying they entrapped us. The whole process as it sorted out in a span of 10 years led to us being entrapped. For the fact American doesn't border Afghanistan so they don't care what happens. Pakistan does border Afghanistan and that changed whole of things.


Also, why have they not found OBL...for other reasons? Care to elaborate?


With recent NATO strikes going nowhere but Pakistani soldiers, tells us how much they really know who they really are fighting.

We must spend money on infrastructure, security, justice and education.

...and kick the politicians out.

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

penumbra your post : "With recent NATO strikes going nowhere but Pakistani soldiers, tells us how much they really know who they really are fighting.

We must spend money on infrastructure, security, justice and education.

...and kick the politicians out. "
penumbra dear you just have given a total solution for our problems .. you have posted a constructive comment with a sense of real patriotism for our PakisTan .. keep it up..

 

[Hassan Guy]

They could go for the Eurojet EJ2000 for JF-17 Block 3, considering the status of the WS-13 .

 

[Sully3]

They could go for the Eurojet EJ2000 for JF-17 Block 3, considering the status of the WS-13 .

the saudis are very keen to get the ef2000 engine on the jf17's as they already operate them on the typhoons.

the ef2000 engine is good for money rich countries like KSA and Qatar as they can afford to have such engine in small numbers for their future jf17's. PAF can't switch to the ef2000 engine because it brings cost of the fighters considerably higher.

 

[Hassan Guy]

the saudis are very keen to get the ef2000 engine on the jf17's as they already operate them on the typhoons.

the ef2000 engine is good for money rich countries like KSA and Qatar as they can afford to have such engine in small numbers for their future jf17's. PAF can't switch to the ef2000 engine because it brings cost of the fighters considerably higher.

How much more is it then an RD-33MK?

 

[SBD-3]

Why do some people have a fetish of digging out dead threads?

 

[Naif al Hilali]

Technically there is no such thing as a supercruise engine, meaning you might not acheive supercruise if those same EJ-200's were placed, for example, on a Jaguar. There are several things that need to happen in order to achieve supercruise, and those would be, acheive a high level of dry thrust and have aerodynamics that are optimal for sigh speeds, low drag.

Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

Not as much aerodynamics-related - of course, you need a supersonic capable wing and airframe.

You need a turbojet or very low-bypass (0.2) turbofan first, with the proper metallurgy and temperature handling ability.

Proper inlets second.

Very high dry thrust lets you explore more of the beyond Mach 1 speed envelope (relatively easier once you get past Mach 1.2) but the levels needed are not as much as people think.

Regards

 

[FuturePAF]

(Zombie Thread)
Any update on if the EJ-200 is being considered for the JF-17 Block 3?

 

[Basel]

(Zombie Thread)
Any update on if the EJ-200 is being considered for the JF-17 Block 3?

It was available but it doesn't look that PAF will go that way, possibly new Chinese engine or latest version of RD-93 from Russia, if PAF wants to change or upgrade engine of JFT.

But EJ-230 with TVC (upgrade version for TFX) could be ideal for Pakistani 5th gen bird.

 

[Imran Khan]

why PAF need new engine first place ?

 

[FuturePAF]

why PAF need new engine first place ?

Export order to nations operating the Eurofighter like Saudi Arabia (or Kuwait, Qatar, Oman): to be flown by Pakistani Pilots or Saudi Pilots in the defense of that nation, and to be a lower cost platform for workhorse missions. The Saudi Finances aren't what they use to be and Pakistan can market the JF-17 as meeting their new needs of affordability (as well as a sizable defense deal with China/Pakistan; these weapons deal get the Saudis more influences/support)

We get the engines as well to improve the performance of our own jets, and money for making JF-17s for the Saudis; same deal for the Chinese (which is where it gets tricky)

The Europeans would love to make money on the deal, but other nations may not like the ToT inherent in sales of the most modern engines.

 

[Shabi1]

Looking at the engine, this does not look like something that could fit on a single engine aircraft without modifications. RD-93MA is coming up mid next year, best not waste efforts on asking RR to develop a custom version for us.

Saudi´s if they want to buy JFT will have to be the standard Block-3 variant, no use spending extra on them since they like to buy American. JFT is foremost a project for Pakistan, export orders are secondary bonus´s.

 

[Basel]

Looking at the engine, this does not look like something that could fit on a single engine aircraft without modifications. RD-93MA is coming up mid next year, best not waste efforts on asking RR to develop a custom version for us.

Saudi´s if they want to buy JFT will have to be the standard Block-3 variant, no use spending extra on them since they like to buy American. JFT is foremost a project for Pakistan, export orders are secondary bonus´s.

EJ-200 can be tweaked for single engine bird as Russia did with RD-33 of Mig-29.

The thing is EJ-200 has more life then JFT it self, its more reliable and much less maintenance is needed, but all its benefits has their cost too.

 

[Shabi1]

EJ-200 can be tweaked for single engine bird as Russia did with RD-33 of Mig-29.

The thing is EJ-200 has more life then JFT it self, its more reliable and much less maintenance is needed, but all its benefits has their cost too.

But engine development is not easy and rule of thumb is twice the cost/ twice the time compared with air frame development. Even simple mods takes years to implement.

Ive been searching but all I could find is EJ-200 has life of 2000hrs. Can anyone do a search and advise if they find a better number as it is usually quoted western engines have twice the life compared to rest. RD-93 in PAF service is uprated so its down to 2200hrs from 4000hrs. RD-93MA/RD-33MA is expected to be at 4000hrs while retaining enhanced thrust. Plus weight of both WS-13E and RD-93MA are expected to come down to EJ-200 range.
So can safely assume there is no more benefit in EJ-200 compared to RD-93MA. Only spec left is fuel consumption but that is something a expert can evaluate better.

 

[FuturePAF]

EJ-200 can be tweaked for single engine bird as Russia did with RD-33 of Mig-29.

The thing is EJ-200 has more life then JFT it self, its more reliable and much less maintenance is needed, but all its benefits has their cost too.

The Reliability/longer life, Supercruise capability, Quick startup time, and room for growth are all reasons Pakistan should look into getting the EJ-200 or a derivative variant such as the EJ-230.

Supercruise for instance can not only allow Fighters to fly supersonically without afterburners, but higher sub-sonic patrol speeds for longer and therefore further, decreasing the need to land and refuel as often, and decreasing the logistics needed to maintain the same level of readiness.

The Ej-200/230 for Saudi and a limited number of PAF JF-17s, as a stop gap until the WS-13 matures and can provide the same level of capabilities. in that time we learn with mostly export jets.