Lesson for PAF TT/Decision makers

[MastanKhan]

Gripen is a whole new story, still better agility, avionics, EW suite, radar, Yes if we replace JF-17 with Gripens still there is need for Heavy or medium category fighters.

Number of hard-points have to do with more A2A missiles a jamming pod, precision guided bombs.
What will you do when you have to engage multiple bandits. You'll think twice while firing a missile you'll have to conserve weapons.

In BVR combat you are not 100% sure your missile is gonna hit the mark you'll give your position and end up in dog fight OR when you have to defend against incoming missiles how do you gonna do that with low agile jet.
Tell me if BVR missile always hit the target..

F-16, Rafael, EFT can outgun JF-17 because they carry more deadly arsenal.

Hi,

There is no guarantee that a wvr missile would hit the target either---.

Your agility is not going to do much if the missile has a proximity fuse---.

The need for a medium or a hwy fighter is there but it does not mean that they negate the utility of a light fighter---.

Gripen has nothing extraordinary to a comparable BLK 2 JF17---.

Our enemy has M2k's SU30's MIG29's ---. We compete against them and not the F16 and the Typhoon.

When they get their new aircraft we will also have a new aircraft.

11 hard points loaded F16 has barely 5 G capability---.

Alot depends on what you are carrying---.

Checkout the comments on this link---specially the last one

https://www.key.aero/forum/modern-military-aviation/130405-g-limits-on-f-15-and-f-16

 

[DHSquare]

The options that are available for PAF JF-17 is the best option for "cheap" fighter. PAF cant afford 200+ Gripens or even F-16s.

Atleast increase production lines PAF!

Relying on jf17s with AESA, EW as well as BVR capabilities is understandable due to proximity of the primary enemy. Fine.

But then not inducting in numbers QUICKLY for deicated roles again minimizes whatever lil' leverage v might have with jf17s in the 1st place!!

Remember even this lil' window of leverage for Jeffs is fast eroding.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Hi,

There is no guarantee that a wvr missile would hit the target either---.

Your agility is not going to do much if the missile has a proximity fuse---.

The need for a medium or a hwy fighter is there but it does not mean that they negate the utility of a light fighter---.

Gripen has nothing extraordinary to a comparable BLK 2 JF17---.

Our enemy has M2k's SU30's MIG29's ---. We compete against them and not the F16 and the Typhoon.

When they get their new aircraft we will also have a new aircraft.

11 hard points loaded F16 has barely 5 G capability---.

Alot depends on what you are carrying---.

Checkout the comments on this link---specially the last one

https://www.key.aero/forum/modern-military-aviation/130405-g-limits-on-f-15-and-f-16

Thanks for enlightening me about WVR has no guarantee of hitting targets.

Yes agility has to with this. Missiles don't take sharp turns and don't follow you everywhere. In BVR fights As soon as you have missile/radar warning you drop your nose lose altitude and couple of sharp turns. Voila missile is dodged its not Enemy Behind lines or Sherdil s**** going on. In WVR Sharp turns and Flares are your best friend.

JF-17 Block 2 is better than Gripen. My man you are right.

SU-30 is one of the best fighters in the world. Yet here you saying it nothing.

They bought M-2000, Su-30, Mig-29, Rafaele, P-8i, C-17, CH-47s and MH-60 deal's been signed. Question is where are our new aircrafts to fill the vacuum.

11 hard-points are just for show right. They don't have their purpose.

 

[MastanKhan]

Thanks for enlightening me about WVR has no guarantee of hitting targets.

Yes agility has to with this. Missiles don't take sharp turns and don't follow you everywhere. In BVR fights As soon as you have missile/radar warning you drop your nose lose altitude and couple of sharp turns. Voila missile is dodged its not Enemy Behind lines or Sherdil s**** going on. In WVR Sharp turns and Flares are your best friend.

JF-17 Block 2 is better than Gripen. My man you are right.

SU-30 is one of the best fighters in the world. Yet here you saying it nothing.

They bought M-2000, Su-30, Mig-29, Rafaele, P-8i, C-17, CH-47s and MH-60 deal's been signed. Question is where are our new aircrafts to fill the vacuum.

11 hard-points are just for show right. They don't have their purpose.

Hi,

You should avoid SELECTIVE READING---. I respond to you because you are a pakistani---maybe you might learn something---.

"Gripen has nothing extraordinary to a comparable BLK 2 JF17---" my quote.

I understand that english may not be your mother tongue---JF17 BLK2 is comparable to a COMPARABLE GRIPEN which would be a Gripen C/D---remember the word COMPARABLE---means similar in characteristics---.

Indeed SU30 is a great aircraft and I have praised that aircraft since you were running around in diapers---but the JF17 BLK 2 is no slouch either at BVR ranges---.

So---in what scenario of air combat would you be using your 11 Hard points on your medium duty aircraft---.

 

[Nomad40]

Brother for me JF is an ordinary absolute ordinary aircraft but for PAF fanboys and for many, JF is basically raptor's competitor. I've already mentioned in my post the reason of JF17's induction.

jf-17 is much more than you think it is. Open your tiny little brain and look into the concept of the Jf-17.

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

You should avoid SELECTIVE READING---. I respond to you because you are a pakistani---maybe you might learn something---.

"Gripen has nothing extraordinary to a comparable BLK 2 JF17---" my quote.

I understand that english may not be your mother tongue---JF17 BLK2 is comparable to a COMPARABLE GRIPEN which would be a Gripen C/D---remember the word COMPARABLE---means similar in characteristics---.

Indeed SU30 is a great aircraft and I have praised that aircraft since you were running around in diapers---but the JF17 BLK 2 is no slouch either at BVR ranges---.

So---in what scenario of air combat would you be using your 11 Hard points on your medium duty aircraft---.

Good post regarding selective reading. A reminder, you're a Pakistani too. Next time one of us will highlight that to you too, after all the goal is to teach and berate one another from your knowledge.

 

[MastanKhan]

Good post regarding selective reading. A reminder, you're a Pakistani too. Next time one of us will highlight that to you too, after all the goal is to teach and berate one another from your knowledge.

Hi,

Yahan Tangiay qafas hai
Wahan Fikray ashiana
Na yahan Mera thikana
Na wahan Mera Thikana

 

[Genghis khan1]

I think PAF knows what the are doing, specially with budgetary limitations.

1. Building numbers.
2. Potent BVR missiles.
3. Small jet with features to reduce RCS.

Now what can further be done :
1. Add more composite to Increase thrust to weight ratio (At min 1.1) and reduce Rader signature. 2. Add some angle on critical points to further reduce the Rader signature. 3. Add more numbers.

Agility and speed is required to dodge incoming missile and WVR fight.

Low RCS is required for JF-17 to creep up close enough to shoot First, within no escape zone of the missile.

IAF can acquire any 4++ fighter, but the day they will see a wall of PAF lightweight Ninja, armed with a big stick penetrating their defense lines. Best of Luck.. Best of luck engaging them all.

Good Mediums class Figures can and should supplement JF-17. But what PAF really needs is to cover the Indian land mass. They need double engine beast to do Naval an deep strike missions.

 

[Imran Khan]

The options that are available for PAF JF-17 is the best option for "cheap" fighter. PAF cant afford 200+ Gripens or even F-16s.

in fact PAF have to replace some 400 fighter jets with thunders sir . do you forget A-5 we were using before thunders ?

 

[Arsalan 345]

i don't agree. we have complex relations with USA. Pakistan might be fighting a war anytime if USA wants. USA wants India to react. they are providing weapons to India and they don't want Indians to use it against Pakistan but against china. it's like you raise a kid and now you want him to fight a professional. India knows what's going on. India wants guarantees from USA. they want destruction of Pakistan. Lockheed martin is a reputable company. it doesn't share data with other users.
We are in this situation just because of our own mistakes. We need Modern radars as well. more Indian air intrusion is a real possibility. we should buy j-10 on emergency basis. We don't have long range bombers. our policy is defensive. we must change our mindset. they are ready to bomb us. we should think about going deep inside India. Rafale will be a game changer. they already have a satellite for specific purpose. can they fool our radars? we must show progress in electronic warfare. it's necessary now.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

It’s the best bang for buck we have at the moment. It’s not perfect in the way that we want but it’s what we have to contend with and the brass is seemingly happy with its designed roles. Secondly, diverting funds at the time was the need of the hour. You had a calamity and you needed everything to help the people recover from it.

 

[MastanKhan]

We seem to be caught in a trap of indigenous programs. Everything should be in balance. Indigenous programs should never stop you from buying other stuff.

At this point PAF needs front line medium weight jets or even off the shelf light fighters to bring the disparity down.
But if this is not possible and PAF has made its mind to simply weight for the JFTs to roll out than lets hope PAF is acquiring HQ-9B or at least HQ-22.

Hi,

Enjoy this video at 31:25---critical information

 

[StormBreaker]

Hi,

Enjoy this video at 31:25---critical information

Could be poor knowledge as well, In easy words, Blabbering.

I wouldn’t deny it either...

 

[Nomad40]

Hi,

Yahan Tangiay qafas hai
Wahan Fikray ashiana
Na yahan Mera thikana
Na wahan Mera Thikana

Bhai sahab thikanay dilou me houti ap jaga dugay tu agla bhi jaga banayega.

 

[MastanKhan]

Bhai sahab thikanay dilou me houti ap jaga dugay tu agla bhi jaga banayega.

Hi,

You are a young man---you won't understand it---.