Plans to harass and crush Pak army from multiple sides- such plans likely to fail

[FaujHistorian]

You still did not answer the question.

What is that, Pakistan exporting at its borders...that 3 out of 4 her neighbors are having resort to violence on her borders and yet the fourth one is complaining ?

1. Sialkot working boundary with Indian
------------ No export at all. Zero Zilch nada

2. Angor Ada clash
----------- No export. Just building a forking border post so as to check the flow across the border with afghanistan.

3. Panjgor clash
------ Iran has a HUGE problem in Sistan province. Their internal issue. They have hanged 100s of 1000s of Balochis in their part of country. If the problem is still there, how is Pakistan EXPORTING it.



As I said, your poor understanding of geography is contributing to poor analysis. Sorry to say.

Socio-political in this region has its roots in history. @FaujHistorian is right. Every cause of instability, ranging from ethnic nationalism to sectarian divide, has its roots in history, and it is this instability that eventually leads to Martial Law.

Martial Law was never the cause or root of problems, it was always the result of multiple problems and destabilizing events occurring at the same time. It was always an effect, not a cause.

Granted, some elements within the military may, at some point in time, have been misguided or fallen prey to a hunger for power, but the situation always provided them with an opportunity and a level of justification.

Geopolitical analyses are not conspiracy theories. This trend of labeling anything you disagree as a conspiracy theory is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest way of dismissing legitimate arguments.

Our introspection is none of your business. We do more than enough introspection. Certainly more than you people do. But we will not bash ourselves. We still have self respect, no matter how much that upsets you Indians. Maybe when some of your Bharti hypocrites start doing some actual introspection instead of blaming everything from rapes to a lack of toilets on the ISI, we'll start taking your ''advice'' seriously.

Thank you bhai jaan

So many posters have no idea about geography or history

And they quickly become the Doctors and Professors of Pakistani issues. Sadly.

 

[utraash]

Socio-political in this region has its roots in history. @FaujHistorian is right. Every cause of instability, ranging from ethnic nationalism to sectarian divide, has its roots in history, and it is this instability that eventually leads to Martial Law.

Martial Law was never the cause or root of problems, it was always the result of multiple problems and destabilizing events occurring at the same time. It was always an effect, not a cause.

Granted, some elements within the military may, at some point in time, have been misguided or fallen prey to a hunger for power, but the situation always provided them with an opportunity and a level of justification.

Geopolitical analyses are not conspiracy theories. This trend of labeling anything you disagree as a conspiracy theory is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest way of dismissing legitimate arguments.

Our introspection is none of your business. We do more than enough introspection. Certainly more than you people do. But we will not bash ourselves. We still have self respect, no matter how much that upsets you Indians. Maybe when some of your Bharti hypocrites start doing some actual introspection instead of blaming everything from rapes to a lack of toilets on the ISI, we'll start taking your ''advice'' seriously.

Conspiracy theories are sold to deviate the masses from actual root cause being complicit on the issue .... Same is the case with Pakistan your own complicit policy on terrorism has created more mayhem inside Pakistan then elsewhere..... I thought some lessons would be learnt by Pakistan especially aftermath of Peshawar but again same theory purported (good terrorists vs bad terrorists) n killing a bad terrorists is celebrated like victory over India however after the Peshawar Indians with genuine solidarity echoed ruthless extermination of those scums ....
We are not alien to "Geopolitical adventure" as you tried to portrayed in your post ... But let me tell straight if we wanted to tame Pakistan at this time(weakest time) we could have kept you deeply engaged in western front but we didn't except some sporadic cross border firing from both sides....
Now as for your last sentence just show us any post of Indians blaming Isi for rapes or toilet, I would condemn that post in harshest tone without being any conspiracy seller here... Btw you should check what is trending Pakistan these days .... Do I need to tag you in that thread.... ?
Thanks ....

 

[VCheng]

Socio-political in this region has its roots in history.

...... as well as as every part of the world. But to use history over centuries as a rationale for justifying Martial Law is pretty pathetic, whichever way one looks at it.

 

[illusion8]

your thoughts are stuck in a period long time ago.

OK, lets assume it is - and pakistan miraculously has got rid of all these terrorist groups and there are no more cross border terrorist activities from Pakistani territory into it's neighbors territories. There are no more taliban and haqqanis, no more sunni extremist groups targeting shias and Iran, no more punjabi militants targeting Kashmir. Lets assume that Pakistani terrorists operating out of Pakistan into its neighoring countries are figments of imagination of all of Pakistan's neighbors.

What you need to mention is the reason why pakistan's neighbors are hell bent on harassing the great Pak fauj?

Is there any mysterious strategic gain that's awaiting Pak fauj's enemies?

or, all three nations are psychotic and plain raving mad to try to bomb the "peaceful" Pakistani's?

The whole neighborhood's narrative that Pakistan is perpetrating terrorism in the region is a hoax? and all three good for nothing nation's excluding the US which has deployed considerable assets including drones against pakistan, have malicious intents towards the great pak fauj and the great country of Pakistan? please provide a simple reason - why?.

btw Pakistan is the only nation apart from Syria that is at loggerheads and with hot borders from 3 sides. Must be something wrong with all of Pakistan's crazy neighbors.

The saying from one of Afghanistan's think tank comes to mind - "Pak fauj needs to maintain a degree of instability in the region to maintain it's vice grip on pakistani's and on Pakistan on the whole, and this they achieve with the help of it's proxies and it's groups". I am sure you will not give a thought to that statement.

 

[TankMan]

Conspiracy theories are sold to deviate the masses from actual root cause being complicit on the issue .... Same is the case with Pakistan your own complicit policy on terrorism has created more mayhem inside Pakistan then elsewhere..... I thought some lessons would be learnt by Pakistan especially aftermath of Peshawar but again same theory purported (good terrorists vs bad terrorists) n killing a bad terrorists is celebrated like victory over India however after the Peshawar Indians with genuine solidarity echoed ruthless extermination of those scums ....
We are not alien to "Geopolitical adventure" as you tried to portrayed in your post ... But let me tell straight if we wanted to tame Pakistan at this time(weakest time) we could have kept you deeply engaged in western front but we didn't except some sporadic cross border firing from both sides....
Now as for your last sentence just show us any post of Indians blaming Isi for rapes or toilet, I would condemn that post in harshest tone without being any conspiracy seller here... Btw you should check what is trending Pakistan these days .... Do I need to tag you in that thread.... ?
Thanks ....

Don't peddle this propaganda about a complicit policy with terrorism. That is nothing more than a pot calling the kettle black type of propaganda. India has had a complicity policy with terrorism for decades - you people are in no position to lecture us with such facile nonsensical arguments.

First of all, terrorism is not defined properly anywhere. The use of proxy warfare has become a staple in the modern world. It's ''supporting freedom fighters'' when one particular side does it but ''terrorism'' when another does it.

We've heard enough of this bull about ''good terrorist and bad terrorist'', it is utterly senseless and holds absolutely no weight. There has never been an argument about terrorists being ''good'', the argument always was ''what exactly qualifies as terrorism?'' and ''where do we draw a line between freedom fighting and terrorism?'', two points which nobody, not Indian sanctimonious hypocrites and not the ever-wise ''International community'', has ever agreed upon.

You are utterly mistaken if you so foolishly believe you have any moral high ground as compared to me or any other Pakistani.

I've argued this exact point with many of you Indian propagandist parrots about India's ''geopolitical adventures'' with militant groups, and the responses are usually along the lines of ''others do it more'' or ''the Baloch terrorists are just freedom fighters'' or ''the LTTE was not officially a terrorist group when we supported them, even when they mass-murdered civilians, so we're somehow right to have supported them''.

I won't waste my time dealing with that nonsense again.

As for India's ISI conspiracy theories, there's plenty of those around. Some more, for your pleasure. These were off the top of my head, I'm sure a few minutes of searching will produce a good amount of material for you to condemn in the harshest tone.

...... as well as as every part of the world. But to use history over centuries as a rationale for justifying Martial Law is pretty pathetic, whichever way one looks at it.

All over the world,yes, but not at this level. Tensions in the West, for example, eventually reached a climax point at WW2 and the subsequent cold war, and then subsided towards the end of the cold war. Tensions in Asia and the Middle East are currently approaching peak levels, after which we can expect them to recede, but not immediately.

This argument is not being used to justify Martial Law, it is being used to explain it. But if we were to try and justify it, that isn't hard at all, simply because of the fact that ''divine democracy'' has major weaknesses, weaknesses which are most dangerous in developing countries such as Pakistan. It is very easy to argue that Martial Law was necessary, because like I said, Martial Law is generally not a cause. It is an effect.

But I won't argue that because it is pointless and irrelevant to today's situation, where martial law certainly isn't necessary and the only way forward is the strengthening of civil institutions and the gradual detachment of the Army from internal political matters - two things the current Army leadership understands and has made among its top priorities.

I am fully in favour of learning from past mistakes but am completely against dwelling on the past, which is what we'll be doing if we repeat the same old debate that has been repeated ad nauseam .

 

[Zhukov]

Buddy if these Attacks becomes Coordinated ones in different Sectors of our Borders this would indeed become a headache so things like these cant be ignored either.
They could be use for Distraction against our Counter Terrorism Measures against TTP and Baluch Insurgents.

Yes DISTRACTION. Thats more appropriate word

 

[VCheng]

All over the world,yes, but not at this level. Tensions in the West, for example, eventually reached a climax point at WW2 and the subsequent cold war, and then subsided towards the end of the cold war. Tensions in Asia and the Middle East are currently approaching peak levels, after which we can expect them to recede, but not immediately.

This argument is not being used to justify Martial Law, it is being used to explain it.

These are useless excuses. Where else in the world today does anybody try to justify or even explain the need for dictatorship based on hundreds of years of history?

But, like you said, it is it is pointless and irrelevant to attempt to do so, and I agree that it is better to move on rather than look back in this context.