Achilles heel of Pakistan Army (Gen. Sharif)

[Silverblaze]

External threats include a possibility of a limited conventional war with India. Furthermore, civil war in Afghanistan might also be a dangerous possibility.

One more external threat could be the posture of the US establishment which frankly does not like Pakistan. US officials who served in Afghanistan are no friends of Pakistan. Iran could also interfere to a small extent.

Internal threats include, rise of religious extremism supported by parties like JI and JUI.
Furthermore, the perception of discrimination against the smaller provinces is also something that should be watched.

Solution is to have a very positive relationship with Iran, Afghanistan and to some extent with the US to minimize the external perils, while at home an unbiased approach is needed.

 

[Faiez]

Army is just the security staff.....get over it people. They are workers like any other workers, they get paid for what ever they do. If a democratically elected gov. wants to fire the head of security (COAS), it has the right to do so. People here think of army as something above pakistan. The west is right when it says that pakistani army is the only army that has it's own country.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You spent so much time in writing this wonderful analysis. But somewhere you ignored some SERIOUS key points:

1) 1-D: NS: You think NS is a threat to the Army? You are sadly mistaken. It is NS's government who's authorized the military to go take care of terrorists cleanup inside Pakistan. And that the civilian government would arrange for weapons and funding, however they have to manage it (more than likely, by taking a hit on some part of the budget or the GDP growth).

You think supporting wars is easy or the military has supermen who don't need weapons, food, jet fuel or fuel for tanks, or don't have families at home waiting for them to send them earnings, so their children's fees and the household expenses can be paid? Who is providing for ALL that? It is the civilian government.

Also, when the Army is sent against the internal threats aka, political militias like the MQM....who do you think tackles the internal blame game??? Its the Civilian government who'd provide military the internal support it needs and will go fight the political drama on media, in supreme courts and all that, and who'd cover for any mistakes made in operations like collateral damage and all.

You think the Pakistani military or any other military can handle all these sides? NO, they can only run operations till when the funding is provided. No fuel, no tank runs.... No money, no honey!!!

2) Pakistan's Economy: Which general has done anything pragmatic to grow Pakistan's economy???? Over the past 50 years, these generals haven't been able to build a second highway system inside Pakistan. The Grand Trunk road was built in the British era and that's it. So you think the Economy is a challenge that the "military" has to face or resolve?

The Economy is STRICTLY a Civilian Government's challenge and they are already working on dealing with it with great progress. AND supporting billions of dollars worth of military ops to stabilize Pakistan and get rid of the evil of terrorism!!!

The point I am trying to make is that Pakistan is now a growing country. These ideas and thoughts of 1990's and 2000's that the Army is all the institutions and the systems needed for Pakistan, need to be buried in a box and thrown into the ocean. At this point, the military and the civilians are working together FOR PAKISTAN, and that's the future of Pakistan.

A modern power, growing economy works with all its institutions working together and in harmony and full synch. That is where Pakistan is today too and it has become a great example of military and civilian rule through a system. Both Gen. Raheel and NS have a great and committed relationship. NS is growing the economy, Gen. Raheel is taking care of establishing law, peace and security from evil terrorists. Combined it means a healthy, modern, safe and economically growing Pakistan.

Thank you @Viper0011. bhai jaan

you nailed it.

While writing the OP, I was kind of struggling to put very similar thoughts in it. Then I cut some of the stuff out to focus on the "Achilles heel" from military perspective only.

I too believe that Swat operation without PPP/ANP support, and NWA ops without PMLN/ANP support would not have been a quick success.

When it comes to contributions towards integrity of Pakistan, no one should ignore ANP's political support AND tremendous sacrifices they have made in order to protect KP and FATA.

PMLN and PTI both had their reservations going all out militarily against Talib-astards.

I blame "lack of knowledge" about military history on part of Immi Khan and NS and even Kiyani.

Until Gen. Sharif became top commander, many big wigs in Pakistan were living in 1971. I'll elaborate further in a different essay.

All these comments aside, you have made very good points and one must not ignore them.

So I thank you again for your response.

Best regards

 

[Viper0011.]

Thank you @Viper0011. bhai jaan

you nailed it.

While writing the OP, I was kind of struggling to put very similar thoughts in it. Then I cut some of the stuff out to focus on the "Achilles heel" from military perspective only.

I too believe that Swat operation without PPP/ANP support, and NWA ops without PMLN/ANP support would not have been a quick success.

When it comes to contributions towards integrity of Pakistan, no one should ignore ANP's political support AND tremendous sacrifices they have made in order to protect KP and FATA.

PMLN and PTI both had their reservations going all out militarily against Talib-astards.

I blame "lack of knowledge" about military history on part of Immi Khan and NS and even Kiyani.

Until Gen. Sharif became top commander, many big wigs in Pakistan were living in 1971. I'll elaborate further in a different essay.

All these comments aside, you have made very good points and one must not ignore them.

So I thank you again for your response.

Best regards

You are very welcome. I just want to see Pakistan grow and become a regional power. With a 1.5 to 3 Trillion economy, NO ONE in the ENTIRE globe will have the balls to look at Pakistan with wrong attitude. That's where I want it to go. It has over 60 million young men between the ages of 16-22, the highest male population able to work. This ALONE if labor trained and provided correctly, can turn the tide of Pakistan's economy, add the CPEC and the new relationships Pakistan is forming, the 6th largest population has the potential to one day become the 10th Largest economy. With advanced defense production capabilities in house, without the need to borrow or finance money to buy advance weapons or equipment for research, trade and business.

All of the above will happen when ALL Pakistanis will put their difference aside and work for Pakistan, like the Indians have been doing for two decades. Pakistanis have to support their system, ignore political issues and work in synch. Also, Pakistanis need to throw the 80's and 90's politics out of their head and into some river. The military, the civilians and everyone else are working together.

Pakistan is the name of a country and a working SYSTEM. Where different parties, the military the civilian government ALL exist because the country exists. So when it comes to the country's benefit, ALL else should be stopped (such as negative politics, sit-ins and all) and in the best interest of the country, everyone should glorify a working system, not biitch or constant complain about the system due to political differences. Your enemy will use your differences and Pakistan won't get to where it can, economically and power wise.

So support your system and help it grow and help build a much better country and a much better future for your next generations. Where all different systems come together and work together, even with differences, to support the country.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You are very welcome. I just want to see Pakistan grow and become a regional power. With a 1.5 to 3 Trillion economy, NO ONE in the ENTIRE globe will have the balls to look at Pakistan with wrong attitude. That's where I want it to go. It has over 60 million young men between the ages of 16-22, the highest male population able to work. This ALONE if labor trained and provided correctly, can turn the tide of Pakistan's economy, add the CPEC and the new relationships Pakistan is forming, the 6th largest population has the potential to one day become the 10th Largest economy. With advanced defense production capabilities in house, without the need to borrow or finance money to buy advance weapons or equipment for research, trade and business.

All of the above will happen when ALL Pakistanis will put their difference aside and work for Pakistan, like the Indians have been doing for two decades. Pakistanis have to support their system, ignore political issues and work in synch. Also, Pakistanis need to throw the 80's and 90's politics out of their head and into some river. The military, the civilians and everyone else are working together.

Pakistan is the name of a country and a working SYSTEM. Where different parties, the military the civilian government ALL exist because the country exists. So when it comes to the country's benefit, ALL else should be stopped (such as negative politics, sit-ins and all) and in the best interest of the country, everyone should glorify a working system, not biitch or constant complain about the system due to political differences. Your enemy will use your differences and Pakistan won't get to where it can, economically and power wise.

So support your system and help it grow and help build a much better country and a much better future for your next generations. Where all different systems come together and work together, even with differences, to support the country.

Yeap. I understand.

Reminds me of debates on Edmund Burke vs. Thomas Payne

your approach is Burke-ian (and to some degree post civil war, British)
While many in Pakistani educated elite believe in Payne-ian (and to some degree French revolution like) approach.

I agree that Pakistanis society (majority in Punjab and Sindh and KP) support Edmond Burke's views

But sadly our media and universities and Sindh urban is dominated by Thomas Payne like people and pro-French revolution.

Immi Khan and his dharna politics is clearly a French revolution like approach and thus very very popular in many among urban Pakistan.
you want Pakistan to take Edmun

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@FaujHistorian @Atanz @Viper0011.

You've all touched upon valid issues and various internal defects that need to be addressed for Pakistan to experience long term sustained growth - economically and socially.

If I were to try and summarize and condense all the suggestions into a simple singular thought, it would be that Pakistan's biggest weakness is her lack of institutional strength. Atanz correctly pointed out that whatever the accomplishments of Gen. Sharif, the next COAS could be another Zia-ul-Haq or Musharraf and undermine everything accomplished so far.

The ability of the military to overthrow an elected government is a result of the weaknesses in our civilian institutions (and yes, one could argue that those weaknesses have been exacerbated by the aforementioned military coups, and we have a circular argument, but bear with me please). The military has been able to overthrow civilian governments because of the corruption and disfunction of civilian governments and the covert and overt undermining of democracy by Islamists and others - this is the vocal class of people that rails against democracy for being a 'Western concept', something that is against Islam and is not a 'fit for Pakistan' etc. These factors don't just delegitimize the politicians, but also the entire system itself, which makes it easier to morally and ethically justify the overthrow of elected governments. Pakistanis are not in favor of a military coup as much as they are fed up and against 'democracy' and the elected politicians who represent 'democracy'. The military just happens to (incorrectly) be the only/best option for such Pakistanis to support because, in public perceptions atleast, the military appears relatively more efficient and less corrupt than the political class.

There is no country in the world where the military cannot overthrow the government if it chooses to. The overwhelming amount of force available to any military leadership ensures that. The only way to prevent it from ocurring is by changing the way the military rank and file and officers view the letimacy of the 'Commander in Chief' (the Prime Minister in Pakistan's case) and the 'Constitution'. While Gen. Shareef has made wonderful progress, the public perception that Nawaz Sharif has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting the Army's policies is exacerbating the issue of a lack of legitimacy for the government and constitution. Without addressing this lack of legitimacy, the Pakistani public and the Pakistani Army will always remain open to the idea of military intervention against elected governments.

Sharif and Sharif have done well (after an initial rocky start) to sync their public statements and get on the same page on various policy issues (even off the record, there has been very little support for the PPP and MQM over their tirades against the military, from the PMLN). Over time this will only solidify the impression that the elected government isn't just tagging along reluctantly, but is taking ownership and initiative. The recent actions by the FIA, NAB and Punjab Police (Malik Ishaq killing) have bolstered the PMLN's standing in the public. What is needed now is a further depoliticisation and autonomy of these and other civilian institutions so that they can continue to build public trust in the elected government, regardless of whether the Sharifs or Nisars are in charge.

The military (Army specifically) needs to address the unconstitutional actions of Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Musharraf as part of its training. The illegality of, and damage from, military coups in Pakistan must be drummed into every grunt and officer in training, and perhaps even a public apology from the Army to the Pakistani public for past coups by the past leadership of the Army. The mindset of the institution of the Army and the mindset of the public needs to be changed to where military coups are simply not an option. It is that alone which prevents a military anywhere in the world from overthrowing an elected government.

This is nowhere near as thorough a response as I wanted, but it'll have to do given my dislike of using a smartphone for typing anything more than a few lines.

 

[Viper0011.]

@FaujHistorian @Atanz @Viper0011.

You've all touched upon valid issues and various internal defects that need to be addressed for Pakistan to experience long term sustained growth - economically and socially.

If I were to try and summarize and condense all the suggestions into a simple singular thought, it would be that Pakistan's biggest weakness is her lack of institutional strength. Atanz correctly pointed out that whatever the accomplishments of Gen. Sharif, the next COAS could be another Zia-ul-Haq or Musharraf and undermine everything accomplished so far.

The ability of the military to overthrow an elected government is a result of the weaknesses in our civilian institutions (and yes, one could argue that those weaknesses have been exacerbated by the aforementioned military coups, and we have a circular argument, but bear with me please). The military has been able to overthrow civilian governments because of the corruption and disfunction of civilian governments and the covert and overt undermining of democracy by Islamists and others - this is the vocal class of people that rails against democracy for being a 'Western concept', something that is against Islam and is not a 'fit for Pakistan' etc. These factors don't just delegitimize the politicians, but also the entire system itself, which makes it easier to morally and ethically justify the overthrow of elected governments. Pakistanis are not in favor of a military coup as much as they are fed up and against 'democracy' and the elected politicians who represent 'democracy'. The military just happens to (incorrectly) be the only/best option for such Pakistanis to support because, in public perceptions atleast, the military appears relatively more efficient and less corrupt than the political class.

There is no country in the world where the military cannot overthrow the government if it chooses to. The overwhelming amount of force available to any military leadership ensures that. The only way to prevent it from ocurring is by changing the way the military rank and file and officers view the letimacy of the 'Commander in Chief' (the Prime Minister in Pakistan's case) and the 'Constitution'. While Gen. Shareef has made wonderful progress, the public perception that Nawaz Sharif has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting the Army's policies is exacerbating the issue of a lack of legitimacy for the government and constitution. Without addressing this lack of legitimacy, the Pakistani public and the Pakistani Army will always remain open to the idea of military intervention against elected governments.

Sharif and Sharif have done well (after an initial rocky start) to sync their public statements and get on the same page on various policy issues (even off the record, there has been very little support for the PPP and MQM over their tirades against the military, from the PMLN). Over time this will only solidify the impression that the elected government isn't just tagging along reluctantly, but is taking ownership and initiative. The recent actions by the FIA, NAB and Punjab Police (Malik Ishaq killing) have bolstered the PMLN's standing in the public. What is needed now is a further depoliticisation and autonomy of these and other civilian institutions so that they can continue to build public trust in the elected government, regardless of whether the Sharifs or Nisars are in charge.

The military (Army specifically) needs to address the unconstitutional actions of Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Musharraf as part of its training. The illegality of, and damage from, military coups in Pakistan must be drummed into every grunt and officer in training, and perhaps even a public apology from the Army to the Pakistani public for past coups by the past leadership of the Army. The mindset of the institution of the Army and the mindset of the public needs to be changed to where military coups are simply not an option. It is that alone which prevents a military anywhere in the world from overthrowing an elected government.

This is nowhere near as thorough a response as I wanted, but it'll have to do given my dislike of using a smartphone for typing anything more than a few lines.

You've summed it up very well. Great post. All in all, the bottom line is, Pakistan NEEDS to go forward. There is no if, but or may be. This is the last chance as parity with India is extremely critical in terms of economic growth, which will then allow a sizable defense that would be required for Pakistan in the next 5-10 years. Good thing is, both the Shariff's know it and have been working together.

But to your point, this needs to be put into training for senior roles in the military so that no other general can come in and destroy years of progress, pisssoff the Chinese and other investors and put a dark cloud over Pakistan forever. If that happens, Pakistan will have a permanent stamp of a "failed state" and everyone would be like, "we told you so", these people don't want to grow.

The serious internal and external dangers Pakistan faces, she can NOT indulge into 80's, 90's politics. That has to end. People, politicians and the military need to realize that to go forward and create a stronger, better and successful Pakistan, they have to LEARN to work together and build that Pakistan that their nation wants them to build. Its not about generals, its not about parties, its not about the power. It is about a Nation looking for a System to give them a better future and world standing for over 70 years. Time has come and it is NOW. There is no tomorrow. So support the system, work together, be tolerant and support Pakistan!

 

[fatman17]

Unless Pakistanis settle down as a nation and support Pakistan army with their hands and feet (and not just mouths), and earn dollars through tourism, and industry, we cannot go much longer with current amount of dollar reserve.

the above solution can solve plenty of problems and issues

If people pay their taxes, if jagirdars, landlords, politicians, traders, industrialists etc pay their rightful taxes and not try to evade paying taxes with the help of customs and FBR officials pakistan would not need loans.
If government and military installations pay their electricity and gas bills Pakistan would not need loans.
If the government and military installations were not corrupt and do what they are supposed to do diligently Pakistan would not need loans.
If our education system was not broken then we would have a progressive and moderate population and the threat of extremism would not hurt our country.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

All you guys are winging it left and right----totally clueless like lost souls on an island deep in the middle of oceans---looking up in the skies---clueless to where you are and clueless to where you gonna be---dragging on in the sand with your miserable lives sometimes one step at a time---sometimes two---no hope---no resolve---no salvation.

The Achilles heal of any and every society is the implementation of ORDER and the enforcement of the RULE of Law---. That is what it has been since the dawn of times and that is what it will be till the day we breath the last.

Take America for example---there is order in the society---and why is there order n the society---because people fear the rule of law---people fear the consequences of the rule of law. The multiplier effect of breaking the rule of law is directly proportional to your job---your income---you position in the society.

If the pak army is able to manage order in the society and forces the rule of law in the community---give a ray of hope to the public---where the people can see the positive change happening and progress being made---they will become the little shield that goes over and protects the Achilles tendon.

So---as much as the public needs the army to protect them and the borders---so does the military needs the public to protect the army. In order for the public to be the protector of the army---it needs to see positive changes being made by the military. The public is right now in the wait and see mode----so it is not threatening the Achilles heal.

Imran Khan is not a threat to the Achilles heal either---. Regardless of what he says about TTP----even if he comes into power---the military will not allow it----.

Just like military did not allow Mr. Nawaz Shareef to run the country anymore----. Well he runs it in name and upto some extent.

Altaf Hussein has dug out his own grave and he keeps on digging it deeper and deeper---so he is not a threat to the Achilles heel as well.

Zardari has also been neutered----the speech that he made twice against the military----he has chopped off his own feet.

Now---in this case---the blunder that Pak military has committed is let all the high profile criminals escape the country----. Zardari came back and bit Pakistan in the heart---he should not have been let to leave the country---.

Here is the thing about the military take over of the country----Gen. Raheel would have overthrown Nawaz under different circumstances---. When the issue came up of Imran starting his movement---Pakistan was still in the bad books of the united states---and a military over throw---would have brought on sanctions----.

But if the same drama would be repeated when the isis hit hard and the U S found its head stuck up its ar-se and nowhere to go---an over throw of the govt at that time would have been rather productive.

So---right now----none of the forces mentioned by the thread starter have any significant value over the Achilles heel of the military other than the Pakistani public.

@Viper0011.

Sir,

Mr Nawaz Shareef is a prime minister by name---. Shreef govt did not authorize nothing---it is the military that has taken the action on its ow---because the current chief of the ISI was the previous chief of the rangers in Karachi prior to this job. Cleaning up Karachi is his pet project and being the commander of the rangers---he knew everything that was happening in Karachi----so as an ISI chief----as he got more influence---and with the backing of Gen Raheel---the project was given a go.

Neither was the sindh govt informed when it was to start---and Nawaz Shareef was just notified of the starting of operation.

Sir---you are mistaken about the development in Pakistan during the civilian rue----majority of it happened during the military rule----how do I know it---because as a 59 years old man I saw it happening----and I saw the country being plundered and looted during the civilian rule.

You have no clue about the amount of corruption during the last civilian rule and during this civilian rule---. Musharraf and his team were saints compared to the current and the last govt.

Sorry---I almost forgot-------.
.
The Pakistan Air Force is the pak military's Achilles heel. CONTD.

 

[Viper0011.]

@Viper0011.

Sir,
Mr Nawaz Shareef is a prime minister by name---. Shreef govt did not authorize nothing---it is the military that has taken the action on its ow---because the current chief of the ISI was the previous chief of the rangers in Karachi prior to this job. Cleaning up Karachi is his pet project and being the commander of the rangers---he knew everything that was happening in Karachi----so as an ISI chief----as he got more influence---and with the backing of Gen Raheel---the project was given a go.

Neither was the sindh govt informed when it was to start---and Nawaz Shareef was just notified of the starting of operation.

Sir---you are mistaken about the development in Pakistan during the civilian rue----majority of it happened during the military rule----how do I know it---because as a 59 years old man I saw it happening----and I saw the country being plundered and looted during the civilian rule.

You have no clue about the amount of corruption during the last civilian rule and during this civilian rule---. Musharraf and his team were saints compared to the current and the last govt.

Sorry---I almost forgot-------.
.
The Pakistan Air Force is the pak military's Achilles heel. CONTD.

Mr. MK, I sure do appreciate the post and the experience you bring to the table. But based on my knowledge (and so far, it has been right on the dime), I am going to beg to differ. Here are some details I'll provide to you and the rest, I'll leave it up to you to decipher from the unsaid. A person of your caliber will decode the unsaid I am sure

Cleaning up Karachi or FATA or Baluchistan isn't an easy thin to do, as you would agree. Specifically the war in FATA, the unrest in Afghanistan and RAW in many places in Baluchistan, KPK and in Sindh and behind majority of violent groups inside Pakistan (all the blame dosn't get to go to the RAW, you still have a HUGE mess through the Taliban terrorists). The militry picks the time and the day, it tells the premiers its about to do it. And that's what happened. NS doesn't need to know when Gen. Raheel wants to clean up the mess, he knows Gen. Raheel knows how to do his job very well and he trusts him. Results are in front of everyone.

Some key and quick decision points, when NS came in, there were $ 11 million left in Pakistan's savings account. Not enough to cover for imports or salaries of the government employees. IMF said no to an urgent request and there was nothing left. In many places, it is said that the paper work on Pakistan's default had been initiated. When a country can't pay for its trade and imports, knowing Pakistan ONLY keeps a month's worth of supplies for Oil and Gas in reserves, how could you POSSIBLY run a military operation (a mini war) on two fronts, and then add a third front later????

You would have NO fuel to run on, and the country would be defaulted. So no more fuel or very little fuel coming your way......how do you think the military was going to do it??? Let's not speculate that Gen. Raheel would've made a call and God would've sent Arabs with mystery ships and unlimited Oil. The REAL answer is, there was NOTHING to fight with!!!! The tanks would stop!!!

IK's sit-ins brought the two Shariffs together (and great for Pakistan). Both of these guys are very open, warm people, they talked openly and straight shooting. No keeping anything inside out of ego.

So when the topic started on Shuja Pasha, it went further to the Chinese President's visit and then to Pakistan's growth. Gen. Raheel was really worried about maintaining parity with India, which seemed impossible just two years ago. NS told him flat out that the Chinese Premier and the Turkish PM were going to sign contracts but he doesn't have stability to show, on the political end and on the terrorism related mess. And that he can bring in investments like with the Chinese and Turkish premier about to visit. But long term, Pakistan needed a clean and safer environment.

The General then made a few serious commitments with NS, and vis-a-vis. Result was that NS's financial and political support to the Army became unconditional. The Army did the same, which was much needed for Pakistan. Gen. Raheel also told him that in the next few weeks, IK will be told to pack up. And that happened. The wars were sponsored by the government and everything went per the plan. NS used his relations to borrow money and liquid fuel from Saudi and Qatar and later, ended up doing a long term reduced priced contract with Qatar for 15 years. Enough for Pakistan to establish its base as one of the faster growing economies.

If you notice, if MQM makes a comment about the military, the internal minister and NS directly get involved ASAP and deal with it and take the heat. Because of the political backing, MQM isn't wiling to do much, as whether they can wage a civil war or not to some degree. What they are really scared off is what would happen after the little civil war is over. The military would of course win. Bu then the elected officials will keep them in SC locked up at all levels, till the justice is served. No deals of any sorts due to Civilian - Military agreements. An example of civil government doing its thing is.... Mushy. And he's Altaf's close buddy and an ex-COAS. Need I say more???

Current DG of ISI or the previous one from Karachi, yes, I AM VERY aware of it. But it has no relevance. The only thing it brought to the table is a quick move by the military as the DG already knew the players. But that data would still be available through the Rangers, no matter who was the DG. The DG didn't go into each operation himself, it was his people and they'd transfer that data to the military if this DG was to be on vacation at the time.

Moral of the story, for the first time, the military and the civilian leadership are working in synch together. I think that by itself, this is the most significant achievement. Then there are all these high impact projects which will start to show their value to Pakistan and its people in two years.

On development within the country, the last civilian rule wasn't really a civilian rule. It was a robbery on your country's treasury to be honest. But it was a necessary one. The robbers were exposed and were kicked out and trust me, I don't see them coming back again.

Musharraf's time was super corrupt too. From the military's big guys to civilians, ALL made money and washed their hands with the same water, and "drank" the SAME Kool-Aid Mushy calls the "JUICE"!!!

On previous "developments" well, frankly, there were none. If in the 50+ years of the military rule, ONE SURVEY wasn't done to understand the future needs of the country in terms of water, electric and all.....where was the "development"???

In the 70's, the Tarbela dam was built....I had the honor of staying in the chief guest house there, over looking the Indus water from 5 feet above the river, from the third garden of the guest house which was lowered on top of the water, right by where Dolphins come (gorgeous area), as well as visiting all Canadian and German Turbines and two tunnels, all the way down, a few feet above from where the water hits those massive blades and the velocity and the kinetic energy of the water then results into generating energy through those power generators. But since then and outside of Mangla, what else has been done to produce electricity???

The same old ONE highway going through the entire country since the Britts, two major dams, totally inadequate to cover for the population's needs, massive random power generation plants put in during Mushy's time, without a structured analysis of whether the country should go on Coal, Oil or Gas, Solar or Wind or all.....no proper distribution, no attention to Healthcare, Education and all. What should be the strategy? What's the ideal mix like that doesn't put all eggs in one basket, allows Pakistan to maintain diversity that's the most affordable, and yet, Pakistan learns new tech like the Solar and Wind based electric production and builds an internal industry around it. But no strategy or anything existed till now.

Nothing for the people done either, to get their lives a little break from something, as basic as making their trip to work shorter, stress-free and comfortable (yes, the maligned Metro bus I am referring to).
I don't know what you call growth. I didn't see any over the past 4-5 decades and I sure as hell didn't see any planning. Sad part is, your country helped South Korea and Saudi with their economy building planning....look where they are today.

I say it without meaning an offense, the Pakistani military is a professional organization to fight and defend the country. Just like what its been doing now, it should always do what it does the best. Let the civilians create infrastructure, economy and growth.

Just like Kiyani and many other bad generals, you'll have bad civilians too. Has the nation asked a General to be replaced or do they even have the power to ask? NO!!! So if the nation puts up with a bad Army Chief, the Army needs to learn to put up with a bad Civilian too.

Just like Zardari, the democratic system will clean up the mess within a few years. But don't jeopardize the entire system based on a few people's ego's and thirst for power. Screwing with the system then means immediate destruction of the economy, investors run away, potential sanctions, future investments don't take place, existing project with IMF, etc, start to shrink and the money is taken out of the country.....all this, in a country who was just in the Emergency Room on Oxygen....and has barely made it out of the hospital with good news that she has the potential to grow and her disease is totally curable.

Both you and I live in America. This country literally has THE MOST powerful military ever witnessed in human life. Well......don't you think that some Generals don't like Civilian policies? Yes, at times they hate those. But do you think they'll just kick out the civilian ruler??? HELL NO!!!

One of the Service Chiefs, a few years ago, was in Afghanistan. He was asked to fly to DC. The same day, without rest, he went to see President Obama who let him go from his job right away, and said on tv that "this was important to maintain civilian control over the military".

This was a lesson for the ENTIRE world that this is how a democratic system runs. I am glad Gen. Shariff is in. He's truly following the system. Hopefully, he'll leave a great example behind. No more military rule. Let's grow Pakistan.

And I agree with your last line. The Pakistan Air Force is the Pak military's Achilles heel. No doubt about it!!!

 

[volatile]

Reading this article gives me an impression that PA is larger than Pakistan as a whole .I simply failed to understand PA is one of the finest institution in our country but why we are thinking this way .I mean lets go little back in the past .Gen Raheel is a wonderful general and soldier is his types were available in any war geography of this land would have been different .Coming back to history why we are so scared of all this as this is the result of directly or indirectly intervening by Army through out our history from coupes to Kargil and list goes on and on even last year Gen Zaheer and Co drama was staged .Fight we are doing is a result of seed sew by one of Millitary commander (Zia) added inflamed by Commando Mushi .Gen Shareef has to seriously disown these guys and start some thing new and beautiful.

 

[MastanKhan]

@Viper0011.

Thank you for the detailed post----. If I disagree on a few things that you stated---then I will have to dig in a little deeper on my side and that would not be productive.

Overall---I agree with your post---for the reason that there may be differences in perception---but the direction and the goal is the same---.

Now---my question to you is---what interests you so much about Pakistan that you post such an intensive and detailed input and how do you have access to that information?

 

[Caprxl]

Well I think , I say, I believe that if Military Dictators brought all Bad n deep shit stuff to Pakistan, they would have, all d sanctions n stuff BUT , BUT we should not be biased and admit all these politicians aren't Angeles either, Infact more corrupt than Dictators.
And being both Sahreefs on 1 page, all thanks to that Cane/Swagger of Raheel.

 

[MastanKhan]

@Viper0011.

Hi,

Reading your post a couple of three times---I have to admit---for sometime with an all American flag---you have a little too much information about what is happening---and no doubt that it is detailed information.

But---then looking at the material of your post----my assessment is that your information is coming from the civilian side and not thru the military side.

Which means---that IF the information that is being received by you is not first hand----then whomsoever is providing the information is fortifying the position of Nawaz Shareef by strengthening the position of Nawaz in the so called talks between him and the military---and that is incorrect.

The shortage of fuel was a drama by the govt. ----we don't even know the rate at which the new del is done---it was all created to make money.

I am with you when you talk about the progress of Pakistan----.

But---the military is not asking him what needs to be done---military is telling him what is going to happen---just wait and see---the drama is folding nicely and smoothly.

Nawaz Shareef---if he had his way---he had no intention of going after the terrorists----but for the U S---he is a better choice over Imran Khan---even though---the military won't allow Imran Khan to negotiate with the TTP----but Mr. Khan is outspoken and is against the U S.

 

[salarsikander]

Hi,

when the boots starts flyin, democrazy leader start cryin.

Sheesh so much for the ruining 70 + years of Pakistan.

These Jernails are real evil. And even so they are still liked. I am sure they must have some kind of ''juice'' charm in them