Pakistan's New F-16 Block 52 vs SU 30 MKI.

[honour]

butaa yaara then dont bother replying here again if you think its useless to debate here.
and yaar one more thing. Which fanboy dream are you talking about a EF getting defeated by MKI in a exercise?

brother...it was told in joint statement by RAF and IAF that
“The operational part of the ‘Exercise Indradhanush-2007′ began with a series of 1 vs 1 air combat sorties… The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKI’s observed superior manoeuvrings in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoon’s agility in the air.but the exercise finally concluded with su-30mki scoring more kills than tornado and euro-fighter due to its high maneuverability and BAR radar..which were used first time against a foreign opponent..but no doubt euro fighter was instrumental for its BVR and missile accuracy capability...

Jack bruney ,a pilot in the exercise admitted on a video on you tube that they will require the caesar radar so as to defeat su030mki......

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I just saw a thread SU 30 VS F 35........
In end accordin to indian members SU-30 won.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

brother...it was told in joint statement by RAF and IAF that
“The operational part of the ‘Exercise Indradhanush-2007′ began with a series of 1 vs 1 air combat sorties… The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKI’s observed superior manoeuvrings in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated. The IAF pilots on their part were also visibly impressed by the Typhoon’s agility in the air.but the exercise finally concluded with su-30mki scoring more kills than tornado and euro-fighter due to its high maneuverability and BAR radar..which were used first time against a foreign opponent..but no doubt euro fighter was instrumental for its BVR and missile accuracy capability...

Jack bruney ,a pilot in the exercise admitted on a video on you tube that they will require the caesar radar so as to defeat su030mki......

and the sources for this is a indian fanboy who has too much time on blogs?

 

[thunder rules]

block 52 is much much improved variant of f 16 and its considered as 4.5 gen as well..

 

[thunder rules]

I just saw a thread SU 30 VS F 35........
In end accordin to indian members SU-30 won.

i just dont blv their ignorance..

 

[honour]

and the sources for this is a indian fanboy who has too much time on blogs?

Brother the source is official INDRADHANUSH site.....i provided the link earlier also but some "death guy'" said it wasn't opening as well as some "samika" said so....i just copied the content from there...
also plz check back the thread u will definitely find it....

 

[honour]

i just dont blv their ignorance..

agree now this is a joke ...i also read a post that called j-10b equivalent to f-35 II...so lets ignore these stupid jokes....

 

[SpArK]

 

[thunder rules]

agree now this is a joke ...i also read a post that called j-10b equivalent to f-35 II...so lets ignore these stupid jokes....

its not only abt joke its abt ur superiority complex and over confidence.. f 16 a/b are 4 gen and inferior to mki no doubt but block 52 are improved far improved then earlier versions and its termed as 4.5 gen as u people coin it for ur mki.. yes may be their might be few areas where ur mki take the lead but over all block 52 is enough potent to be comparable to ur mki.. small difference are alwaz der. but those are covered with up gradations with the passage of times..

 

[MZUBAIR]

Nope, Not the Pakistani F 16s.

PAF F-16's are not for NUKE operations or role.

Mirage & JF-17 Sqds are dedicated for Nuke Operations.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Doesnt matter with these for PAF now......coz
PAF have SAAB and later Chinees Early Warning airplanes have 400 + tracking n deduction ranges (exact position) and data can be transfared to Mirage and JF-17.
And plz dont say that AWE&C can be destroyed............its impossible coz there would be dozen of AC's and number of ground support aresenals to protect them from aireal attack

Comparison with AIM-120 AMRAAM
[edit] Range
The R-77's main advantage over the AIM-120 AMRAAM is in range and maneuverability. The longer range is because the R-77 is a larger 200 mm vs 178 mm (8 vs 7 in), heavier 175 vs 150 kg (386 vs 335 lb) missile than the AMRAAM and contains more propellant. Like most AAM weapons, the claimed range is for a non-maneuvering target, at a high altitude, and probably on a head on aspect with a respectable closing rate. Lower altitudes, rear aspect, or maneuvering targets will all reduce this range, but the same applies to the AMRAAM[citation needed].

[edit] Maneuverability
The missile's maneuverability relies on the lattice work fins at the rear. The R-77's overall aerodynamic configuration is more efficient at high speed and high angles of attack than the conventional deltas used on the AIM-120 and most other missiles. This reduces the loss of energy when the R-77 is chasing a maneuvering target[5]. However, near Mach 1, oblique shock waves can substantially increase drag of the lattice fins and reverse their advantage [6]. If the missile was fired at a range long enough for it to decelerate to low Mach speeds, it would deplete its energy very quickly while maneuvering. The increased drag would also hamper the carrying aircraft at certain speeds unless the fins were folded or the missiles were stored internally. Nonetheless, the weapon is reported to be able to handle a target maneuvering at up to 12g,[7] a substantially higher rate than any manned fighter.

R-77 benefit over AIM is also the drawback in respect of speed.

 

[thunder rules]

PAF F-16's are not for NUKE operations or role.

Mirage & JF-17 Sqds are dedicated for Nuke Operations.

i dont have much info regarding this but i remember i heard our earlier air cheif tanveer mehmood that paf can modify f 16 for this role as well it was when paf received 4 f 16s from usa back in 2008.. youtube is not working other wise i would have shown u.

 

[SpArK]

Doesnt matter with these for PAF now......coz
PAF have SAAB and later Chinees Early Warning airplanes have 400 + tracking n deduction ranges (exact position) and data can be transfared to Mirage and JF-17.
And plz dont say that AWE&C can be destroyed............its impossible coz there would be dozen of AC's and number of ground support aresenals to protect them from aireal attack


R-77 benefit over AIM is also the drawback in respect of speed.

the Su 30 mkI has bvr's that have a longer range than the future sd 10 of paf.

The max range of the russian bvr is around 100 km---the max range of sd 10 is around 60 km----the 90 % kill range of russian bvr is around 50--60 km---the 90% kill range of sd 10 is around 30 to 40 km if it is.

What I am trying to share is that the su 30 can launch a volley of missiles at the target way beyong the 90% kill range of sd 10---it is simple physics now---don't you guys study physics in your engr class. The rules of engagement have changed when your missile can kill from a longer distance than mine.

Again----to simplify---the su 30 is shooting with a .50 calibre barret ( where .50 has scored regular kills at 2000 yds and beyond )----the jf 17 with sd 10 is more like a .338 lapua round----scoring kills at 1000 plus yds or regular basis maybe 1250 on a rare occassion ).

What the reader needs to understand is that the su 30 can launch a volley of missiles at one or two, three or four targets at the same time and even before it gets in the kill range of the sd 10, the su 30 can turn around and leave the battle field---if 4 jf 17 in one sortie---they will have two missiles each locked on to the---.

The jf 17 would be trying to save its life---it cannot launch its missiles from max distance---because they will be useless. The jf 17 will be busy in breaking the missile lock---.

Now flying over its own territory, if the paf have some nice decent quality air craft with jammers then maybe it might work or maybe it maynot work.

The enemy has a numerical superiority---the enemy has a technical superiority---the enemy has the support of many.

So what do we do now---.

Major weapons systems are purchased for show---they are purchased to make a political statement---they are purchased to make the enemy come to the table to make peace. The non conventional weapons and missiles systems did create those circumstances, but our lack of air superiority was and is our weakest link.

We have developed a belief that we are okay as long as we have weapons that can bloody the enemy's nose---well that is a bad bad strategy and gameplan. You never know how the opponent will react after a bloodied nose---you have thrown the ball in the enemy court and let the enemy decide what to do.

We ough to have weapons systems that can smash the enemy's pride---bring it down to its knees momentarily and make him think---peace is better than war.

We have two items worthy of that---our missiles system---and our non conventional weapons---but we don't have a third leg to stand upon. That is the air force---if our air force was better equipped years ago---all our peace deals would have been signed----we would have not been at the brink of war---india and pakistan would have been onto bigger and better things in the life of their citizens.

Again the purpose of any major weapons system is to bring about peace---jf 17 doesnot do that. It will be a wonderful aircraft in its category---no doubt about it.

courtesy MASTAN KHAN

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/32359-jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-3-a-128.html#post863288

 

[MZUBAIR]

i dont have much info regarding this but i remember i heard our earlier air cheif tanveer mehmood that paf can modify f 16 for this role as well it was when paf received 4 f 16s from usa back in 2008.. youtube is not working other wise i would have shown u.

No prob........
JF-17 n Mirage r enough to do job........
dont forget Raad can be fired from F-16..........Raad is capable to take Nuclear warhead

 

[deckingraj]

thanks for putting formula here. it shows Range is Proportional to 4th root of RCS thus in principle MKI and F 16 will have almost the same range for engagements.so it settles Range issue aint it?

Well what i was trying to point out that there are other factors involved as well...You are right when you say Range is inversely proportional to RCS however there are other factors that involved in increasing or decreasing range apart from RCS....

If you are saying that other factors involved in radar of both the fighters are same then your assumption about range is correct.....Do you know about other values???