Pakistan's New F-16 Block 52 vs SU 30 MKI.

[Storm Force]

Pakistanis seem to be hedging their bets that in the next big INDO PAK dust up that China will open a second front to split the Indian military.

If Paks think China will assist directly wants to stop Russia getting involved. or in deed usa.

Cant rely on PLAAF to aid the PAF against 250 su30mki

 

[deckingraj]

Pakistanis seem to be hedging their bets that in the next big INDO PAK dust up that China will open a second front to split the Indian military.

If Paks think China will assist directly wants to stop Russia getting involved. or in deed usa.

Cant rely on PLAAF to aid the PAF against 250 su30mki

You are right however from our war strategy perspective we will always keep reserves for China...Even if China engages or not we will keep our resources only for Eastern Border in case there is any misadventure...So bottom line some percentage of our resources would not be used against Pakistan if god forbids war break out...Do you agree...

If you do then Growler asked a very valid question...I did answer but please feel free to correct/validate my understanding...

 

[thunder rules]

why the hell indians are so over confident.. we have witness in india's numerical superiority in past as well.. india has been 8-9 times superior on quantitative basis but yet in past our weaker forces managed to become nightmare for 8 times bigger army. today every thing has been changed Pakistan has more powerful then it was ever in past.. india capabilities have far improved as well . pakistan is small country and it has less area to cover unlike india which 4 times bigger geographically so its needs are bigger as well.. but today we are an nuclear power and india cant even imaging to invade us in any kind of unfair means only it can play with u diplomatically which they use to do. and just keep give us threats of their superior quantity . other wise they dont have enough morals and guts to face pakistan bravery . if tomorrow pakistan gets hand on some 60-70 western 4.5 fighters then these indian will automatically will come on track..

pakistan zindabad.

 

[jagjitnatt]

why the hell indians are so over confident.. we have witness in india's numerical superiority in past as well.. india has been 8-9 times superior on quantitative basis but yet in past our weaker forces managed to become nightmare for 8 times bigger army. today every thing has been changed Pakistan has more powerful then it was ever in past.. india capabilities have far improved as well . pakistan is small country and it has less area to cover unlike india which 4 times bigger geographically so its needs are bigger as well.. but today we are an nuclear power and india cant even imaging to invade us in any kind of unfair means only it can play with u diplomatically which they use to do. and just keep give us threats of their superior quantity . other wise they dont have enough morals and guts to face pakistan bravery . if tomorrow pakistan gets hand on some 60-70 western 4.5 fighters then these indian will automatically will come on track..

pakistan zindabad.

India always had a numerical advantage, but what bugged India in the past was that Indian planes were not quality wise superior to PAF's. PAF enjoyed planes life F86 Sabre and F104 which Indian's never had. Indians used Gnats and Hunters, that too later on, and even these were not technically superior but rather on par with F86.

Now though the scenario has changed. Today IAF has better planes and more planes and can take on PAF in a better way.

 

[Trichy]

why the hell indians are so over confident.. we have witness in india's numerical superiority in past as well.. india has been 8-9 times superior on quantitative basis but yet in past our weaker forces managed to become nightmare for 8 times bigger army. today every thing has been changed Pakistan has more powerful then it was ever in past.. india capabilities have far improved as well . pakistan is small country and it has less area to cover unlike india which 4 times bigger geographically so its needs are bigger as well.. but today we are an nuclear power and india cant even imaging to invade us in any kind of unfair means only it can play with u diplomatically which they use to do. and just keep give us threats of their superior quantity . other wise they dont have enough morals and guts to face pakistan bravery . if tomorrow pakistan gets hand on some 60-70 western 4.5 fighters then these indian will automatically will come on track..

pakistan zindabad.

If you ware induct 4.5 Gen Fighter we already have dates for the 5 Gen Fighter, we always 1 step ahead now But you not even have decide to buy which fighter till now??

 

[arsalan shafique]

I wana KNOW that How to DelEte AccOuNt ON DeFEnce ForUM???????
IT has StARtEd to SuCk Now.........BeCoz Ov SucH UselEss TOpICS........kIndLy NAme THIS ForUm ......................."WORLD's USELESS TOPIC FORUM"!!!!!
PLEAseeeeeeeee..........................StoP MAkINg Such ******* THReAds!!!!
Like Zardari's act Of UNsanIty!!!!!
N MAnY OTHErs R DeRE!!!!!!

 

[KS]

pakistan is small country and it has less area to cover unlike india which 4 times bigger geographically so its needs are bigger as well..

Wo wo wo...i ve seen many Pakistanis soothing themselves telling these.Let me give a reality check.

Wat u say is true only if the enemy has come in to Indian mainland (Southern,eastern,Central states) and we have to defend our country from them. like in Iraq.

But in the case of Indo-Pak war,it will be fought on the border states only.Even if the IA has the capability to enter the Pakistani mainland(due to the narrowness of Pakistani geography) Paksitani corps will never realistically go beyond the border states of Punjab,Rajasthan and Gujarat.
And so we only have as much territory as u to defend...Not more...
For internal problem we have some of the largest paramilitaries in the world.

other wise they dont have enough morals and guts to face pakistan bravery .

Yeah dude we all saw wat that bravery could do in 65,71,84,99.

if tomorrow pakistan gets hand on some 60-70 western 4.5 fighters then these indian will automatically will come on track..

Please be realistic...ur talking abt 4.5 gen fighters not some damn lollipops that u go to a store ,buy 70 of them , pay 300 rs and come out.

and whos going to pay for them..?

 

[kashith]

why the hell indians are so over confident.. we have witness in india's numerical superiority in past as well.. india has been 8-9 times superior on quantitative basis but yet in past our weaker forces managed to become nightmare for 8 times bigger army. today every thing has been changed Pakistan has more powerful then it was ever in past.. india capabilities have far improved as well . pakistan is small country and it has less area to cover unlike india which 4 times bigger geographically so its needs are bigger as well.. but today we are an nuclear power and india cant even imaging to invade us in any kind of unfair means only it can play with u diplomatically which they use to do. and just keep give us threats of their superior quantity . other wise they dont have enough morals and guts to face pakistan bravery . if tomorrow pakistan gets hand on some 60-70 western 4.5 fighters then these indian will automatically will come on track..

pakistan zindabad.

India has to keep China in mind as well.Be sure if this was not the case,then we would have deployed our entire army on our western border instead of deploying them in the east.In fact this was the reason that in 1965 Pakistan was able to stand up against India.In any case,MKI is deployed in larger numbers in the east as compared to west where the Mig-29 will play the air superiority role..

 

[notorious_eagle]

You are right however from our war strategy perspective we will always keep reserves for China...Even if China engages or not we will keep our resources only for Eastern Border in case there is any misadventure...So bottom line some percentage of our resources would not be used against Pakistan if god forbids war break out...Do you agree...

Indeed they wouldnt be but the cream assets of the Indian Armed Forces will be deployed against Pakistan. Let me repeat something that has been repeated by senior members many times before. Pakistan Army is under no illusion that during a state of war China will open another front. The Chinese have made it clear that in case of a Indo-Pak War, the Chinese will provide economic/military assistance but Pakistan will have to fight the war on its own. If you look at the past, India was superior to Pakistan in terms of numbers and quality but Pakistan still managed to fight India on its own without any external help.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

First of all we do not have 250 MKI's...As of now we have a little above 100...So lets stick to that number...Having said it the way IAF will not engage all its fighters at once the same way PAF will not engage all its fighters at once...With higher number of fighters and endurance of MKI just imagine the number of sorties MKI's can do vs paltry some of F-16's block 52....

Having said it you would have support of SAMS and Air defence but this is surely more than bit of concern when it comes to PAF doctorine of denying IAF Air Superiority....

I was referring to future PAF IAF conflict, but that 250 was a reply to one of indian member.

From 1994-2005 PAF clocked 350 hours per F-16 airframe in a year despite the fact PAF was under heavy sanctions. As soon as spare parts were available since 2002 i can say with full confidence that F-16 are doing 400+ hours each year. In war time of course the sorties are raised. IMO the MKI also clocks nearly the same hours as our F-16s.
The spare parts for PAF in case of war should not be the problem as the F-16 deal covers most of it.

 

[thunder rules]

India always had a numerical advantage, but what bugged India in the past was that Indian planes were not quality wise superior to PAF's. PAF enjoyed planes life F86 Sabre and F104 which Indian's never had. Indians used Gnats and Hunters, that too later on, and even these were not technically superior but rather on par with F86.

Now though the scenario has changed. Today IAF has better planes and more planes and can take on PAF in a better way.

what a joke... if u had budget constrains and we had them too even more serious from india, indeed today pakistan is facing it .. and how come u missed mig 21 which india bought in huge quantity which was superior to pakistans any of the fighter aircraft of that time even our mirages were subsonic and mig was super sonic.. and yes scenario has changed dude.. today pakistan is a nuclear power and india dont have enough balls to attack us no matter how big is ur inventory of aircraft it.. ?

and dont jump to conclusions when we in past can give hard time to 8 time bigger enemy then just imagine what can nuclear power do with u.. and dont forget our nukes are superior then indias nukes and more in quantity as well as per some international intelligence reports

come out of ur fools paradise

 

[Manticore]

there are certain critical strategic areas and situations which have been pinpointed by our defence council---

if in a war , we lose in those areas , then it will automatically give the green signal to launch atomic bombs as at that time , the very existance of pakistan would be at stake---

the lesser conventional strength we have , the quicker we will use our nuclear strength-- maybe thats a reason why u.s is helping us in the non-conventional weapons department

 

[Myth_buster_1]

India always had a numerical advantage, but what bugged India in the past was that Indian planes were not quality wise superior to PAF's. PAF enjoyed planes life F86 Sabre and F104 which Indian's never had. Indians used Gnats and Hunters, that too later on, and even these were not technically superior but rather on par with F86.

Now though the scenario has changed. Today IAF has better planes and more planes and can take on PAF in a better way.

You have tendency of posting few baseless off topic posts and running away without even supporting your argument with any valid sources.

In 1965 war. IAF had numerical and technical superiority over PAF.
PAF most advance fighter type was F-104 and only 12 were acquired where as in early 60s IAF acquired Mig-21F along with AA-2 air to air missiles but unfortunatly for IAF the entire fleet of mig-21 were whipped out by sabres.. Only one F-86 squadron were equipped with ineffective AIM-9 version while the rest of 90 Sabres were not fitted with AIM-9s or were not capable of.
F-86 without AIM-9 was inferior to IAF Hunter Gnat and Mig-21.
Ironically the RAF replaced its F-86 inventory with more capable dogfighter the Hunters and Indians are claiming Sabers are superior to Hunters.
IAF had about 800 combat aircraft strength while PAF had only 130 but surprisingly it was PAF which kept air dominance.

In 71 war. IAF had total numerical and technical superiority with more capable mig-21 fleet but again it was PAF which won air war in 71.

 

[honour]

You have tendency of posting few baseless off topic posts and running away without even supporting your argument with any valid sources.

In 1965 war. IAF had numerical and technical superiority over PAF.
PAF most advance fighter type was F-104 and only 12 were acquired where as in early 60s IAF acquired Mig-21F along with AA-2 air to air missiles but unfortunatly for IAF the entire fleet of mig-21 were whipped out by sabres.. Only one F-86 squadron were equipped with ineffective AIM-9 version while the rest of 90 Sabres were not fitted with AIM-9s or were not capable of.
F-86 without AIM-9 was inferior to IAF Hunter Gnat and Mig-21.
Ironically the RAF replaced its F-86 inventory with more capable dogfighter the Hunters and Indians are claiming Sabers are superior to Hunters.
IAF had about 800 combat aircraft strength while PAF had only 130 but surprisingly it was PAF which kept air dominance.

In 71 war. IAF had total numerical and technical superiority with more capable mig-21 fleet but again it was PAF which won air war in 71.

looks like you flow with the words a lot than the required......whiped out the entire mig-21f fleet???
can u give a source.....

also pak won the air war in 71
...any non-indo pak credible link.......

so plz try being sourceful instead of being a box of useless words

 

[Myth_buster_1]

looks like you flow with the words a lot than the required......whiped out the entire mig-21f fleet???
can u give a source.....

also pak won the air war in 71
...any non-indo pak credible link.......

so plz try being sourceful instead of being a box of useless words

The world is not only limited to only Bharatrasksak and wikipedia.
But i will be more then happy to enlighten another misinformed friend from across the border.

PATHANKOT STRIKE
1965
8 F-86Fs of No 19 Squadron led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider struck Pathankot airfield. With carefully positioned dives and selecting each individual aircraft in their protected pens for their strafing attacks, the strike elements completed a textbook operation against Pathankot. Wing Commander M G Tawab, flying one of the two Sabers as tried escort overhead, counted 14 wrecks burning on the airfield. Among the aircraft destroyed on the ground were nearly all of the IAF's Soviet-supplied Mig-21s till then received, none of which was seen again during the War. Tied escorts consisted of Wing Commander M G Tawab (later Air Marshal and air Chief of Bangladesh Air Force) and Flight Lieutenant Arshsad Sami while the strike elements were led by Squadron Leader Sajjad Haider with Flight Lieutenant M Akbar, Mazhar Abbas, Dilawar Hussain, Ghani Akbar and Flyng Officer Arshad Chaudhary, Khalid Latif and Abbas Khattak (later CAS, PAF) in his formation.

According to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute database, USSR supplied 12 Mig-21F to IAF in 1963. Ironically non of the Mig-21F variants acquired in 1963 were never seen in the combat again and their is no photographic record that proves IAF Mig-21F from 65 war survived.