What's new

Pakistani Military's Conventional Deterrence Against India's Cold Start Doctrine

Zionism is great! You should be endorsing it rather than decrying it because Zionism endorses human dignity which blind ad hominem attacks attempt to submerge.
Yes, Zionism consider others subhuman and gentile. Im from brooklyn, ive dealt and met more Zionst than you ever would. I know their reality first hand.
 
Last edited:
.
indian CANNOT defeat Pakistan in a war. If they could they would have attacked us by now, considering how much they hate us. The most extreme hatred in the world. All indians are is TALK. The only thing indians can do is blow hot air on the internet and make outlandish childish statements.



We don't need to attack you.. not our intention... You attacked us 4 times.. did you gain anything.. don't bring 47 it was merely Indian army hold your invasion... we engaged in mid way.. you attacked us in Kargil, occupied empty posts... but couldn't hold .. and yeah suddenly you guys jumping to conventionally you can defeat India because of Musings blog??? If some one posts opposite kinda article, you guys will accuse your govt... first clean the mess in your country before claim superiority...
 
.
We don't need to attack you.. not our intention... You attacked us 4 times.. did you gain anything.. don't bring 47 it was merely Indian army hold your invasion... we engaged in mid way.. you attacked us in Kargil, occupied empty posts... but couldn't hold .. and yeah suddenly you guys jumping to conventionally you can defeat India because of Musings blog??? If some one posts opposite kinda article, you guys will accuse your govt... first clean the mess in your country before claim superiority...



So we are to believe indians like you whom lying, deception and extreme hatred towards Pakistanis/Muslims is hard-wired into your dna?........... :lol:

Also, are we to believe a member of the race who vehemently proclaimed that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance?.........:lol:

indian leaders and other prominent figures have repeatedly called for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation. But they have NEVER had the courage or capability to even try despite india being 7x bigger than us and having abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. If and when they do then come and talk. Otherwise just more retarded indianisms.
 
.
I'm done going in circles , if you want links read my posts to you in this thread
I already did and didn't find the word India won you start trolling/ insulting Pakistan Military 30% b@rking that in fornt of India Pakistan armed force is nothing and continually b@rking this rants and off-topic discussions:offpost: you're reported your rants/trolling @patman:blah::blah::blah: :blah:
 
.
So we are to believe indians like you whom lying, deception and extreme hatred towards Pakistanis/Muslims is hard-wired into your dna?........... :lol:

Also, are we to believe a member of the race who vehemently proclaimed that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance?.........:lol:

indian leaders and other prominent figures have repeatedly called for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation. But they have NEVER had the courage or capability to even try despite india being 7x bigger than us and having abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. If and when they do then come and talk. Otherwise just more retarded indianisms.


Here we go again DNA crap... stop being drama queen..
 
.
Fair is a Provost's Distinguished Associate Professor in the Peace and Security Studies Program (SSP) within Georgetown University’s Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service. She served as a senior political scientist with the RAND Corporation, political officer with the UN Assistance Mission to Afghanistan and as a senior research associate with the United States Institute of Peace.

You, Sir- are a blogger. Honestly, you are not the right representative to take on Fair. You have serious issues with poor credibility, playing very loose with facts and intentionally obfuscating data in your 'musings'. There are far more credible voices in Pakistan that have integrity and can refute Fair.

She is as passionate about S.Asia as you are about India and Pakistan. With the difference being, she is looked at as a credible authority among international think tanks even with her bellicose.


Long time ago Riaz posted thread, I don't remember thread title.. but riaz quoted an Indian blogger( name) as his source...When i dig into that Indian blogger, that blogger quoted riaz as his Source...
 
. .
I already did and didn't find the word India won

BBC:
independent authors believed India had an upper hand in the war


you start trolling/ insulting Pakistan
Military 30% b@rking that in fornt of India Pakistan armed force is nothing and continually b@rking this rants and off-topic discussions:offpost: you're reported your rants/trolling @patman:blah::blah::blah: :blah:

Bollox , I gave you a fact. Indian army has a much larger arsenal than Pakistan . If you are so confident prove me wrong. Do the comparison yourself

https://www.globalfirepower.com/cou...untry1=india&country2=pakistan&Submit=COMPARE

And no this is not off topic , fuk sakes the title literally says "
Pakistani Military's Conventional Deterrence "
 
.
There is another perspective on the 2001-02 standoff, it was fist brought to my notice by Brig Samson Saraf (if I remember correct it was Brig Saraf) posting on the sadly defunct chowk.com. The perspective had two key propositions:

1. The mobilisation of Pak troops to the Eastern border forced it to substantially abandon its guard on the Western front where the Pak Army had the putative TTP on the mat. This allowed the likes of Baitullah and Radio to mobilise and eventually they would be a serious threat later in the decade.
2. This, along with the Parliament attack itself, was a deliberate act of the Indian Army/agencies in connivance with some foreign powers.

I am a peace loving Bong having remotely nothing to do with the business of fighting but experts here like @Oscar and @Joe Shearer may want to chip in on this.

Regards
 
. .
BBC:
independent authors believed India had an upper hand in the war



Bollox , I gave you a fact. Indian army has a much larger arsenal than Pakistan . If you are so confident prove me wrong. Do the comparison yourself

https://www.globalfirepower.com/cou...untry1=india&country2=pakistan&Submit=COMPARE

And no this is not off topic , fuk sakes the title literally says "
Pakistani Military's Conventional Deterrence "
your're going to my ignore list you retard head @patman :blah::blah:
 
.
Appreciate your detailed response. My thoughts on this subject -

  • Up to late 1960s the conventional disparity was insufficient for India to 'cull' Pakistan. Although india still had superiority in numbers but it was nominal and this is reflected in how Pakistan was the aggressor in 1965.

  • However from 1971 the disparity increased. From mid 1970s onwards was opportune time for India to destroy - not conquer/annex as that is beyond India but to destroy the Pakistani state. [India has over half a million soldiers stationed to pacify few million Kashmiri's]. This window lasted from 1971 on to early 1990s. Nothing ever is perfect. No war as been fought in ideal circumstances. From perspective of India it was 'the moment' missed. I think this was down to internal weakness in the Indian society. Both countries are not suited for long term, heavy wars of attrition like Europe/Japan were in both WWs.

  • Post 1998 and the nuclear dawn the possibility of India attacking or posing a existential threat is in my opinion zero. I cannot see India attacking now when the cost of such mis-adventure would be nuclear war. If India did not do this when the 'window was open' from 1971 to 1990 when the military disparity was the greatest the chance of that now is zero.

  • However I think the rivalry between both countries will focus on geo-strategy and the economic field. The critical factor will be which of these countries creates a fair, social, economic, safe, secure and stable internal environment. This is where the rivalry will be played out. This is where Pakistan is losing. We have a reputation as terrorist, radical, misogynist, crazed country on earth and this is reflected in the stock value of Pakistan's passport which lingers right at the bottom with Afghanistan and Syria. This makes Pakistam's position in my estimation even worse then both those countries. At least they are at war and have foreign armies trampling ove them.

  • The problem in Pakistan is there is little appetite to tackle this problem. To begin with the in your face use of religion as a commodity has to stop. But the problem is the very elite that should tackle the problem has been cultivating this beast. Religion has been the red flag that has been used to distract and hypnotize the bull called the Pakistani masses. However the good news is with increasing Chinese influence we have a outside party that has the means and the reasons to push the elite to sort out the madhouse we call Pakistan. I am placing lot of store on the China factor in taming the rampent fake religious piety that has wrought destruction and obfuscated from what needs to be done instead Pakistan. Some of that is apparent even on this forum.

  • To be sure Pakistan should have enjoyed the nuclear dividend. That is with MAD in place and Indian threat efectively checkmated the conventional size of Pak military should have been drastically cut by as much as 30%. We do not need masses of armour when huge tank protracted tank battle will not take place as soon the nuclear 'click' will kick in. However because of no civilian oversight of Pak armed forces and the institutional inertia - no organizations likes saying 'look we need to downsize' this has not happened. The resources saved could be spent on beefing up internal security forces and establish the effective law and order within the country.

  • I think the rivalry between Pakistan and India is not neccassrily a bad thing. Only we need to focus on the economic, health and sports. This can only help both peoples to rise. We have too many poor people.

  • On another note your post brings out what I have been saying for a long time. Pakistan does have a geographic reality underpining it. You alluded to it. The Indus Valley is effectively differantiated from rest of South Asia by first the Rann of Kutch which I have shown as red and the [ii]Thar Desert which I have shown as yellow. Only in the northern portion of both Punjabs does the divide become fuzzy. For vast majority of Pakistan/India border there exists the real physical differantiation.



fv2yar8.jpg


@Cybernetics @Joe Shearer
It is important for Pakistan to pick its mid-term strategic direction. Does it see an opportunity for an conventional offensive or is it better to position for defence? I think the latter positioning is the best for the short to mid term.

India doesn't have the conditions or ability to focus its military hardware potential and attention all on Pakistan. There is a balance of power in IOC due to the inability (terrain and logicstics) to field heavy armour and neither side wanting to escalate due. It is predominantly low intensity/low cost combat, very manageable for Pakistan. Elsewhere in the desert region Pakistan can employ more asymmetric defensive strategies. Instead of fielding and maintain a massive offensive armoured force, a greater focus on anti-tank operations might prove more cost effective.

There might be fears that an overtly defensive posture against India will cause a more aggressive India. Perhaps in rhetoric but India would fear offensive operation against Pakistan would cause China to take South Tibet and cut off the North East, so it can never fully posture against Pakistan in this regard. One front war will most likely turn into two fronts very quickly.

Land invasion of Pakistan outside of the Northern Mountain region is very unlikely.

India enjoys an advantage over Pakistan in terms of Navy power projection and power but it is difficult for India to effectively field it against Pakistan or posture against it. It is operating in an environment where China is a present factor. Blockade of Pakistan will lead to a naval confrontation with China and possibly a broader conflict.

Underlying logic for use and development of ICBM is slightly different from that between USA and Russia where ICBMs can be intercepted over a 3rd party territory or over the ocean and destruction of the other might not lead to self destruction. For Pakistan and India, missile interception will create radioactive debris over both nations. Effective use of nuclear weapons against each other would mean nuclear fallout for both sides. This somewhat mitigates/lessens a nuclear arms race. Unless 4th generation nuclear weapons are desired or achieved.

In summary: Pakistan should focus on mountain warfare, anti-tank operations, air superiority (over Pakistan), and asymmetric operations in Kashmir and Afghanistan.

The current trend for Pakistan and India is towards occasional low intensity conflict and asymmetric warfare, a broader conflict is less likely in the short to mid term. It is vital that Pakistan take this window to focus on developing its industrial sector and technology base. From what some members have said, downsizing military budget is unlikely but re-positioning is possible. An intentional development of military-civilian technology cooperation can create a trickle down effect while keeping current bureaucratic setup.
 
.
Cold Start doctrine itself offers no ‘end point’. Though there is very much flexibility in its operation but it fails to wind up limited war in a balanced manner. Bite and Hold strategy provides understanding about ‘biting’ but gives no explanation about ‘holding’. The lack of conclusive strategies, both political & military types, indicates that at best Cold Start Doctrine can be used for coercive purposes or as a ‘patch’ to enhance the war fighting capabilities of Indian armed forces.
 
. .
#India Is World’s Largest Importer Of #Weapons With Insatiable Hunger, While #Pakistan Slashes #Arms Imports. #Modi #BJP


https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...s-with-insatiable-hunger-while-pakista/309385



Report by Stockholm International Peace Research Institute spotlights India’s floundering attempts to make firearms in India and growing preference of US over Russia as arms supplier.

India continues to be world’s largest importer for major firearms, an indication that Modi government’s Make In India drive for defence sector has faltered.

A report from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute has found that India was the “world’s largest importer of major arms in 2013–17 and accounted for 12 per cent of the global total”.



The report spotlights India’s floundering attempts to make firearms in India. India has managed to get just Rs 1.17 crore as FDI in the defecne sector under the “Make in India” framework.

“FDI of amount $0.18 million has been received in the defence industry sector from April 2014 to December 2017,” said junior defence minister Subhash Bhamre, in a written reply to Lok Sabha recently.

India’s imports increased by 24% between 2008–12 and 2013–17, according to the report and majority of the firearms were sourced from India’s long-time supplier Russia, which accounted for 62 per cent of India’s arms imports in 2013–17.

"Asian and Indian arms procurement in particular are a reflection of the growing security competition in Asia," Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan , a senior fellow at ORF, told Outlook.

--------

Surprisingly, India’s long-time foe has slashed its imports despite its tensions with India and internal conflicts.

“Pakistan’s arms imports decreased by 36 per cent between 2008–12 and 2013–17. Pakistan accounted for 2.8 per cent of global arms imports in 2013–17. Its arms imports from the USA dropped by 76 per cent in 2013–17 compared with 2008–12.”
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom