Pakistan should be named 'People's Republic of Pakistan'

[syedali73]

...not worth my time.

 

[Chak Bamu]

I appreciate your effort . But with all due respect , I totally disagree with your POV, your post is full of factual inaccuracies and baseless assumptions . I would like to discuss all the points you have mentioned . Starting with the role of Mullahs in Pakistan movement (I guess you consider it to be your strongest point) . And I agree with you , this is not the proper thread .

Thanks for your respectful disagreement.

I would like to know about my factual inaccuracies. Please correct me where I am wrong.

About Mullahs - this is not my strong point. I have Sufi leanings and I do not much like Mullahs. But that is no reason for allowing inaccurate opinions to flourish. Anyone who has any pretension of knowledge about Pakistan Movement must study this dimension. Anything beyond superficial familiarity with this subject reveals complex interaction that some people find expedient to ignore and instead peddle simplistic and biased narratives. That is where it becomes my problem.

I have often written about internal contradictions in our national psyche and this issue is one of the major drivers. Hence the relevance of need to discuss this issue.

In any case, I would like to stress that while you have touched on these sensitive issues on this very thread. You might as well explain your position here. This may be a trash thread, but the discussion has grown serious.

 

[nana41]

Iam not even hinin u .

Iam an atheist

You are not an "even Hindu"but an odd one, who presently "believes" in Atheism ?

 

[nana41]

Question is which Islam? if you are talking about the Islam according to which you (or common muslims) are living your life, than indeed, it is a religion of peace. However, if you are talking about political Islam, Islam of Jamaat Islami and Jamiat ulema Islam, than I am sorry to inform you, it is religion of hatred and agony. As Allam Iqbal has said:

دین کافر فکر و تدبیرجھاد
دین ملا فی سبیل اللہ فساد

deen-e-kafir fikr-o-tadbeer-e-jihad
deen-e-mulla fi sabeelillah fasaad

.......but on the other hand TEHZEEB KE FARZAND (secular people) dont like Allama Iqbal's political Islam as well ?

 

[syedali73]

.......but on the other hand TEHZEEB KE FARZAND (secular people) dont like Allama Iqbal's political Islam as well ?

Seculars don't represent a significant percentage of the Pakistani population anyway, so I am not sure of their likeness of dis-likeness means a lot.

 

[Durrak]

Seculars don't represent a significant percentage of the Pakistani population anyway, so I am not sure of their likeness of dis-likeness means a lot.

They concept of Secularism is bit different in our part of world,though I am not in favor of a secular state but the people are giving wrong idea of Secularism.

 

[syedali73]

They concept of Secularism is bit different in our part of world,though I am not in favor of a secular state but the people are giving wrong idea of Secularism.

You are right. In our part of the world, we think seculars as 'ladeen', someone who does not follow any religion, atheist, or communist sort of thing. Whereas in civilized part of the world, a secular is a person who is tolerant towards other beliefs.

 

[Durrak]

You are right. In our part of the world, we think seculars as 'ladeen', someone who does not follow any religion, atheist, or communist sort of thing. Whereas in civilized part of the world, a secular is a person who is tolerant towards other beliefs.

It's more like,live and let live ..

 

[nana41]

You are right. In our part of the world, we think seculars as 'ladeen', someone who does not follow any religion, atheist, or communist sort of thing. Whereas in civilized part of the world, a secular is a person who is tolerant towards other beliefs.

I happened to be living in a "civilised" part of the world,where the meaning of secularism is,a system ,where the state regards religion a private matter and does not let it interfere or influence the constitution/legislature.Ruling classes i,e Politicians,Bureaucracy ,media and elite of army in Pakistan have always been secular in thinking and practice.Anti Islam forces in and out of the country are presenting the prevailing "system" as Islamic and thus finding it easy to attack and ridicule.Hence ,secular is the one who makes rules as he goes along,without any regard to any religion...............Siasat ne mazhab se peecha churraya.......chali na peer e kalisa ki peeri [Allama Iqbal (ra)}.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

U talked all bout the Symptoms. Temme bout the cause.

the cause of the anger? ask yourself that question

 

[EasyNow]

I happened to be living in a "civilised" part of the world,where the meaning of secularism is,a system ,where the state regards religion a private matter and does not let it interfere or influence the constitution/legislature.Ruling classes i,e Politicians,Bureaucracy ,media and elite of army in Pakistan have always been secular in thinking and practice.Anti Islam forces in and out of the country are presenting the prevailing "system" as Islamic and thus finding it easy to attack and ridicule.Hence ,secular is the one who makes rules as he goes along,without any regard to any religion...............Siasat ne mazhab se peecha churraya.......chali na peer e kalisa ki peeri [Allama Iqbal (ra)}.

Can you elaborate please? I happen to think the UK is a perfect example of secular governance at work.

 

[nana41]

Can you elaborate please? I happen to think the UK is a perfect example of secular governance at work.

England is a good example of a secular country.Its constitution is not based on Bible,but when need arise ,The king or queen can become the protector of the "Faith".

 

[M. Sarmad]

Thanks for your respectful disagreement.

I would like to know about my factual inaccuracies. Please correct me where I am wrong.

About Mullahs - this is not my strong point. I have Sufi leanings and I do not much like Mullahs. But that is no reason for allowing inaccurate opinions to flourish. Anyone who has any pretension of knowledge about Pakistan Movement must study this dimension. Anything beyond superficial familiarity with this subject reveals complex interaction that some people find expedient to ignore and instead peddle simplistic and biased narratives. That is where it becomes my problem.

I have often written about internal contradictions in our national psyche and this issue is one of the major drivers. Hence the relevance of need to discuss this issue.

In any case, I would like to stress that while you have touched on these sensitive issues on this very thread. You might as well explain your position here. This may be a trash thread, but the discussion has grown serious.

Ulema and Pakistan Movement

 

[WAR-rior]

the cause of the anger? ask yourself that question

I did and found a very simple answer.

The cross questions again arise is,

Fuget bout Kashmir for a sec. Why are Muslims suffering not only in our region but infact every corner of this world? Even out of them, Sunnis are on the biggest recieving side. I always ask why exactly? Have they done so bad to the world that they are now being taken revenge? I mean, why exactly target 1 community. The Answer lies within.

You guyz have gotten into ur beliefs so so much that others' beliefs have become for you a mere stuff. The whole concept of Momin and Kafir has become so strong now that you guyz believe that Kafir is the one who dont deserve to live in this world. Now even you know how are people killed in name of being Kafir. Infact, earlier it was a non Muslim who was a Kafir, Today this concept has gotten into for other sects too. An Ahmahdiya, Shia is also a Kafir for some and many.

Why in India, Shia, Bohri Muslims abd even Parsis are more prosperous than Hindus?

The answer lies withing the people themselves. Think about it.

Muslims, especially Sunnis wat to dominate their lifestyle anywhere they go irrespective of whether its conducive to the Lawz of that land. Recent examples of Aussi, France, Denmark, Nether where they were adamantly refused for altercations of local laws just coz some immigrant wants it. Rightly so, You went to some other country to better ur life, not force change them their rules coz your great religion asks for so. This the the attitude thats problematic.

Said that, In Kashmir it was always bout KASHMIRIAT. Who was the one who made it Hindu- Muslim affair? Think again.

This whole massacre of 1L Kashmiris was result of those forfieting their millenia old lyfstyle of SYNCRETISM where Kashmiri Hindu eat Beef dishes made by Muslims Kashmiris. Muslim Kashmiris owned the businesses for tourism during Vaishnodevi pilgrimage.

But post 1989, Kashmiriat was killed and overceded by Communalism. Are you guyz ready to take this responsibility to kill a complete culture in name of your fake 2 nation theory?

Arre north India tak theek tha ye but why enforce it on the Kashmiris typically.

But you know, Majority of Kashmiris have refuted your communal stand. Why do u think National Conference win landslide in elections against Hurriyat Conference even if its the peaceful, non militant version of Muslim Leauge Conference, for past 70+ years?

Coz even today majority of Kashmiris are for their Kashmiriat and reject communal divide.

Dont cry bout Kashmir and Kashmirirs coz they are not your so called Muslim brothers and all. They are exploited more by Muslims in their age old History than anyone else. You only cry bout Kashmir coz its associated with ur Ego against India and no other reason.

You guyz r responsible to kill the syncretic nature of Kashmir and supercede it with communalism destroying the very soul of Kashmir.

ARE U READY TO TAKE RESPONSIBILY FOR IT ? Take responsibility of superimposing ur 2 nation theory even on Kashmiris without understanding them?

 

[jatt+gutts]

which Pakistani freedom fighters were involved in freedom movement? I dunno any ? can pakistanis name some ? Pakistanis were fine being pithus of goras.