Pakistan protests India glacier tourism plan

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Supporting.

Siachen is not India's. It is occupied by India.
I thought these questions were pretty self explanatory. Yet, i am surprised.

That can be said about Pakistan too. But then, it is history. Surprises never cease!

Secondly, I dont expect both of us to teach each other whose land it is. Rather, what can we do to solve it!

Statements like The only way to win with such a neighbour is by war. Yes, guys. The final solution" are hardly indicative of seeking a amicable solution!

But, i am unsure of Indian intentions to solve anything!

Same could be said of Pakistani intentions. But then, all this old hat! And it leads to nowhere

Salim sahib, after the editting. It is much more mature.

Thank you!.

I try to make it as inoffensive as I can.

It is not my aim to indulge in the same old stereotypes that one has seen of yore. I am seeking new pastures (and I am not a farmer as some who do not understand the language feel and then pass it off as 'humour') wherein one can build bridges as far as feasible!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Every Inch of your Land is worth more then our live. & Sichain not even a Inch, meter, but it is a whole valley that was captured by deceive & you say it does not worth anything.

&
-We have lost our best soldiers,
-We are fighting over it from last 22 year, j
-We have Risked the lives of our finest ones,
-We Risked our Pride over it.
-We knew that we are not prepared for it but still send our soldiers.
-We knew that we dont have proper eqipment still send our soldiers.
-We Knew that there is less probability of their return bcoz of the weather.
===All this just bcoz it got no worth ??

Every inch of our Land worth more then our Lives & we will fight for it till end, whether you solve it peacefully or by war, now that ball is i the court of india.

What makes you feel that our Land is not worth more than our lives? What makes you feel that we lack the fervour that you possess?

If fight is the only answer that you can visualise, who can stop such thinking and actions? If war is thrust on us, then, even though most reluctantly (since it lead to nowhere) we will have to engage in this pursuit since every inch is precious and worth more than our lives - it is an ideal that cannot be allowed to be violated by aggression by any adversary!

It will be good to remember that to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Saradar Manmohan is doing just that in Siachen - supreme excellence consists in breaking Pakistan's claim without fighting.

If one is not prepared and is ill equipped and still wishes to fight, then it is a very odd and obtuse a contention that you put forth. Or is it that having failed, one is finding excuses? The US has always supplied its best to Pakistan. So where is cause for the lament about poor equipment or lack of preparedness?

Do please give some intelligence and credit to the Pakistani Army and its Generals. They are not madcaps to have a war unprepared and ill equipped. It appears that I have more regards for them than you!

 

[IceCold]

self deleted

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Icecold,

You may doubt my sincerity about my regard for the Pakistani Army.

I have reagrds since I have in been wars and other confrontations.

In the battle of Barapind, the commanding officer of 39th FF,Lieutenant Colonel Akram Raja led the senseless attack and it is best to quote the Indians who were all praise for the gallantry of this indomitable battalion and were shocked at the senselessness of the whole affair.
Battle of Barapind-Jarpal 16 Dec 1971

I might remind you that Lt Col (later Lt Gen) VP Airy handed out a commendation to the Pakistanis praise the CO for his bravery and on the basis of which the Pakistani govt awarded the gallantry award to the Lt Col CO! Possibly, it is the first where a medal was won on the enemy's commendation. Yes, it was brave action, even if a bit senseless as Maj AGHA HUMAYUN AMIN (Retd) in this link wishes to state.

Equally, I commend the action of Captain Karnal Sher Khan in the Kargil Battle. And I was there.

Therefore, please don't assume and attribute your sentiments on others.

As soldiers, one appreciates valour and gallantry!

In so far as blaming your govt etc for Kargil and how you could avenge 1971, there is no reason to trot out excuses as what you could or could not do. It does not gel!

The proof of the pudding is in the eating!

If you could, you would.

Excuses don't change history. People get the govt they deserve. It is your votes and if you are not intelligent enough, blame your Maker, and importantly, yourself and not your govt or trot out excuses.

Abusive language is the weapon of the weak and those who have no facts to offer.

kah tum logon na apni bund ka zaroor laga dia tha

Good to see you have self deleted the post!

Facts do win over delusion and abuses!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

self deleted

Good see you have self deleted the post.

This for the record lest I am misunderstood and don't go through another ignominy as the Dimesnion post that made the whole thread vanish and then surface in the Trash bin very appropriately!

Again for the record:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
With all due respect to your intellect and education, sir, may I state that you do not know English and more so, idiomatic English.

If I may take the liberty of educating you, 'moving to new pastures' has nothing to do with farmlands, farmers, sheep or grazing. It is idiomatic.
Yes, I don't know English and that is why I am typing in Brahui. But you definately understand Brahui because your forefathers taught it to you before they left you alone in this cold, cold world! Talking about cold world I understand that you have many family problems as a result of your illiteracy and your unstable condition which makes it hard for you to bring back food for your family everyday! I know of the trouble you go through every day! But don't worry I am here to support you! Idiomatic? What is that? Are you talking between the hallucinations here or are you having a vision or terrible dream in the sterilized operation theatre where you are being treated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
Idiom means:

the usual way in which the words of a particular language are joined together to express thought

a phrase, construction, or expression that is recognized as a unit in the usage of a given language and either differs from the usual syntactic patterns or has a meaning that differs from the literal meaning of its parts taken together (Ex.: not a word did she say; she heard it straight from the horse‘s mouth)

May I recommend that you buy McMordi's "Idioms and Idiomatic English" and go through Fowler's series on the English Language and Grammar. Will do you a world of good. I agree English is a complicated language and it is not for everyone to be proficient, let alone to master it! I am still but a novice!
Woah! What words thou useth! Thy words charm my heart outeth! Like the rose bloometh!

I would have to say that Shakespeare had lost his son and we have found him in India! I can see that you have his characteristics in you exept that you are illiterate which is definately a gift to you!... well i must say you talk exactly like him even though you are illiterate!

Tell me something... are you Shakespeares legitimate son or illegitimate one? Did you find your mother yet or whoever gave birth to you? How did you find your way to Kalkutta? Were you kidnapped when you were a baby by Shakespeares step-brother and sent to India?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
May I also recommend that you keep to the factuals and not the emotionals?

However, I confess, I am equally amused, but for different reasons. Maybe the lack of grip over the language is why there is the communication gap!
No emotions? Okay I will try to think like a man-eating tiger from the jungle rather than a human being. We should have no feelings at all! Maybe this is the law in India!

True, you are Shakespeares lost son and your control over the language is definately stronger as you have inherited it from your father even though you are a poor illiterate farmer considering suicide! So Shakespeare also knew Brahui? Why did you not tell me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
It is not very wise to be cleverer than half when one is not too sure if one is on a sticky wicket. And the statement has nothing to do with slicing yourself in two as you go embark into raptures of laughter or with cricket either!

In so far as those who find India insufferable, be they of any religious hues or ethnicity, I would remind them to be like Lord Byron who was expelled from England. He had said, "If I am not fit for England, then England is not fit for me!"
Sticky wicket? Well let me write a book on you... i wonder what the book should be called? Maybe we should call it The "chronicles of Shakespeares son" or "the legacy of Shakespeare: Salim, son of the tiger"

Well done! You want them to leave India rather than being ashamed for how people like you treat them. This is the attitude which these muslims have to suffer each and everyday which makes them feel unloyal! Please continue... we accept these people in our country because we need these educated people in Pakistan while i can understand how dire Indias needs for illiterate people is to keep the hatred for us burning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
Therefore, my advice is:

Why suffer? Go where your heart is. Go where there is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. (That is also idiomatic and so don't tell me that there is no pot at the end of the rainbow!).
You got me! That was what I was going to say... I must congratulate you as you are truelly wise!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
Good to know you, sir!

My compliments to you, sir, for your profound knowledge from this poor deprived (I have no farm, unlike the Pakistani army men with jagirs!) illiterate!
I thank you for your compliments and I must admit that I am absolutely flattered! I think you should propose for the English queens hand in marriage. Well you said you were a farmer. So what are you? A Nomad who moves from place to place with his cattle looking for new pastures? Naaah, but atleast the army men aren't killing themselves because they can't support themselves and their families.

Next time when you reply to a post from me please use a lot of Idioms as I would say that is the part of your writing I enjoy most

If a non Pakistani had written this, he would have been hauled over the coals!

It is most painful to find that the person has not only been personal, but he has even brought in my family! Is that Pakistani culture and tradition? I wonder.

Is there no decency in the bones? I reject Dimesnsion as the typical Pakistanis since I know many who are decent, cultured and immensely polite. Urdu is a language of culture and it is the national language of Pakistan.

I did not report because one has to understand!

Yet, I steel myself since I would hate to stoop to such abysmally low levels!

 

[IceCold]

I didnt deleted the post coz i was so impressed by your posts, rather i felt it against the forum rules and so i deleted it. And before you wite something regarding paksitani culture have a look at your own. Since you have read my post which i didnt intented to and that is the reason i deleted it, i still hold by it and thats what truth is.

 

[solid snake]

The Indian army captured this glacier when even US military maps showed this as Pakistani territory during the 80s. There is no solution to this except a military operation. India will never vacate this area any other way.

 

[Marathaman]

The Indian army captured this glacier when even US military maps showed this as Pakistani territory during the 80s. There is no solution to this except a military operation. India will never vacate this area any other way.

Since when did USA maps dictate what land belongs to whom? USA was Pakistan's ally. Its quite obvious that their maps would favour Pakistan.

I don't think its very smart to start a war over a tiny glacier, which will have no positive effect on Pakistan whatsoever.

 

[Awesome]

I wonder if it is a good thing to open up the Glacier to civilians.

I don't buy the reason that Pakistan had given permission for mountaineers and so we should do the same.

Ridiculous rationale.

All it would do is to reinforce to the world that it is with India. As if they did not know!

However, it is a more plausible reason that with western mountaineers overpopulating the area, none would think of any aggression lest the westerners are killed with its ramifications thereafter!

If that is the reason then Sardar Manmohan is being too clever by half!

Isn't the point not to be clever?

Wait a while work out an agreement... It seems close, another 3-4 years won't hurt the Indian economy.

The point you noted is exactly why it shouldn't be done. If a westerner dies, India will say Pakistanis did it, Pak would say India did it and the whole process derails.

 

[solid snake]

Since when did USA maps dictate what land belongs to whom? USA was Pakistan's ally. Its quite obvious that their maps would favour Pakistan.

I don't think its very smart to start a war over a tiny glacier, which will have no positive effect on Pakistan whatsoever.

There won't be a war right now. But in a few years time after Pakistan strengthens it's military and the economy has been on a growth path for a few solid years and when the war in Afghanistan and the accompanying terrorist attacks in Pakistan are gone, snow is going to hit the fan in Siachin.

One day out of nowhere there will be a conflict bursting out in that region. It probably will not escalate to a full scale war just like Kargil didn't, so it's all good. But India better watch it's back, cause we'll come to get what's ours.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I didnt deleted the post coz i was so impressed by your posts, rather i felt it against the forum rules and so i deleted it. And before you wite something regarding paksitani culture have a look at your own. Since you have read my post which i didnt intented to and that is the reason i deleted it, i still hold by it and thats what truth is.

Of course, you are such a disciplined person.

Nothing usual I presume in living in a state of denial!


But enough, I have made my point.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Indian army captured this glacier when even US military maps showed this as Pakistani territory during the 80s. There is no solution to this except a military operation. India will never vacate this area any other way.

The US is not the bottomline of existence, at least, not to India.

It is but natural the question of vacating does not arise.

If Pakistan has to undertake a military operation as she has tried many a time, then she must.

India shall, ofcourse, as usual, defend and then may go into a counteroffensive, situation demanding.

But such an eventuality, I wish never comes.

 

[Marathaman]

There won't be a war right now. But in a few years time after Pakistan strengthens it's military and the economy has been on a growth path for a few solid years and when the war in Afghanistan and the accompanying terrorist attacks in Pakistan are gone, snow is going to hit the fan in Siachin.

One day out of nowhere there will be a conflict bursting out in that region. It probably will not escalate to a full scale war just like Kargil didn't, so it's all good. But India better watch it's back, cause we'll come to get what's ours.

We will eagerly wait for the day Pakistan decides to make this mistake (yet again!!!)
WIll you have the decency to send your soldiers in uniform this time, rather than in mujahideen fancy dress costumes?

Jeez....stop trying already. Don't you know when to give up?

 

[solid snake]

The US is not the bottomline of existence, at least, not to India.

It is but natural the question of vacating does not arise.

If Pakistan has to undertake a military operation as she has tried many a time, then she must.

India shall, ofcourse, as usual, defend and then may go into a counteroffensive, situation demanding.

But such an eventuality, I wish never comes.

Do you really expect there to be no conflict in that area ever again? No, that is not possible.

 

[solid snake]

We will eagerly wait for the day Pakistan decides to make this mistake (yet again!!!)
WIll you have the decency to send your soldiers in uniform this time, rather than in mujahideen fancy dress costumes?

Jeez....stop trying already. Don't you know when to give up?

Everyone wears white military winter jacket suits up there.

And Siachen is a place where all of India's percieved military advantages are cancelled out. Up there it's just about a man and his gun and guts. Advantages are in the form of heights which India currently holds, but obviously this can be neutralized by surprising India. Like always, the Indian chowkidar will be asleep and then cry "humein sonay kion diya"?

Last time in Kargil Pakistan did not support the handful of men who took Indian outposts. In Siachin the PAF and PA will, so it will be a very different story my friend.