Featured Pakistan Navy Type 054AP Frigates - Update, News & Discussion

[LKJ86]

yes i know it broASW Frigates, but how about that Type-54 will converted to AD frigate according to PN need and specifications that my whole point is possible bro @LKJ86

Of course, Type 054A can be converted to the AD frigate according to the need of PN.
But IMHO, it is not enough to against IN. The VLS of Type 054A or its upgraded version just can be equipped with HQ-16B and Yu-8, while Type 052D with HHQ-9B and YJ-18.
Besides, Type 052D has its powerful 346A radars.

 

[Armchair]

Not really... There are no reports about Pak buying I Class.. But Ada class...

The only frigatea turkey has are "Planned" TF series which are still to be produced.

The DAMEN ships are also OPVs .. Not really corvettes.


So as of right now you only have:

8 frigates
4 corvettes

We will just have to agree to disagree. You should read this forum more perhaps, particularly by the well-respected Turkish members here.

One thing that distinguishes the more serious members here from the others, is the ability to see what the other party is saying, without necessarily jumping the gun to say that person is wrong.

About the Damen boats, if you read what I wrote earlier:

Only thing missing are corvettes. Something in the 1000-1500 tons. Damens - 2x are all that seems to be in this bracket

Again, it seems you jumped the gun. Meaning that the discussion level goes to the intellectual level of school kids.

Let alone discussion of what capabilities these boats may or may not have. Anyways, that's my last reply, I don't enjoy such conversations.

 

[khanasifm]

It looks like folks suggesting eat cake if there is no bread or cannot afford one

 

[YeBeWarned]

A further order for 6 more "enhanced" type frigates is on the cards after this program is completed, with also a couple of destroyer types to be used as "flagships".

What you are seeing now is the beginning of the re-birth of the PN as a true modern middle level, 4 dimension navy.

I bet it would be additional Type 54 but upgraded one's .. as for DDG it will most likely be 52D's ..

4 Type 54A
4 Type 54B
4 Milgem ADA or LF-2400
2 Type 52D as Flag Ships
6-8 Azmat Class FAC's
2 Damen OPV
2-4 Swift Ship Corvette
6-8 AIP Submarines

this should our Navy looks like in 2030 ..

 

[araz]

low cost long term loans are making all this happen. My guess is these loans are at very favorable conditions.

So thats:
4 54A
4 F-22P
4 Milgem

That's already 12 frigates. And 1 destroyer (OHP, flagship, showboat). 6 more would make it 18 frigates, and assuming 2 Type 52s (used or new), that's 18 FFG and 3DDGs.

Only thing missing are corvettes. Something in the 1000-1500 tons. Damens - 2x are all that seems to be in this bracket but they are going to be 2000 tons fully loaded. Possibly up-armed with Harpoons and CIWS. You're probably missing 4x-10x 1000 ton corvettes.

If more 054 are being ordered then perhaps we might vet aMilgem in the Corvette role as a part of a flotilla. Ithink the next move sbould be development/licence production of A2A missiles and incorporation on the ships.
A

It looks like folks suggesting eat cake if there is no bread or cannot afford one

I think it is slow development over 10-15 yrs. Nothing will happen barring small corvette acquisition.
A

 

[Rafi]

I bet it would be additional Type 54 but upgraded one's .. as for DDG it will most likely be 52D's ..

4 Type 54A
4 Type 54B
4 Milgem ADA or LF-2400
2 Type 52D as Flag Ships
6-8 Azmat Class FAC's
2 Damen OPV
2-4 Swift Ship Corvette
6-8 AIP Submarines

this should our Navy looks like in 2030 ..

Not sure about which type but the PN does want in the next decade or so a fleet air defence ship.

 

[LKJ86]

Ithink the next move sbould be development/licence production of A2A missiles and incorporation on the ships.

Something like this?

 

[Armchair]

If more 054 are being ordered then perhaps we might vet aMilgem in the Corvette role as a part of a flotilla. Ithink the next move sbould be development/licence production of A2A missiles and incorporation on the ships.
A


I think it is slow development over 10-15 yrs. Nothing will happen barring small corvette acquisition.
A

I just think it makes more sense to get the Milgem with proper air defence... imagine this 325 million for type 54A, 260 million or thereabout for Milgem.

Three issues with the argument of Ada as a corvette:

1. RUMINT from Turkish members
2. Comparative role of corvette in naval fleets
3. Actual tonnage of the Ada

If you see the Turkish members, they are suggesting its been upgraded to the I-class.

Conceptually it doesn't make sense for PN to go for corvettes that are nearly frigates, tonnage wise. Corvettes are meant to be the lowest rated warships in a fleet. With a fleet that doesn't really have proper destroyers, it needs something that can fit that role.

I'd imagine corvettes in the US fleet or some big, power projecting fleet to have a tonnage that is nearly that of a frigate. With the LCS we have seen exactly that. But for a service like PN, it doesn't make sense to have no real corvettes, excepts ones that are marginally (by 100 tons) classed into the corvette range.

Even China's corvettes are 1500 tons and Russias are 800 tons. It makes a lot more sense to have something that is actually a corvette and not nominally so.

Remember also that its 2400 tons, but whats the tonnage fully loaded? Probably still crosses 2500 tons.

Would PN want to say it has X+4 numbers of frigates or X number of frigates and 4 corvettes? Which makes them sound better? Also, if we look at the history of PN, PN has never downgraded the classification of a second hand ship, rather, historically it has chosen to often uprate the ship rating. So a frigate is more likely to get called a destroyer and a corvette more likely to get called a frigate.

I could be wrong of course : )

 

[Basel]

Of course, Type 054A can be converted to the AD frigate according to the need of PN.
But IMHO, it is not enough to against IN. The VLS of Type 054A or its upgraded version just can be equipped with HQ-16B and Yu-8, while Type 052D with HHQ-9B and YJ-18.
Besides, Type 052D has its powerful 346A radars.

With 16 HQ-16N & 16x4 DK-10 it will make quite capable AAW ship for PN, but PN will use it as multi role ship and may arm it as mission requirements.

For those who think milgem are not required then they just dont understand the threat Pakistan faced from IN submarine fleet, PN is doing right thing as milgem are very stealthy design and enemy submarines will not be able to find them easily compared to other ships like F-22P or Type-54As.

 

[LKJ86]

For those who think milgem are not required then they just dont understand the threat Pakistan faced from IN submarine fleet, PN is doing right thing as milgem are very stealthy design and enemy submarines will not be able to find them easily compared to other ships like F-22P or Type-54As.

Do you mean that the submarines of IN find their targets mainly by their radars?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

We will just have to agree to disagree. You should read this forum more perhaps, particularly by the well-respected Turkish members here.

One thing that distinguishes the more serious members here from the others, is the ability to see what the other party is saying, without necessarily jumping the gun to say that person is wrong.

About the Damen boats, if you read what I wrote earlier:



Again, it seems you jumped the gun. Meaning that the discussion level goes to the intellectual level of school kids.

Let alone discussion of what capabilities these boats may or may not have. Anyways, that's my last reply, I don't enjoy such conversations.

Im sure you are a distinguised well respected, intellectual while im whatever you say im in your intellectual butthurt rage.

However that said, MILGEMs are classified as Corvettes by none other than the Turkish MOD.
https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/milgem_class_corvett/

Its TF-100 & 1000 classes are classified as Frigates... and your well respected etc Turkish members arent related to Turkish MOD but speculating about a contract which is yet to be signed.



While DAMEN Ships are classfied as OPVs meaning "Offshore Patrolling Vessels" ... and they come with the same capabiliies unless upgraded.

In in its official press release, Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) states that the new OPV will have a length of 90 m, top speed of 22 knots and full-load displacement of 1,900 tons.

As per the MoDP, the multi-mission OPV “is especially suited for anti surface [and] anti air operations, maritime security operations, day [and] night helicopter operations, combat search and rescue, and surveillance and intelligence gathering operations.”

 

[Zarvan]

you know what is the meaning of layered anti missile concepts @Zarvan every major countries is developing layered anti missile defense system including USA, Russia, EU, China, as for striking deep inside india we have BM GLCM for that purpose, if we launch BABUR from sukker/Thar we have able to whole southern india and what about $$$$$$$$$$, Type -52D 1 unit price is nearly 1 billion $, so how can we purchase 10-12 @Zarvan this mean we will utilizing whole pakistani defense budget for purchasing 10-12 Type-52 D, now who have the chidlish points @Zarvan and how do know harba has a range of 300 Km, no ones knows harba range its currenly classified, oh i forget Naval chief telling the range of harba @Zarvan

No layered Air Defense system can stop Cruise Missiles Janab specially when 40 to 60 are fired at you at once. Your Type 54 won't even know what hit it. As for Karachi and Gawader even if you deploy THAAD and S 400 and HQ 9 B to protect these cities still most Brahmos and Nirbhay will hit the targets and you can't stop them. But if we have similar ships at least 12 in number to do same to Indian cities on that fear would keep India at Bay.

 

[Ultima Thule]

No layered Air Defense system can stop Cruise Missiles Janab specially when 40 to 60 are fired at you at once. Your Type 54 won't even know what hit it. As for Karachi and Gawader even if you deploy THAAD and S 400 and HQ 9 B to protect these cities still most Brahmos and Nirbhay will hit the targets and you can't stop them. But if we have similar ships at least 12 in number to do same to Indian cities on that fear would keep India at Bay.

in which world do you live in HAZRAT @Zarvan your above mention SAMs system has a main job of intercepting jets and ABM, i am talking about to put H-9B H-16, and FL-3000 on Type-54, last two are capable of intercepting of supersonic anti ship cruise missiles LACM fired from arabian sea toward Pakistan @Zarvan as for defense of karachi and gawader there are land version of H-16 called LY-80 @Zarvan and what weapons on Type-52D you think @Zarvan

 

[Zarvan]

in which world do you live in HAZRAT @Zarvan your above mention SAMs system has a main job of intercepting jets and ABM, i am talking about to put H-9B H-16, and FL-3000 on Type-54, last two are capable of intercepting of supersonic anti ship cruise missiles LACM fired from arabian sea toward Pakistan @Zarvan as for defense of karachi and gawader there are land version of H-16 called LY-80 @Zarvan and what weapons on Type-52D you think @Zarvan

And I am saying India won't fire one Cruise Missile at you so you can intercept it. It would be rain of cruise Missiles which they would fire through their Destroyers and no Air Defense can stop that attack. Syrians Air Defense failed to get rid of Tomahawk all reached their targets. You are living in wrong world not me. You are living in bubble that layered Air Defense can save you no it won't. Only thing which will keep Indians away is realization that we can do same to Banglaru and Chennai and Hyderabad.

 

[Ultima Thule]

And I am saying India won't fire one Cruise Missile at you so you can intercept it. It would be rain of cruise Missiles which they would fire through their Destroyers and no Air Defense can stop that attack. Syrians Air Defense failed to get rid of Tomahawk all reached their targets. You are living in wrong world not me. You are living in bubble that layered Air Defense can save you no it won't. Only thing which will keep Indians away is realization that we can do same to Banglaru and Chennai and Hyderabad.

You're out of extraordinary genius/ stupid @Zarvan that layered defense for covering whole missile spectrum CM to BM form land to air/sea/oceans like SM-6/3 ABM/Jets, RAM, ESSM for supersonic cruise missile and from land Patriot for Jets/ABM (SRBM) , THAAD for (MRBM/IRBM) MID COURSE DEFENSE SYSTEMS for ICBM, so why US developing those systems @Zarvan just for fun @Zarvan