Pakistan Army received it's first Agusta Westland 139 Helicopter.

[ACE OF THE AIR]

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...mber-of-agustawestland-aw139-choppers.432061/
@HAIDER

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

With a population of 220 million why can't we build our own choppers :/ whatever we buy from others is a burden on economy as we would need their assistance always for services and spare parts in future

Welcome to the forum..

1) The issue is not every one is going to buy these. Though there could be a significant demand in the future.
2) Pakistan does not make Engines.
3) Aircraft or Helicopters are designed around the engines.

 

[Jhon Smith]

Welcome to the forum..

1) The issue is not every one is going to buy these. Though there could be a significant demand in the future.
2) Pakistan does not make Engines.
3) Aircraft or Helicopters are designed around the engines.

Aviation industry has so much potential its not simple matter of availability of potential buyers , aviation industry bring many other aspects to any nation!!

Noticed the wiki page for Pakistan Aviation corps is missing the 11 Agusta helicopters we are already suppose to have also the Navy page has no mention of existing 11 Agusta

If someone makes regular updates perhaps the Aviation corps page for Pakistan should be updated or under the Navy

I imagine the new batch would be on top of the existing 11 as the article stated

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...nd-aw139-choppers.432061/page-5#ixzz49okMJPTI

And other thing that news title are misleading , its not Military ordered them, Its civil Govt are buying them for civil use.Wonder why Govt need 10 helicopters?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Great upgrade to the capability of the forces over the existing platform

Is the AEROSPATIALE 316/319 ALOUETTE-III locally manufactured in Pakistan

I found few areas where it was stated this helicopter is manufactured in Pakistan since 80's ?


New platform can carry 14 people vs the old platform which could carry 2 extra people in back seats

Twin Engine

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan signs up for more AW139 helos
Gabriel Dominguez, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

Pakistan has signed a contract for an undisclosed number of AgustaWestland AW139 intermediate twin-engine helicopters, Italian defence group Leonardo-Finmeccanica announced on 24 May.

The contract is part of a fleet renewal programme spread over several batches, including a logistic support and training package. The AW139s, deliveries of which are expected in 2017, will be used to perform search-and-rescue (SAR) operations across the country, said the AgustaWestland parent company.

A total of 11 AW139s are already in service in Pakistan, with five aircraft operated for government relief and transportation duties.

http://www.janes.com/article/60600/pakistan-signs-up-for-more-aw139-helos

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Generally in order to better Patrol the border zones, having ample Helicopter force + UAV force is need of modern times in Pakistan

Action force , that can reach hot spots quickly together with some Satellite based recon of border zones

The Civilian Variants existing 11 AgustaWestland AW139 should be moved into Military Aviation as they have capacity to carry (16) troops and rescue missions. Plus obviously the new units ordered


Civilian use should be restricted to a smaller model like Sarkozy (6 People Capacity)
Such platform is more inline with Corporate Business Users and Delegates

6 Copters for Provincial Usage (divided between Provincial Government) , Make booking and then use the unit

AgustaWestland AW139 is better in hands of Military or Navy or Border Units

 

[Jhon Smith]

Generally in order to better Patrol the border zones, having ample Helicopter force + UAV force is need of modern times in Pakistan

Action force , that can reach hot spots quickly together with some Satellite based recon of border zones



6 Copters for Provincial Usage (divided between Provincial Government) , Make booking and then use the unit


AgustaWestland AW139 is better in hands of Military or Navy or Border Units

The Money Pak going to give Italy, almost with same amount of money Russia are making new high speed helicopters , its better Pak use that money to build make own helicopter engines


Special report for MT

Russia's already world-class helicopter industry will see a 7.5 billion ruble ($213 million) injection of funds to develop a high-speed helicopter and bump up Russia's production capacity, Deputy Industry and Trade Minister Yury Slyusar announced at a news conference Tuesday.

A 7.5 billion ruble co-financing agreement between the government and state-owned Russian Helicopters, Russia's second-largest defense contractor behind Almaz-Antei, aims to produce a new high-speed helicopter by 2020 and guarantee Russia's place at the cutting edge of the industry.




Russia's High Speed Helicopters get Government Billions to Boost Production

• By Matthew Bodner
• May. 13 2014 21:26
• Last edited 21:27

Vitaly Kuzmin / WikimediaA Russian Helicopters Mi-38 heavy lift helicopter, made for civilian use, standing on the tarmac awaiting takeoff.
Special report for MT

Russia's already world-class helicopter industry will see a 7.5 billion ruble ($213 million) injection of funds to develop a high-speed helicopter and bump up Russia's production capacity, Deputy Industry and Trade Minister Yury Slyusar announced at a news conference Tuesday.

A 7.5 billion ruble co-financing agreement between the government and state-owned Russian Helicopters, Russia's second-largest defense contractor behind Almaz-Antei, aims to produce a new high-speed helicopter by 2020 and guarantee Russia's place at the cutting edge of the industry.

Russian Helicopters, which had a 14 percent share of the global helicopter market and revenue of 60 billion rubles ($1.7 billion) in 2012, has made similar co-financing agreements with the government in the past, resulting in the development of Ka-62 transport and Mi-38 heavy lift helicopter.

"High-speed helicopters are the future," said Ruslan Puchov, head of the Moscow-based defense think tank Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. Experimental prototypes of high-speed helicopters have reached speeds of more than 400 kilometers per hour, while current military helicopters travel at about 300 kilometers per hour.

To guarantee the success of the high-speed helicopter program, Slyusar promised state investment to expand the scientific and technological base supporting Russia's helicopter industry.

This new infrastructure will fill out existing helicopter production facilities near Rostov-on-Don in southern Russia, which is likely to be where the high-speed chopper will eventually start rolling off the production line.

The Rostov facility produces military helicopters, such as the Mi-26 heavy lifter and attack helicopters such as the Mi-24 and 25, as well as the Mi-28 "night-hunter," Russia's answer to the U.S.-made Apache.

Slyusar said that Rostov would also serve also as a repair center for Russian helicopters and a training center for pilots and technical staff.

The helicopter industry is one of the country's strongest high-technology sectors, enjoying a prominent position on the global market in both civilian and military applications. But it is also a globally integrated industry with certain dependencies on foreign components.

"The major dependence is on engines made in Ukraine," Pukhov said. Russia took steps to ease this dependence after the Orange Revolution in 2004, when popular protests in Ukraine's capital, Kiev, against a rigged presidential election forced the Russian sponsored candidate, Victor Yanukovych, to surrender power. But Russia still produces only about 100 helicopter engines in St. Petersburg a year — far short of the 350 to 400 engines needed by producers.

This is no problem for the Air Force and related ministries — domestic engine production can cover their requirements, Pukhov said. But he added that supply disruptions from Ukraine will potentially damage "all civilian buyers of Russian helicopters, and especially overseas customers like India, China, and the U.S., which purchased Mi-17 helicopters for the Afghan Defense Ministry."


http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/500080.html

10 Million USD man that's a bit expensive for us imo

WASHINGTON — A global push to grow domestic defense industries will have a dramatic impact on the Western defense export market over the next decade, a new report is warning.

Authored by Daniel Yoon and Doug Berenson, the report by Avascent, “Dynamics of International Military Modernization 2016,” concludes that while many challengers will emerge, the trio of Israel, South Korea and Brazil provide the most immediate threats to Western markets

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...e-imperiled-local-programs-avascent/84861496/

https://www.facebook.com/RussianHelicopters/

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the Military must have wanted to diversify their assets , and perhaps have analyzed the performance of AgustaWestland AW139 closely to decide on the platform.

It is a ideal platform in term of carriage and Price for Military needs

Obviously one can also argue that the Italians also had a bigger meaner helicopter to offer on the table as well

AgustaWestland AW101 another wonderful product but perhaps too much for our present needs

Pakistan did recently decide on SEA KING for the Tanker fleet

Alouette III perhaps should be given to the border patrol duties and light air support
We had this platform for the navy but don't see how the glass enclosure can give protection against bullets

City Patrol would be more suited or urban areas

The platform severely lacked ability to rescue at land and sea

 

[somebozo]

Very rich country ,...

Overview.
The AW139 is classified as a large helicopter, and can be used for the following missions: Corporate, Firefighting, Medical, Military, Oil & Gas, Parapublic, and Police. The approximate base price of this rotorcraft is$10 million, which is 35% more expensive than the average for its class.

We buy quality over quantity!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Civilian use should be restricted to a smaller model like Sarkozy (6 People Capacity)
Such platform is more inline with Corporate Business Users and Delegates

This is for countries like USA and Europe but not Pakistan. Normally a private company would require to have minimum 3 directors and public to have 5-7. They are going to have private security along with them taking the numbers to well over the capacity you have stated above.

Moreover these helicopters would carry Chinese delegations so they are going to come in groups of 15-20.

Aviation industry has so much potential its not simple matter of availability of potential buyers , aviation industry bring many other aspects to any nation!!

I understand your point but at the end it all comes down to economics. It is not like the US where the Government would purchase the product and dump it in the ocean because it can not discourage the R&D.

Other countries in the world try to invest in those products that would either be absolute necessity or those that would yield financial benefits when sold.

It is still too early to say what exactly Pakistan has ordered, no doubt this platform is very expensive but it is tested in conditions of Pakistan. If indeed these are going to be purchased in large numbers then Pakistan might be considering to manufacture them locally hence building her aviation centre. There might be other platforms that could be developed trough this project or some other project. Over years it has been repeatedly in the news that TAI were interested in providing ATAK-T129 with the right of manufacture them in Pakistan then came the news that Pakistan is interested in Z-10 and China could provide TOT. So far nothing concrete has developed may be we have to wait for some time to see some positives.

Pakistan International Airlines has historically operated helicopter flights hence they could procure some to supplement the operations.
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?im..._nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwgrKBEwEQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?im..._nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwgdKAMwAw&iact=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?im..._nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwgfKAUwBQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?im..._nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwggKAYwBg&iact=mrc&uact=8

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

 

[Arsalan]

Great to see how everyone here is speculating, discussing the military value and importance, the alternatives that we could have gone for and boasting how we have selected a quality machine. There even have been talks about local manufacturing even TOT No to mentioned some extra ordinary indigenous program suggestion.

ALL THAT while ignoring the fact that non of this makes any logical sense at all. Not one person can give a logical reason why would PAA go for these in numbers ignoring numerous other better and much cheaper, not to mentioned reliable options. The ONLY logical use of these will be in roles they are being already used in, that is 6th aviation cabinet division for VIP transport, Use by PM and for emergency relief operation. All this means that there wont be too many of these coming, most probably in single numbers.

No wonder why, we are an emotional nation who put quite a lot of things before common sense. This is why we get fooled by same politician over and over again, same countries again and again, repeat the same mistakes AND never get tired of that.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Can't we refit/upgrade some for ASW missiles and give em to the navy.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

This is for countries like USA and Europe but not Pakistan. Normally a private company would require to have minimum 3 directors and public to have 5-7. They are going to have private security along with them taking the numbers to well over the capacity you have stated above.

Moreover these helicopters would carry Chinese delegations so they are going to come in groups of 15-20.


I understand your point but at the end it all comes down to economics. It is not like the US where the Government would purchase the product and dump it in the ocean because it can not discourage the R&D.

Other countries in the world try to invest in those products that would either be absolute necessity or those that would yield financial benefits when sold.

It is still too early to say what exactly Pakistan has ordered, no doubt this platform is very expensive but it is tested in conditions of Pakistan. If indeed these are going to be purchased in large numbers then Pakistan might be considering to manufacture them locally hence building her aviation centre. There might be other platforms that could be developed trough this project or some other project. Over years it has been repeatedly in the news that TAI were interested in providing ATAK-T129 with the right of manufacture them in Pakistan then came the news that Pakistan is interested in Z-10 and China could provide TOT. So far nothing concrete has developed may be we have to wait for some time to see some positives.

Pakistan International Airlines has historically operated helicopter flights hence they could procure some to supplement the operations.
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.historyofpia.com/copter_memo25.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.historyofpia.com/memorabilia25.htm&docid=8pqIfNUS3xZx4M&tbnid=m_pVTZX27fG3sM:&w=507&h=808&bih=643&biw=1024&ved=0ahUKEwiqts-E3_nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwgrKBEwEQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?imgurl=http://insider.pk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PIA-Flight-17-1966.jpg&imgrefurl=http://insider.pk/travel/list-of-airline-crash-incidents-involving-pakistan-with-photos-and-summaries/&docid=7uygMBU6o875KM&tbnid=gtDdDJlKjCZLsM:&w=448&h=251&bih=643&biw=1024&ved=0ahUKEwiqts-E3_nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwgdKAMwAw&iact=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.historyofpia.com/uk27089_old4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.historyofpia.com/olddays4.htm&docid=wsaL-8IIbJPmpM&tbnid=WTIxbab0XS2ShM:&w=507&h=376&bih=643&biw=1024&ved=0ahUKEwiqts-E3_nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwgfKAUwBQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
https://www.google.com.pk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.historyofpia.com/capt_farooq_pl31.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.historyofpia.com/people30.htm&docid=DgB7l8jkdsrKuM&tbnid=gDVzbg3ouB1HrM:&w=507&h=358&bih=643&biw=1024&ved=0ahUKEwiqts-E3_nMAhVMbBoKHWw4By8QMwggKAYwBg&iact=mrc&uact=8

Civilian copters are around 1-2 Million and should be no problem for local Businessman to buy cash

 

[Imran Khan]

my vote for navy nh-90 always man