Pakistan Army received it's first Agusta Westland 139 Helicopter.

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@Arsalan Sir,

Pakistan Army is after the engines and maintenance facility hence they have ordered these aircraft. The maximum number would be 40 including the 11 already in Pakistan. The same engine is going to be powering the Z-10's Pakistan Army is going to operate.

How these 29 aircraft are going be ordered is unclear, hence the batches that was mentioned in the press report by the company.

There are some sources suggesting that PAF and PN are also interested in procuring these.

 

[Arsalan]

Sir, according to wiki (untrustworthy) Pakistan army is going to get 15 UH-1Y Venom in 2018, if this is the case then it does indicate Pakistan Army is thinking to replace these with AW-139.

http://www.janes.com/article/53825/dod-awards-pakistan-ah-1z-contract

More over in the same list are 45 SA 330 PUMA which are used for high level operations. There were talks regarding procuring more of these aircraft through Romania or find replacements. Romania is going to be making the H215 Super Puma.

http://quwa.org/2016/04/25/romania-pakistan-eager-strengthen-defence-ties/

The Wikipedia was not an "official confirmation" of PAA going for Venom in the first place and thus there are no talks of a cancellation or replacement either.

Also the UH-1Y are for military transport. Same for PUMA. Those are military transport helicopters in PAA. AW139 we are using in government transport and relief operation as i have explained. I am sure that the number we are getting will be VERY small and will be used in VIP transport alongside disaster management.

Oh please do not get lost in the purchased numbers and ignore the future needs which I mentioned are numerous and if Pakistan's economy gets better...which insha-Allah, it will with CPEC especially... there will be a huge need of airborne support along the thousands of kilometers of the CPEC

Dear even the future needs wont call for numbers justifying TOT for this platform. If the economy is or will get better when it gets better there are other platforms that will have priority for TOT of local assembly/manufacturing. We are operating hundreds of Mi17, there are dozens of attack helicopters required. Same for light utility helicopters. Going for such an expensive platform while there are other better options wont make any sense. That is way rather basing my views on speculation on how the economy WILL get better and how we WILL need hundreds of helicopters and how we WILL select this helicopter over many other better options, i am just going by what makes more sense for now. I hope you understand my point.

PAA is facing problems in engines and spare . I think 5 or 6 months ago , PAK and Russia had signed a contract for MI 17 overhaul and engine spares facility . I don't know whether it is operational or not.

They have signed a contract 6 months ago so what makes you think there is any problem on that front sir?

There are NO such problems. We upgraded some back in 2011 as well. These are the work horse of PAA. We are operating HUNDREDS of them and have quite a few reliable suppliers for spares etc. Also have well trained staff and maintenance facilities for these.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The Wikipedia was not an "official confirmation" of PAA going for Venom in the first place and thus there are no talks of a cancellation or replacement either.

Also the UH-1Y are for military transport. Same for PUMA. Those are military transport helicopters in PAA. AW139 we are using in government transport and relief operation as i have explained. I am sure that the number we are getting will be VERY small and will be used in VIP transport alongside disaster management.

Sir,
The link that was given in regards to UH-1Y is of Janes...
Here is the extract that is being referred...
The contract, which was announced by the DoD on 26 August but awarded the day before, covers the manufacture and delivery of 15 Lot 12 UH-1Y Venom utility helicopters, 19 Lot 12 AH-1Zs,

This could be one of the reasons why PAA is interested in AW139...
http://www.leonardocompany.com/documents/63265270/69072454/body_AW139M.pdf

If it is only for Govt. transport and SAR then you are correct the numbers should not be high.

 

[Arsalan]

@Arsalan Sir,


Pakistan Army is after the engines and maintenance facility hence they have ordered these aircraft. The maximum number would be 40 including the 11 already in Pakistan. The same engine is going to be powering the Z-10's Pakistan Army is going to operate.

How these 29 aircraft are going be ordered is unclear, hence the batches that was mentioned in the press report by the company.

There are some sources suggesting that PAF and PN are also interested in procuring these.

If that was the case, wont the Chinese Z-15 would have made MUCH MUCH more sense since that is in the same category and uses the same Partt & Whitney PT6-C engine? That too is a license produced helicopter and there won’t be any problem IF we want to acquire this. it would have made much more sense to go for these as they will offer everything you mentioned as a reason for going for AW139 and have done that in lesser price.

One reason i can think that explains going for AW139, the only one, is that they numbers we are buying are very low and it made sense not to go for a NEW platform and thus we stick to what we already had operating in that particular role.

If you just think about it for a moment it is not hard to understand. IF we were looking to buy in huge numbers for military transport, wouldn’t the Mi17 make more sense as we operate loads of them and any maintenance facility upgrade, local input etc would have benefited us way more. Not to mention or compare the reliability of suppliers. If these are for PN, wouldn’t they prefer to stick to one basic platform and use its variants for patrol, SAR and AShW/ASW warfare. Such options ARE available. The only logical reason for going for these expensive platforms can be that only a limited number is being sought and that too for the roles they are already operating in, not to equip some new arm of military.

Sir,
The link that was given in regards to UH-1Y is of Janes...
Here is the extract that is being referred...
The contract, which was announced by the DoD on 26 August but awarded the day before, covers the manufacture and delivery of 15 Lot 12 UH-1Y Venom utility helicopters, 19 Lot 12 AH-1Zs,

This could be one of the reasons why PAA is interested in AW139...
http://www.leonardocompany.com/documents/63265270/69072454/body_AW139M.pdf

If it is only for Govt. transport and SAR then you are correct the numbers should not be high.

Yes there were reports of interest in Venom at the time we finalized the Vipers deal. However as this link also confirms, these were for MILITARY use. This still isn't an official confirmation, still if we take this to be all true, there isn't any report of this being canceled so that they have to be replaced by AW139. EVEN IF THAT TOO WAS TRUE (which it is not by any means) the UH-1Y, that were originally for military utility helicopter would have been replaced by more suitable options as mentioned earlier for the reasons explained in detail.

I hope i have explained everything now, there is not much more to say anymore. One can speculate all one want but i will recommend we look at the deal with some logical point of view rather then just a hyped up super charged patriotic one. That will be bring nothing but disappointment in coming days.

 

[Hell hound]

According to Allen Warns these choppers were for PAF and GOP drop purchase of S70 from US .

noooooooo we favored this over s70

Instead of that, its better to buy Boeing Chinook, Price of Italian chopper is high!

we tried in the past but you guys are no willing to sell it.

 

[HAIDER]

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has signed a contract for an undisclosed number of AgustaWestland AW139 intermediate twin engine helicopters with Italian multinational aerospace company Leonardo-Finmeccanica.

The contract was signed here in presence of the Italian Ambassador to Pakistan Stefano Pontecorvo, said a statement published on the company's website.

The AW139 choppers, which cost over $10 million each, will be used for search and rescue operations in the country.

The agreement is part of a fleet renewal programme spread over several stages, and includes a logistics support and training package.

The new fleet of helicopters, which is set to be delivered in 2017, is expected to be used for tasks such as civil protection, transport and search and rescue operations.

The latest contract marks a significant achievement for Leonardo-Finmeccanica in Pakistan, further expanding its already successful presence in the country. A total of 11 AW139s are already in service in Pakistan, with five aircraft operated for civil protection and transport tasks.

Leonardo-Finmeccanica is the ninth-largest defence contractor in the world based on applicable 2014 revenues.

 

[ss22]

congratulation for AW139 SAR

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Already shared yesterday


@Horus @WebMaster

Please merge this thread

 

[Humble Analyst]

It is a possibility since this news comes all of a sudden...idk what procedures have been followed and how details are public.But it could be a part of larger deal where Pakistan is buying some other equipment too. Maybe some western origin subs etc. But I wish our planners think more on the lines of indigenisation and ToT.

When it comes to selling to Pakistan, the choices are limited especially if you consider the quality of the equipment being purchased

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Can't we refit/upgrade some for ASW missiles and give em to the navy.

 

[war&peace]

When it comes to selling to Pakistan, the choices are limited especially if you consider the quality of the equipment being purchased

This helicopter is not low quality by any means for its class. The main limitation is the budget/economy, many western countries including USA are ready to sell their products if you can buy with hard cash. That's the only limiting factor...and then alternative markets are always there to get whatever you want if your coffers are full.

 

[Ahmad Bhutta]

With a population of 220 million why can't we build our own choppers :/ whatever we buy from others is a burden on economy as we would need their assistance always for services and spare parts in future

 

[Jhon Smith]

With a population of 220 million why can't we build our own choppers :/ whatever we buy from others is a burden on economy as we would need their assistance always for services and spare parts in future

Its just simple waste of many 100 million of Dollar by one 3rd of that Money Govt can install Helicopter plant in Pakistan. IF that money could be used for project of helicopters inside Pak any aeronautical department at LUMS or UET lahore with 500 Engineers start to produce helicopters within 3 years of time.

Although the helicopter has been described as an "ungainly, aerodynamic maverick", the modem helicopter is indeed a machine of considerable engineering sophistication and refinement (see figure below) and plays a unique role in modern aviation provided by no other aircraft. It is truly a unique form of aircraft and a mastery of modem aeronautical engineering.

The overall aerodynamic complexity of the helicopter in forward flight can be appreciated from the fig. below. The flow field in which the rotor operates is considerably more complex than that of a fixed-wing aircraft, mainly because of the individual wakes trailed from each blade.

I want this title to be available as an eBook

Principles of Helicopter Aerodynamics
with CD Extra
2nd Edition

• AUTHOR: Gordon J. Leishman, University of Maryland, College Park

• DATE PUBLISHED: July 2006
• AVAILABILITY: In stock
• 

Table of Contents
1. Introduction
2. Notation
3. Hover
4. Vertical flight
5. Forward flight wake
6. Forward flight
7. Performance
8. Design
9. Wings and wakes
10. Unsteady aerodynamics
11. Actuator disk
12. Stall
13. Computational aerodynamics
14. Noise
15. Mathematics of rotating systems
16. Blade motion
17. Beam theory
18. Dynamics
19. Flap motion
20. Stability
21. Flight dynamics
22. Comprehensive analysis.

http://www.cambridge.org/tn/academi...ormat=HB&isbn=9781107028074#contentsTabAnchor

 

[Jhon Smith]

COLLABORATING LAB

Much of our research is conducted in close collaboration with Kenny Breuer, professor of Engineering at Brown.

Breuer Lab members:

• 
  
  email
  KENNY BREUER
  PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR
  Kenny Breuer is professor of Engineering at Brown, and interested in all things fluid mechanics including animal flight, bacterial motility, fluid-structure interactions, micron-scale fluid mechanics and energy harvesting from fluid flows.
  Breuer Lab Website
  
  
• 
  
  email
  HAMID VEJDANI
  POSTDOCTORAL RESEARCH ASSOCIATE
  Hamid is interested in understanding the dynamics of bat flight from the perspective of robotics. He earned his PhD in Robotics & Mechanical Engineering from Oregon State University. In his research he analyzes the data from bats in the framework of mathematical models to figure out how bats (as dynamical systems) achieve the magnificent maneuverability and agility that are unique to them.
  
  
• 
  
  email
  COSIMA SCHUNK
  GRADUATE STUDENT
  With a background in biomimetics, Cosima is very interested in bats as a potential source of inspiration for micro air vehicles. She is currently investigating force generation and efficiency with a mechanical bat model. To better understand performance, she is also investigating bat flight with PIV wake measurements and kinematic studies.
  
  
• 

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/EEB/EML/

 

[Saquib]

Now go for AW101 Helicopters and TOT for future PAKs helio needs!