Pakistan Army received it's first Agusta Westland 139 Helicopter.

[Indus Falcon]

my vote for navy nh-90 always man

Not a mature product at the moment. Too many teething issues. Two to three years down the road, maybe.

AW149M is a much better option right now.

 

[Imran Khan]

Not a mature product at the moment. Too many teething issues. Two to three years down the road, maybe.

AW149M is a much better option right now.

sir so many nations operating it i don't think its armature bird . yeah its we whom always stay a generation behind the world

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Great to see how everyone here is speculating, discussing the military value and importance, the alternatives that we could have gone for and boasting how we have selected a quality machine. There even have been talks about local manufacturing even TOT No to mentioned some extra ordinary indigenous program suggestion.

ALL THAT while ignoring the fact that non of this makes any logical sense at all. Not one person can give a logical reason why would PAA go for these in numbers ignoring numerous other better and much cheaper, not to mentioned reliable options. The ONLY logical use of these will be in roles they are being already used in, that is 6th aviation cabinet division for VIP transport, Use by PM and for emergency relief operation. All this means that there wont be too many of these coming, most probably in single numbers.

No wonder why, we are an emotional nation who put quite a lot of things before common sense. This is why we get fooled by same politician over and over again, same countries again and again, repeat the same mistakes AND never get tired of that.

Logical Reason ? for 16 Soldier carrying Helicopter vs a 2 seater copter

Navy:

• Accident at sea requiring rescue considering that storms do come between the waters of Oman and Pakistan
• Special Ops mission for Soldiers to take over terrorist ship at night
  
• Transport Navy Troops around the needed bases for beefing up security
  
• Transporting some goods to Ships at sea
  
• Transporting Senior Personnel to ships
  
• Helicopters being available during flood times in Pakistan in case of need

Military:

• Carry fresh set of troops to mountain regions
  
• Move troops quickly to strategic key areas on hill sides
• Ambush Terrorist who are on foot by a sudden attack carrying 40 soldiers in 2-3 Copters
  
• Emergency operations on villages where Terrorist may be hiding
  
• Flood relief efforts
• Ambulance for carrying victims to hospitals
  
• Transporting a party of soldiers behind enemy lines
• Gunship role / Assault
• Ability to board pirate ships and confiscate /capture at sea

Air force/City:

• Military base/City security (internal gunship)

Other services :

• Carrying water to needed high to get areas or food
• Capturing buildings from roof landing or drop of solider units

• 30 Agusta copters can carry 840 Troops while Aérospatiale Alouette III can only transport 60 soldiers / sailiors

 

[Bratva]

Great to see how everyone here is speculating, discussing the military value and importance, the alternatives that we could have gone for and boasting how we have selected a quality machine. There even have been talks about local manufacturing even TOT No to mentioned some extra ordinary indigenous program suggestion.

ALL THAT while ignoring the fact that non of this makes any logical sense at all. Not one person can give a logical reason why would PAA go for these in numbers ignoring numerous other better and much cheaper, not to mentioned reliable options. The ONLY logical use of these will be in roles they are being already used in, that is 6th aviation cabinet division for VIP transport, Use by PM and for emergency relief operation. All this means that there wont be too many of these coming, most probably in single numbers.

No wonder why, we are an emotional nation who put quite a lot of things before common sense. This is why we get fooled by same politician over and over again, same countries again and again, repeat the same mistakes AND never get tired of that.

Many Generals are going to retire this or next year. They want to fill up their reitrement fund somehow as well. Looking at how Indian deal was riddled with kickback controversies, no wonder other alternatives were ignored.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

 

[Arsalan]

Logical Reason ? for 16 Soldier carrying Helicopter vs a 2 seater copter

Navy:

• Accident at sea requiring rescue considering that storms do come between the waters of Oman and Pakistan
• Special Ops mission for Soldiers to take over terrorist ship at night
  
• Transport Navy Troops around the needed bases for beefing up security
  
• Transporting some goods to Ships at sea
  
• Transporting Senior Personnel to ships
  
• Helicopters being available during flood times in Pakistan in case of need

Military:

• Carry fresh set of troops to mountain regions
  
• Move troops quickly to strategic key areas on hill sides
• Ambush Terrorist who are on foot by a sudden attack carrying 40 soldiers in 2-3 Copters
  
• Emergency operations on villages where Terrorist may be hiding
  
• Flood relief efforts
• Ambulance for carrying victims to hospitals
  
• Transporting a party of soldiers behind enemy lines
• Gunship role / Assault
• Ability to board pirate ships and confiscate /capture at sea

Air force/City:

• Military base/City security (internal gunship)

Other services :

• Carrying water to needed high to get areas or food
• Capturing buildings from roof landing or drop of solider units

• 30 Agusta copters can carry 840 Troops while Aérospatiale Alouette III can only transport 60 soldiers / sailiors

Great!
These are pretty good reasons for buying a chopper. Agreed.
The point is, are they good reasons to select AW139?

You know this as well i do sir, the financial issues and reliability of supplier have ALWAYS been a problem. Now keep that in mind and look around you to see if you see any many other better options that i can see? I am sure you will.

 

[HAIDER]

This will eventually end up in the hands of Pakistan army Because, its fall under exact specification of Siachin operational height. Remember its 20,000 feet ceiling. This helicopter is built for high altitude rescue mission.
Plus , probably these helicopter will be maintained by TAI .Turkey must be deal broker.


https://www.tai.com.tr/en/project/aw139-program
@cabatli_53

 

[guest11]

This will eventually end up in the hands of Pakistan army Because, its fall under exact specification of Siachin operational height. Remember its 20,000 feet ceiling. This helicopter is built for high altitude rescue mission.

Don't think that is with meaningful payload but the max altitude achieved in tests. I could be wrong though.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Judging by the void in Pakistan Military

a) SAM (High Altitude)
b) 50 - 250 units Transport helicopters for Troops for fast anti terror ops / rescue mission
d) Twin Engine Jets
e) 4-5 Destroyers for Navy
f) Helicopter gunships (Heavy)
g) Light machine gun carrying Helicopters
h) Heavy Transport planes

At least I see some progress being made


Any time we can transport 800-900 Troops behind enemy escape route , we can surround escaping Terrorist from both side so great to have transport units

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Great!
These are pretty good reasons for buying a chopper. Agreed.
The point is, are they good reasons to select AW139?

You know this as well i do sir, the financial issues and reliability of supplier have ALWAYS been a problem. Now keep that in mind and look around you to see if you see any many other better options that i can see? I am sure you will.

Sir, Two questions come in mind,

1) Were the alternates offered to Pakistan?

2) PAA has been operating this aircraft for some time don't you think they would have evaluated it by now?

 

[Penguin]

IIRC Pakistan government ordered choppers, not necessarily military

 

[ZAC1]

AW139M Armament
Internal weapons (general purpose machine gun)
Sniper rifle
External weapons (Heavy machine gun pods & 2.75” rocket pods)
Weapon management system with head up display
Forward firing rockets and machine guns
Pintle mounted machine gun
Air-to-Surface Missile system

Hope to see M-variant

 

[cabatli_53]

This will eventually end up in the hands of Pakistan army Because, its fall under exact specification of Siachin operational height. Remember its 20,000 feet ceiling. This helicopter is built for high altitude rescue mission.
Plus , probably these helicopter will be maintained by TAI .Turkey must be deal broker.


https://www.tai.com.tr/en/project/aw139-program
@cabatli_53

TAI produces the main fuselage and transfer them to Italy for final assembly for costumers. Turkey doesn't have any maintenance agreement with Italy regarding AW-139 helicopters.

TAI transferred the production ability of AW-139 fuselage for domestic 5 tonnes utility helicopter project.

 

[Quwa]

IIRC Pakistan government ordered choppers, not necessarily military

I thought it was a civil use order as well, but Alan Warnes said they were bought in lieu of S-70s for the PAF. The implication is that it is the PAF that is actually acquiring the AW-139s.

A secondary point, we ought to consider standardization to some extent. The AW-139 seems like a decent and versatile platform, I hope the armed forces try aligning their respective utility helicopter needs around it. They can collectively (alongside the paramilitary, law enforcement agencies, public service, etc) build up a healthy sized fleet, and then push for local MRO as well as spare parts manufacturing.

 

[khanasifm]

Paf fleet of 20 odd SAR helicopters being replaced ?