Pakistan-A real market for the Mirage 2000-9 ?

[batmannow]

New platform, AL-31 not allowed for exports alot of time require to train pilots and ground crew, Mirages induction and training would take less time, Mirages crew would have no problem with the platform relatively.

Very professional point, which can change whole picture in a battle field, in karGill , Indian, s brought 2 things , BOFORS & MIRAGES both proved , their worth?
I, am a witness of the destruction both machines , put on us, with our F-16 in the docks we were , sent to he'll by those monster s?
But, as I think for now , if we had these super mirages buzzing over us , on the Indian side I won't be able to retire too, soon & would have made a YADGAR-Shuda at tiger hills?
If we had these, mirages then?
A lot of youngsters here, are trying their best to put Chinese fighters into our air fighting ranks, that's good but the time, it is going to happen it to long?
Let's say, 40 super mirages would, make PAF a, all weather, all time flying airforce, which it wasn't in kargill, despite our dam falcons!

 

[MastanKhan]

New platform, AL-31 not allowed for exports alot of time require to train pilots and ground crew, Mirages induction and training would take less time, Mirages crew would have no problem with the platform relatively.

Lufwaffe,

Kids don't understand that for the J10B to be procured----you have to start from zero----you have to integrate that aircraft into your air force and come up with the 'playbook'---the operational capabilities of that aircraft---paf will have to go through all the headaches and pains---another to10 years time period---just like the JF17---.

OTOH---the m2k9 already has its set of standard operational capabilities known. Members need to understand that.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Lufwaffe,

Kids don't understand that for the J10B to be procured----you have to start from zero----you have to integrate that aircraft into your air force and come up with the 'playbook'---the operational capabilities of that aircraft---paf will have to go through all the headaches and pains---another to10 years time period---just like the JF17---.

OTOH---the m2k9 already has its set of standard operational capabilities known. Members need to understand that.

Not to say that I advocate buying J-10B as such, but it is important to note that:

1. Indeed J-10B would require many years to induct and make completely operational with all required weaponry and tactical play book.

2. However, since it would be an unknown for our adversaries, its value for us will be more than M2K.

3. Whatever tactics etc... PLAAF has developed can be used to develop our playbook.

4. If PAF does intend to induct J-10B, we can start developing infrastructure, training Manpower before any of the birds actually arrive.

In any case I find the whole M2K purchase prospects discussion as pretty useless until and unless there actually is any indication that it might be being considered at all. I highly doubt it.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

why j10 B had been scraped ? wouldn't it for the same reason Mirage will be just a pipe dream ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Not to say that I advocate buying J-10B as such, but it is important to note that:

1. Indeed J-10B would require many years to induct and make completely operational with all required weaponry and tactical play book.

2. However, since it would be an unknown for our adversaries, its value for us will be more than M2K.

3. Whatever tactics etc... PLAAF has developed can be used to develop our playbook.

4. If PAF does intend to induct J-10B, we can start developing infrastructure, training Manpower before any of the birds actually arrive.

In any case I find the whole M2K purchase prospects discussion as pretty useless until and unless there actually is any indication that it might be being considered at all. I highly doubt it.

Hi,

I very much doubt the capabilities of the Chinese airforce pilots as compared to PAF. The J10B does not have the weaponery and electronics behind it to make the difference.

Our Blk52' and Mlu's aircraft are far head of the J10----. The m2k9 is at par and its capabilities superior in certain arena to those of the F16's and others similar.

But then it is all about the timing----. Any future new aircraft in paf's arsenal must have aesa----.

Dr Muzzamil----money aside---the French will sell us the rafale or whatever if their deal falls thru----.

The m2k9 rumor is a good diversion for Pakistan---strategically---it may happen or it may not happen----.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Lufwaffe,

Kids don't understand that for the J10B to be procured----you have to start from zero----you have to integrate that aircraft into your air force and come up with the 'playbook'---the operational capabilities of that aircraft---paf will have to go through all the headaches and pains---another to10 years time period---just like the JF17---.

OTOH---the m2k9 already has its set of standard operational capabilities known. Members need to understand that.

its going to cost atleast 3 billion USD to buy even half those mirages whos going to pay for it? you? pakistan economy wise is in no position to spend that money. The mirage 2000-9 is like an expensive stop gap, F-16s can be brought with less then half the money and upgraded with strike role theres no need for M2009

 

[Abingdonboy]

Dr Muzzamil----money aside---the French will sell us the rafale or whatever if their deal falls thru----.

"money aside" is a rather huge omission. Money is probably the ONLY thing holding back the PAF from acquiring such modern equipment and for good reason- there is simply no money in the Pakistani exchequer to pay for such acquisitions and won't be for a good while even if Pakistan is somehow able to pull off some sort of economic miracle - not that this appears to be on the horizon in anyway. A comment like "money aside" is just allowing yourself to live in some sort of fantasy world- be practical and discuss what you can do with what you have.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Very professional point, which can change whole picture in a battle field, in karGill , Indian, s brought 2 things , BOFORS & MIRAGES both proved , their worth?
I, am a witness of the destruction both machines , put on us, with our F-16 in the docks we were , sent to he'll by those monster s?
But, as I think for now , if we had these super mirages buzzing over us , on the Indian side I won't be able to retire too, soon & would have made a YADGAR-Shuda at tiger hills?
If we had these, mirages then?
A lot of youngsters here, are trying their best to put Chinese fighters into our air fighting ranks, that's good but the time, it is going to happen it to long?
Let's say, 40 super mirages would, make PAF a, all weather, all time flying airforce, which it wasn't in kargill, despite our dam falcons!

you fought in kargil?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

No J10b ....so no mirage 2000

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,
Dr Muzzamil----money aside---the French will sell us the rafale or whatever if their deal falls thru----.

"money aside" is a rather huge omission. Money is probably the ONLY thing holding back the PAF from acquiring such modern equipment and for good reason- there is simply no money in the Pakistani exchequer to pay for such acquisitions and won't be for a good while even if Pakistan is somehow able to pull off some sort of economic miracle - not that this appears to be on the horizon in anyway. A comment like "money aside" is just allowing yourself to live in some sort of fantasy world- be practical and discuss what you can do with what you have.

Sir,

If that make you happy---I am fine with your comments. The doctor asked a simple question----I answered a simple question. Can we at least have some expectations on our expense.

 

[MilSpec]

OTOH---the m2k9 already has its set of standard operational capabilities known. Members need to understand that.

further explanation would help.... PLAAF doesn't know standard operational capabilities of the platform they have been operating for close to decade now?

 

[Luftwaffe]

further explanation would help.... PLAAF doesn't know standard operational capabilities of the platform they have been operating for close to decade now?

PLAAF? is it going to be USB Transfer or brain to brain Transfer? The Platform being talked about is J-10B. It is not like you buy F-16s for the first time from US and than walah you have all the information in your head because US told you by the book and mouth.

 

[Chak Bamu]

PLAAF? is it going to be USB Transfer or brain to brain Transfer? The Platform being talked about is J-10B. It is not like you buy F-16s for the first time from US and than walah you have all the information in your head because US told you by the book and mouth.

Sandy's observation is spot-on. I have said the same thing, but a little differently. Mastan sb has responded, but I do not think his response lays to rest concerns that both me and Sandy have expressed. It is a matter of opinion whether or not PLAAF would or would not be fully exploiting J-10B's capability envelope.

I hope this thread does not just go on like this with comments about comments about other people's comments. IMV there is hardly anything actual to discuss.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Sandy's observation is spot-on. I have said the same thing, but a little differently. Mastan sb has responded, but I do not think his response lays to rest concerns that both me and Sandy have expressed. It is a matter of opinion whether or not PLAAF would or would not be fully exploiting J-10B's capability envelope.

I hope this thread does not just go on like this with comments about comments about other people's comments. IMV there is hardly anything actual to discuss.

J-10B is not a 10 year old platform that is J-10A which is alot different there is a generation gap between both. The Capabilities of the Platform might be understood by PLAAF but for PAF they'll have to start from the scratch to learn ins-out of the Aircraft even for J-10A. Don't have to remind we are engaged with one new platform already and we read the interview that there is going to be no other platform PAF is seriously busy with JF-17 development, the Answer is already there no J-10A/B. The crew of PAF Mirages would find it relatively easy to switch to Mirage 2000/-9 experience pilots would be put to test, the same doctrine and tactics would be applied learned with Mirage ROSEs.

 

[MilSpec]

The crew of PAF Mirages would find it relatively easy to switch to Mirage 2000/-9 experience pilots would be put to test, the same doctrine and tactics would be applied learned with Mirage ROSEs.

how? Mirage 3 and mirage 2K share nothing in common. M2K is FBW unstable delta and Mirage 3 is a stable conventional delta, flight envelope is completely different, stick response is different, aircraft performance is completely different. Mirage Rose crews will have similar transitional learning curve if you replace the Mirage 3's with a Jf17 or J10, or f16 or mirage 2K. The difference is as stark as getting a completely different aircraft despite the commonality in 6 alphabets