Pakistan-A real market for the Mirage 2000-9 ?

[sathya]

Egypt would unlikely sell its M2Ks. There is strong speculation that Egypt is going for the UAE's M2K-9s and it would certainly make sense given that Egypt is most likely going to upgrade its M2Ks in France and already has the infrastructure to accommodate the aircraft along with a growing military relationship with France after a lapse during the Mubarak era.

Link for the plan to upgrade EAF M2Ks: Mirage : Thales sur la piste d'un mégacontrat en Egypte

Makes sense, Selling mirages to Pakistan or even India might undermine the rafale sale..

 

[The SC]

Does that mean that if the Indians go on & acquire the Rafaels we'd know their ins & outs through our secondments to the UAEAF or the Qatari Airforce ?

India has a defense pact with Qatar.
India’s defence pact with Qatar | Pragmatic Euphony
But not with the UAE.

 

[The SC]

J-20 will never be available to us nor can we handle a plane close to $100 million a pop. Probably J-3X and that too is a good decade away.

Why not? 1 squadron will be enough to start with, adding four squadrons of J-3X, that is 2 billion$ to be accounted for their procurements in the next decade.

 

[Informant]

Why not? 1 squadron will be enough to start with, adding four squadrons of J-3X, that is 2 billion$ to be accounted for their procurements in the next decade.

Not that easy, J-2X will not be offered to us until it fills the Chinese requirements. That will take a solid 10 years since the date of production. So that is more or less 15 years away. J-3X is for us and we can and will acquire it the moment it is available to us.

 

[The SC]

Not that easy, J-2X will not be offered to us until it fills the Chinese requirements. That will take a solid 10 years since the date of production. So that is more or less 15 years away. J-3X is for us and we can and will acquire it the moment it is available to us.

Waiting for a good thing is never a loss of time.

 

[Donatello]

To amend that a little. The F-16s are our general purpose pounders. They are supposed to do the body punching. They are excellent bomb-trucks as well, the only issue is that we dont have enough of the general pounders(hence the need to make the JF a general pounder as well).

So if the list is to be revised. Lets put a list of missions that are flown and then assign them to the aircraft
View attachment 40336
View attachment 40335
View attachment 40334


Now.

F-7PG = INTERCEPT, DCA(Defensive Counter Air, for a specific facility.. say Kahuta for e.g.) , Ambush-CAP, On call CAS.

The JF-17 = INTERCEPT, DCA, HAVCAP, BARCAP,Ambush-CAP, SEAD Strike, SEAD Escort(currently assigned to ROSE Mirages with MAR-1) , Pre-Planned CAS, On Call CAS, Anti-Ship. RESCAP

F-16 ADF= INTERCEPT, DCA, Ambush-CAP,HAVCAP, BARCAP, ESCORT, TARCAP, On-call CAS, Pre-Planned CAS,FAC, Interdiction,RESCAP

F-16 MLU/52 = SWEEP, INTERCEPT, DCA, Ambush-CAP,HAVCAP, BARCAP, ESCORT, TARCAP, On-call CAS, Pre-Planned CAS,FAC, Interdiction, Strike, Deep-Strike, DEAD, SEAD.

Now, while I certainly doubt the Mirage-2000-9 is going to come to Pakistan and see the Industry expert thing as a ploy by the French to get the MMRCA sped up and secure further Indian interest in these extra airframe for their M2k force. For the sake of this thread Ill add their possible roles.

M2K-9 = SWEEP, INTERCEPT, DCA, Ambush-CAP,HAVCAP, BARCAP, ESCORT, TARCAP, On-call CAS, Pre-Planned CAS, Interdiction, Strike, Deep-Strike, DEAD, SEAD. Anti-Ship

The M2K-9s are capable of performing almost all missions that the block-52 can but their effectiveness at each varies accordingly.

What most people fail to see is that these aircraft are not just the flying airframes; they encompass their spares and support along with weapons. Weapons that include the MBDA Mica system and others that have direct French involvement whose arms can be twisted by India over the MMRCA deal. Hence, these aircraft will be MORE of a hassle for us(in the oft chance that we do procure them) than the F-16s would be.

Good analysis. Learned a thing or two today, given the hazy weather on PDF lately.

However, if Pakistan gets even two squadrons of M2ks, that's like two squadrons of F-16s. So unless PAF can get more F-16s, m2k seems the alternative (in the roles as you mentioned m2k being similar to F-16s, and the fact that F-16s can be relieved some of their pounding duty, which now m2k can do). And as much as the Indians can arm twist the French, m2k going to PAF will allow the French to arm twist the Indians. For them it's a win-win, not so much for India or Pakistan. What can India do at most? Reduce the number of Rafales in order or cancel outright? They need a medium weight plane anyway, the Migs are long past their useful lives (give the fact that they have superpower dreams), and what's the alternative? Typhoon....but then you go another 3-4 years in negotiations and deals and etc. And this time the Eurofighter ain't gonna be that friendly, their aircraft is already flying in more airforces than one.

stranger things have happened however the IAF is desperate to conclude the Rafale deal. due to cost increases, it could reduce its order. so at this time they may not be interested in the M2K as it is only available when the UAE F-16s are delivered. if my memory serves me right LM has the Omani and Iraqi order on its assembly line before it starts the UAE order.
as far as PAF goes, at best it would go for 1 SQN worth of M2K's to augment its 'night strike' capability. so at USD20m per we are looking at $400m and with the army in gregarious mood (funding the Jordanian F-16s) this is a doable. training and infrastructure will not be an issue as many PAF pilots serve on deputation with the UAE.

Sir, Army knows that F-16s and M2ks can do from air what their divisions cannot on the ground.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

France is not in quandry---france is not in a weak position----it is otherwise---it is india that would have problem---. French have already felt the financial squeeze----. The thing is that india has nowhere to go but for the rafale----if they cancel rafale---it gives time for paf to catch up and close the gp.

If france plays its hand right----india will be in an extremely tight squeeze. I think that the french have india where they want it to be.

 

[MilSpec]

Hi,

France is not in quandry---france is not in a weak position----it is otherwise---it is india that would have problem---. French have already felt the financial squeeze----. The thing is that india has nowhere to go but for the rafale----if they cancel rafale---it gives time for paf to catch up and close the gp.

If france plays its hand right----india will be in an extremely tight squeeze. I think that the french have india where they want it to be.

There is always option to increase MKi which I suspect will happen anyways, then there is Mig35 AESA OVT version, or even Mig29K Aesa for worst case scenario. And if rafale collapses, EFT is waiting in the wings.

 

[kaykay]

Hi,

France is not in quandry---france is not in a weak position----it is otherwise---it is india that would have problem---. French have already felt the financial squeeze----. The thing is that india has nowhere to go but for the rafale----if they cancel rafale---it gives time for paf to catch up and close the gp.

If france plays its hand right----india will be in an extremely tight squeeze. I think that the french have india where they want it to be.

well typhoon team is waiting for such news even after losing to rafale also for stop gap measures India can go for more mkis and we are listening a lot about it recently.

 

[Luftwaffe]

well typhoon team is waiting for such news even after losing to rafale also for stop gap measures India can go for more mkis and we are listening a lot about it recently.

MKI is stop gap product?, I thought MRCA was a long term procurement as A replacement?

Someone mentioned U.A.E Mirages Frace likes making money they won't just stick to one customer if they can bag money from Pakistan they will...indian MRCA was at its peak when France refused to provide Avionics/Radar and we say it was Natural decision but now things are different things are more clearer French lose nothing they make money on Rafale and Mirage upgrade and could make more money on NOC/NOD to sell Mirages to Pakistan by U.A.E.

 

[Kompromat]

Can we quit talking about MMRCA?

 

[kaykay]

MKI is stop gap product?, I thought MRCA was a long term procurement as A replacement?

Someone mentioned U.A.E Mirages Frace likes making money they won't just stick to one customer if they can bag money from Pakistan they will...indian MRCA was at its peak when France refused to provide Avionics/Radar and we say it was Natural decision but now things are different things are more clearer French lose nothing they make money on Rafale and Mirage upgrade and could make more money on NOC/NOD to sell Mirages to Pakistan by U.A.E.

stopgap in sense that negotiation with another vendor will take some time so iaf can induct more mkis so that it can manage atleast 34-35 sqds till typhoon or selected fighter comes. also regarding mirage from uae for pak, last time India tried to negotiate for qatari mirage and they asked 60+ million dollar a piece so good luck with that.

 

[Luftwaffe]

regarding mirage from uae for pak, last time India tried to negotiate for qatari mirage and they asked 60+ million dollar a piece so good luck with that.

Industrial sources to Alan Warne could turn out to be false the point is relation of U.A.E AF and PAF we do not know what price could be set if ever they come to the table to negotiate but can't go beyond $25m per unit. IAF has money why did it not purchase 12 units for 60m each.

 

[kaykay]

Industrial sources to Alan Warne could turn out to be false the point is relation of U.A.E AF and PAF we do not know what price could be set if ever they come to the table to negotiate but can't go beyond $25m per unit. IAF has money why did it not purchase 12 units for 60m each.

well if paf can get those m2k5 in 25 million a piece then nothing can be better than that. well those second hand mirages wasn't worth 60 million when we could get mkis for less than that.

 

[Luftwaffe]

well if paf can get those m2k5 in 25 million a piece then nothing can be better than that. well those second hand mirages wasn't worth 60 million when we could get mkis for less than that.

I know and read it that time, IAF offered 375m @31m which Qataris considered insult they wanted 750m @62ish.