PAF Vs IAF Command and Control Systems

[India Rising]

PAF has all of its bases connected by fiber optic link, it has nodes that allow it to remain networked even if one node is taken out.

...even Bharti BTSOL (airtel subsidiary )have these.. all around india with backup..what the big fuss...?

 

[justanobserver]

...even Bharti BTSOL (airtel subsidiary )have these.. all around india with backup..what the big fuss...?

My engineering college (and its branches) have it too

 

[Ammyy]

...even Bharti BTSOL (airtel subsidiary )have these.. all around india with backup..what the big fuss...?

My engineering college (and its branches) have it too

I am also surprised when Rafi post that ....... Yar even BSNL using fiber cables in all their MSCs

In 2005 during my vocational training learn about Fiber cable in BSNL MSC

 

[mehboobkz]

A.K. ANTONY

Hon. Minister of Defence India:
“C4I2 is an important component for achieving Information Superiority - an absolute essential war winning factor. Our nation maintains a significant advantage in the development of information based technologies. This must be optimised for our defence requirements.

 

[SQ8]

ok...what is the average number of tests a pakistani ballistic missile goes through before it gets inducted??
how many pakistani missiles failed a launch during it's testing?
what are the key pakistani components in jf-17?
how does a country which has never ever produced so much as a satellite launch vehicle or a re-entry probe or a super-computer dream of possessing a MIRV?
what is the Pakistani input in AL-khalid?
answer these questions...if you have similar questions about our defense porducts...both failed and otherwise...by all means ask..and i will give you a figure more precise and exact than yours....
whatever you cant answer is open for speculation...

You are forcing this to become off-topic...
what happens when a country tests nukes?dont you remember our case?
Israel needs whatever little foreign sympathy it can get...and isn't Israel sufficiently public about it's programs?is there any country barring Turkey that can hold Israel in the mid-east and get a decisive victory with at least all the known programs Israel already has or has embarked on...?

for a country caught in a soup like Pakistan it is...as you always potray...when you can adopt beliefs such as that your men are martially superior and natural fighters...and that each of our soldier is worth 10 of ours...I think you do...

You need to be fairly confident to come out saying that you have something better...but more than confident you need to put forth facts and figures....for no body buys your argument if you cant.

Pakistan's case is like Britains when it kept on bluffing about having a nuclear bomb and using it against Germany when it was being bombarded with V2 rockets...(not denying that you have nukes)
you are twisting words...announcing that you are developing something is stupid unless you dont have it sitting pretty in your lap...
once you have it...you surely need to brandish it to prevent being overrun in a fatal one on one with a bigger enemy...
dont we all remember how mushrraf talked about using the nuke option during the stand-off after the parliamentary attacks??
He being the president and the COAS did not put too much hope in the conventional nature of warfare did he??
that did bring in bad vibes from all over the world...as we had an explicit no first-use policy...
so the bewildering thing is...why does pakistan choose to keep it's better and superior tech only for the chatter and does not even produce the filmsiest of backing required for it to hold ground?while it openly seeks to use the nuke option in spite ofhaving what not?
why does it also not prove that it has a better communications and C4I system in place to deter the enemy?Every body would understand if it is all indigenous...hell you'd get points for that...cus so far there is not one thing that comes to my mind that you guys have produce which does not exist anywhere else...forget the super-duper neutron bomb...

why do you scale-up to being in the same state as America??
the case of Pakistan is a lot different...do I need to tell you that?
pitted against a bigger enemy...you need non-measurable edges like in efficiency...measurable ones in quality of systems....
an sane person...military or otherwise would agree that it is the prevention of war that is more important than the actual fighting itself...a thousand things can go wrong...logistic failure has defeated more armies than any other form of opposition...that is the exact reason china tests A-SAT weapons...the exact reason...USA maintains a well-known anti-missile shield program...and embarked on the star wars mother of all projects...provides yeilds of all it's conventional bombs...the exact reason why the Germans...the brits...the ruskies do not shy away from their good weapon systems...
do you believe when the Iranians say that they are in advanced stages of getting themselves a 5th gen fighter???

alright...so now you bring in espionage....dude this is not going anywhere...I have liked your posts...I even posted that you should be made a moderator or something...but this is gonig in circles...
Is there nothing to prove that the Pakistani C4I system is better than Indias?

I wonder if I am dragging this into a off topic debate or you are..
Martial races.. where the **** did I ever mention Martial races.. or race superiority or martians..

Now..
for the answeres to your first paragraph..
its Two tests.. however..not neccecarily of the same missile..but the same engine configuration.
Ignore the Ghauri.. its the North Korean Nodong..
the Shaheen was developed using a baseline engine from the Hatf series..Chinese input from M-11 missiles.
the guidance system on it.. was designed in house by NDC.
The shaheen engine was tested back in 99 in flight.. along with the first guidance system..
Nobody expected the thing to blow the target flag out of the circle.. let alone even make it to the circle.. it did.
Next test verified a newer guidance system.. refined engine..and slight changes in stage size...
At the same time.. low rate production started...
But since I heard this by word of mouth...you wont believe it...okay.np

There is Pakistani input in the design process of the JF-17..with aerodynamics.. electronics.. systems engineers..along with pilots.
half of the Jf-17 design team in 2003 was sourced from Pakistan.
But since they arent a "component" in the strict sense of the word..
You dont have to believe me.. okay..np

could you please tell me..how super computers are absolutely necessary in MIRV design.. is it impossible without it?
In any case.. Suparco has on occasion outsourced to the Chinese academy for time on their machine...is that worth publishing....on the internet?Isnt it possible for NDC to do the same? no.. so you dont have to believe me..okay.np

the solid state auto loader system for the Al-khalid..was designed by my company.. The systems integration..was done in house and by a private company outsourced to by HIT and a University group.
But that's ok.. Its not on the internet.. you dont have to believe me.

We cant do anything on our own.. since its not on the internet.. scanned or in article form otherwise.. you dont have to believe a thing.

Now..
How do you brandish a C4I system?
Now.. lets assume.. that the pretty scans I just saw are of an operational system.. in that case.. you just gave your enemies the idea that you are pulling ahead.. they panic..they push more into their programs.. they put more money into competing with you here.. or in another weapon system..
You find out.. you feel set back.. you spend more.. the other guy.. who cannot keep up on this linear approach.. decided to upgrade his non-conventional arsenal.. do you see the pattern here..its called an arms race..we have been at it... for over...lets see.. 65 years or so??
Would you rather slow it down.. or speed it up..
Is it better to be satisfied with being better by the knowledge of having extremely high tech systems.. or by knowing all of that.. and knowing that the other guy is now more insecure because of it and is making more nukes??

To answer your second last paragraph..
Have you ever heard of Operational security?.. its not only nations that practice it.. Apple..Microsoft.. all do it in some form.
Do you know everything there is to know about the F-22.. as you say the Americans publish everything?
Do I know everything about the Akash?.. down to the underlying scan rate?.. weaknesses?
recently a very decorated USAF F-22 pilot.. was forced to retire.. after he mistakenly posted some details on the internet which..although were not classified as such.. deemed to endanger US OPSEC.. there was even a presentation which I posted earlier made just for this incident by the USAF..even though.. there is very little chance he was talking to any internet spies.or that most would not have been able to get that data..say in five years or so.

Now.. am I even comparable to that person's professional exp and reputation.. far from it..
But if I know something.. whether its within my organization.. or by indirect reference.. should I blurt it all out..maybe.. or should I exercise caution. Just in case.
And that goes not just for me..
there are other members who are privy to info.. some say it openly...its their judgment call.. they know better. If I feel comfortable sharing a certain detail.. Ill do it...if not..you are more than welcome to be a skeptic.
There are other more knowledgeable members in their respective fields who post liberally..and with considerable detail.. but Whatever they post.. is everything that is freely available as collectible information on the internet. If tomorrow I find that okay.. look...there is that new purchase I heard about talking to my colleague.. on that website.. hey..lets talk about it.
But if I am having a chat with a senior in my organization..and he mentions something but says please do not mention it to anybody yet..I feel it best not to...it may something very trivial.. no james bond stuff.. but I can exercise the right to abstain from talking about it.
Should steve jobs have revealed everything about the iphone 4 after that prototype was lost and found?.. what if the iphone was not up to the hype..what if it spurred nokia to make a better competitor after knowing what it would be facing?

Now..for the record..I dont state ANYwhere that the IAF C4I is obsolete.. useless etc...please point out the post where I did do that.
In my opinion all that data published on wikipedia is on operational systems which are in the process of having their replacement or upgrade being developed..which DRDO has possibly not even disclosed.
My contention is however.. with your countrymen.. who refuse to believe that we can keep up with you.. or at least make comparable..even if not better systems..
You of all are familiar with me from the start..
You have seen my posts at the beginning and their tone..
and now..
Wonder what caused the change..?

 

[humza_313]

Kid, when your students were lining up for jobs in these companies, our professionals were already heading product lines in these companies or starting their own ventures. Google Vinod Dham, Sabeer Bhatia and Vinod Khosla and you will know what I am talking about....

Just check this link here and you will understand. A bit dated but it will give you a reality check.

People of Indian origin heading multinationals - ET Slide Shows - Features - The Economic Times

I am not saying Pakistan's students and professionals are not in demand or aren't doing well. They are as smart as any other country's but India, due to its comparatively better education system has a head start. It might not last long though.

well sir...!
whatever you have said isn't enough..! the so called companies that you think indians work in and the poor pakistani students waiting in line..>! id just like to say...! BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You will find a pakistani in every part of the world working for professional companies..!

the only difference is that the indians are in a greater number beacuse you people have no control over your population..! just keep on multiplying like bacteria..!~

but i think we have really gone way off-topic and lets not continue.>!

 

[silent hawk]

COMPARISION OF PAKISTAN AND INDIA SATELLITE AND SATELLITE CONTROL SYSTEMS​

Comming back to the topic. This is the comparision based on data gathered so far

PAKISTANI SYSTEMS

By the end of 2011, Pakistan plans to replace PAKSAT-1 with a new communication satellite PAKSAT-1R which will be manufactured exclusively for Pakistan. The satellite will support all conventional and modern Fixed Satellite Service (FSS) applications. The satellite will have a total of up to 30 transponders: 18 in Ku-band and 12 in C-band. To ensure high degree of reliability / availability of the system, two (02) fully redundant Satellite Ground Control Stations (SGCS) would be established in Karachi and Lahore, one to act as the Main and the other as Backup respectively.

This will contribute to our Armed Forces SATCOM abilities

There is relevance. Pakistan for quite some time has been operating a SATCOM system to provide data and voice. At present this system is dependent on foreign satellites. With our own satellite dependency on foreign elements shall be eliminated.

After successful launching and operation of BADR series of experimental satellites (BADR-1 and BADR-B) in the 1990s and early 2000s, SUPARCO now plans to launch high resolution remote sensing satellite system (RSSS) to meet the national and international user requirements in the field of satellite imagery.

A feasibility and system definition study was concluded in January 2007 which recommended the launch of a constellation of Optical and Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) Satellites to ensure that the domestic and international user requirements are competitively met. In this respect the RFP for RSSS consultancy services was launched in July 2007. Launch of RFP for the manufacturing of the satellite is planned in the third quarter of year 2008.

RSSS is planned to be a progressive and sustainable program. Initially, SUPARCO plans to launch an optical satellite with payload of 2.5 meter PAN in 700 km sun-synchronous orbit by the end of year 2011, which will be followed by a series of optical and SAR satellites in future. Necessary infrastructure for ground control and image reception and processing is also planned to be setup.

INDIAN SYSTEMS

Past Use of Satellite Imagery by Armed Forces

Indian Armed Forces have used imagery from ISRO civil satellites since the early 1990s.

Most civil satellites can be used for military purposes. Someone just has to analyze the data, which is a lot of grunt work. Most militaries use commercially available imagery from satellites. Western analysts have managed to keep track of Chinese missile and nuclear submarine deployment using Google Earth!

TES
Imagery from the TES satellite launched in 2001 using PSLV-C3 has been used by the Indian Military. The satellite provides sub 1m resolution in the visual spectrum.

RISAT-2
RISAT-2, launched in with an Israeli X-Band SAR has the most advanced surveillance capabilities amongst Indian satellites in orbit. The 300 kg can take 1 m resolution images at night and through clouds.

Dedicated Military Satellite Program

DRDO Chief Saraswat's announcement signals India's decision not to be coy about its military satellite program. The shift in policy probably stems from the knowledge that its military satellite program will not attract US sanctions against ISRO as would have happened in the past.

“We are looking at launching one or two satellites every year to fulfill the requirements of all three military formations,” Saraswat said.

“Once these satellites are operational, we will be able to see troop movements along the borders,” he added. “The key is high-resolution images with precision.

“The army, the navy and the air force have varied requirements, and it won’t be appropriate to give the numbers.

"Data and commands can be sent through these satellites to cruise missiles.”

The satellites will be developed and launched by ISRO based on requirements projected by the armed forces.

Communication-Centric Intelligence Satellite (CCI-Sat)
The satellite is being developed with a budget of Rs 100 crore by theDefense Electronics Research Laboratory (DLRL) under the Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO).

The existence of the project was revealed on Tuesday, February 2010 by DLRL director G. Bhoopathy.

"We are in the process of designing and developing a spacecraft fitted with an intelligent sensor that will pick up conversations and communications across the borders," he told reporters in Bangalore before the start of the first international conference on electronic warfare (EWCI 2010).

The satellite will feature a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and be used for imaging and communication. It will be capable of detecting conversations and espionage activities in the region.

“The satellite will orbit Earth at 500 km. and cover hostile regions in the area by passing on surveillance data to intelligence agencies,” G. Bhoopathy, DRDL director told AW&ST in November 2010.

The satellite will be launched in the lower earth orbit — about 500 km above the earth — on board the polar satellite launch vehicle (PSLV).

The satellite, which will be operational by 2014, will also serve as a test bed for anti-satellite weapon development.

Navy Satellite

A dedicated satellite to facilitating Naval communication and network centric warfare will be launched into geostationary orbit by ISRO in 2010, Indian Defense Minister, AK Antony announced during Senior Naval Officers Conference in New Delhi on October 22, 2009.

The satellite will facilitate networking of IN warships, submarines and aircraft among themselves as well as with operational centres ashore through high-speed data-links, allowing Maritime threats to be detected and shared in real-time to ensure swift reaction.

The multi-band satellite will weigh 2,330 kg. (5,137 lb.),

The satellite will provide coverage over a 600 x 1,000 nm area of the Indian Ocean Region (IOR), which India considers to be its primary area of responsibility in terms of maritime security.

The project cost is Rs 950 crore.

IAF Satellite

The first dedicated IAF satellite is scheduled for launch in FY 2011-12, after the Navy satellite scheduled for launch in FY 2010-11.

The satellite was initially scheduled to be launched in July 2009, according to a PTI report on November 18, 2008. In early January 2009, the IAF Chief said the IAF satellite will be launched in 2010.

According to IAF Chief Fali H. Major, the satellite will serve as the air force's eye in the skies. It will link up the six AWACS that the IAF is acquiring with each other as well as other ground and airbased radars.

Integrated Space Cell

An Integrated Space Cell, which will be jointly operated by all the three services of the Indian armed forces, the civilian Department of Space and the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) has been set up to utilize more effectively the country's space-based assets for military purposes and to look into threats to these assets.[7][8] This command will leverage space technology including satellites. Unlike an aerospace command, where the air force controls most of its activities, the Integrated Space Cell envisages cooperation and coordination between the three services as well as civilian agencies dealing with space.[70]

India currently has 11 remote sensing satellites in orbit. Though most are not meant to be dedicated military satellites, some have a spacial resolution of 1 metre or below which can be also used for military applications. Noteworthy satellites include the Technology Experiment Satellite (TES) which has a panchromatic camera (PAN) with a resolution of 1 metre,[71] the RISAT-2 which is capable of imaging in all-weather conditions and has a resolution of one metre,[72] the CARTOSAT-2, CARTOSAT-2A[73] (a dedicated military satellite)[74] and CARTOSAT-2B[75] which carries a panchromatic camera which has a resolution of 80 centimetres (black and white only).


Integrated Space Cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Indian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Indians definetly have an edge in this domain. They have been working in this area since 1990 and have satellites, rockets and a Command and Control Centers.

Pakistan has a SATCOM system in place

Both countries have comprehensive plans to improve their space programs.

Once again India seems to be focused on Strategic aspects while Pakistan's focus remains on tactical issues.

If I have left any sytems please add them

 

[deckingraj]

Now..
How do you brandish a C4I system?
Now.. lets assume.. that the pretty scans I just saw are of an operational system.. in that case.. you just gave your enemies the idea that you are pulling ahead.. they panic..they push more into their programs.. they put more money into competing with you here.. or in another weapon system..
You find out.. you feel set back.. you spend more.. the other guy.. who cannot keep up on this linear approach.. decided to upgrade his non-conventional arsenal.. do you see the pattern here..its called an arms race..we have been at it... for over...lets see.. 65 years or so??
Would you rather slow it down.. or speed it up..
Is it better to be satisfied with being better by the knowledge of having extremely high tech systems.. or by knowing all of that.. and knowing that the other guy is now more insecure because of it and is making more nukes??

To answer your second last paragraph..
Have you ever heard of Operational security?.. its not only nations that practice it..

Please do keep in mind that Military estabishments are not dependent on information in Public domain to get to know about their rivals....ISI is not dependent on what is published in TOI and neither Raw on dawn...Paritosh argument is also valid - The reason most of the militaries around the world bring their latest and greatest acquisitions/weapons is to give a message to adversary - Don't dare to think the unthinkable- i will give you a bloody nose....

Let me give you an example - The whole world is specualting about Pakistan ever increasing nuclear arsenal. Pakistan has not acknowledged it but the news is out...right???? Regarding F-22 can you tell me a good enough reason that they did tell about the program??? Yes they will never tell the real strengths of the fighter air-craft but they have boasted a lot about this aircraft. Can there be any doubt that F22 is responsible for T-50 and possible chinese JXX??? Now question should be why the hell they(read US) brought F22 into light???? They could have kept that in dark and bang the enemy with a big surprise, no????

Sir, let me be very candid about it...You can hide the real parameters about a weapon but hiding the entire weapon is not as easy as it sounds....


Also keep in mind that we are not in Arms race with Pakistan. It is opposite, in other words we get more fancy toys and thereafter to maintain parity Pakistan join. So by not declaring something you are not helping Arms race at all...Secondly if you know about this ability and are telling it on public forum then would it be right to say indian establishment is not aware of this(if true)???...In short your point about the arms race is not valid, no???....Anyhow i am not saying that you are wrong but expecting people to believe things just on hear say is not fair either....

 

[Ammyy]

The Indians definetly have an edge in this domain. They have been working in this area since 1990 and have satellites, rockets and a Command and Control Centers.

Pakistan has a SATCOM system in place

Both countries have comprehensive plans to improve their space programs.

Once again India seems to be focused on Strategic aspects while Pakistan's focus remains on tactical issues.

If I have left any sytems please add them

DRDO develops SATCOM datalink for Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) System
Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: DRDO develops SATCOM datalink for Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) System

 

[SQ8]

Please do keep in mind that Military estabishments are not dependent on information in Public domain to get to know about their rivals....ISI is not dependent on what is published in TOI and neither Raw on dawn...Paritosh argument is also valid - The reason most of the militaries around the world bring their latest and greatest acquisitions/weapons is to give a message to adversary - Don't dare to think the unthinkable- i will give you a bloody nose....

Let me give you an example - The whole world is specualting about Pakistan ever increasing nuclear arsenal. Pakistan has not acknowledged it but the news is out...right???? Regarding F-22 can you tell me a good enough reason that they did tell about the program??? Yes they will never tell the real strengths of the fighter air-craft but they have boasted a lot about this aircraft. Can there be any doubt that F22 is responsible for T-50 and possible chinese JXX??? Now question should be why the hell they(read US) brought F22 into light???? They could have kept that in dark and bang the enemy with a big surprise, no????

Sir, let me be very candid about it...You can hide the real parameters about a weapon but hiding the entire weapon is not as easy as it sounds....


Also keep in mind that we are not in Arms race with Pakistan. It is opposite, in other words we get in more fancy toys out then to maintain parity Pakistan join. So by not declaring something you are not helping Arms race at all...Secondly if you know about this ability and are telling it on public forum then can we say indian establishment is not aware of this(if true)...So the point about arms race is not valid, no???....Anyhow i am not saying that you are wrong but expecting people to believe things just on hear say is not fair either....

I agree on your first argument..
Yet.. if all that is said in wikileaks..quite a bit of it was out.. why the furore over it?
Let me give you an example...
A organization has developed a large scale fingerprint recognition system..for our government. It is a very large project.. for a very large application..
There was a tender for it.. the company won it and now the system was field testing it was put on the website.
http://www.ictrdf.org.pk/fp-mpfrs.htm
http://www.case.edu.pk/AFISAbout.aspx
There is another project in development by the same.. larger than scale in this.. in an advanced stage.. and not just for domestic consumption.
Yet.. there is no proof on the internet for it?
So are they doing it? you look at it without me telling you..
no..
But I am telling you ..they are..
that is my point.
The MI or RAW dont need these public sources..but they may use them from time to time. Imagine some overeager DRDO engineer gives out the Hopping freq rate for a new radio on the internet.. its not published by DRDO.. and although. provides trivail help for any potential adversary ..is still a breach of contract...should he not be penalized..will he not be?.. there is a possibility..right?
Sure..89% chance that he is ignored..
but there is a 11% his boss calls him up about why a report on him disclosing such details have come to him..possible?

Onto your second one..
lets assume for a while.. Pakistan says that it truly has only 30 nukes..
Would that not spur the hawks in the Indian military..the next time if another incident of terrorism takes place in India.. to not just hit militant camps..but an all out war..in which India would risk a nuclear attack since it can absorb that blow and still operate.
On the other hand.. what if it comes out that we have 500 nukes..
suddenly the whole world is worried what all of those are for..and the current apprehension about them falling into the wrong hands would multiply ten fold.

The F-22 spurred on the T-50.. true..
But the ATF program was very very public.. like its predecessor the F-X..
But what was spurred on by the F-117?
No comparable Russian jet appeared.
What of the Kh-11 recon sat.. which was only rumored to exist until finally acknowledged.
Paritosh mentioned that I should not compare Pakistan to the US..
well true..but then dont compare Pakistan's security concerns and dictations for secrecy to the US as well.
Tomorrow.. if the system I am working on is announced..
Ill gladly post all the details here...with numbers.
Till then..I cannot.

 

[deckingraj]

I agree on your first argument..
Yet.. if all that is said in wikileaks..quite a bit of it was out.. why the furore over it?
Let me give you an example...
A organization has developed a large scale fingerprint recognition system..for our government. It is a very large project.. for a very large application..
There was a tender for it.. the company won it and now the system was field testing it was put on the website.
.:: CASE: Center For Advance Studies In Engineering ::.
There is another project in development.. larger than scale in this.. in an advanced stage.. and not just for domestic consumption.
Yet.. there is no proof on the internet for it?

So are they doing it? you look at it without me telling you..
no..
But I am telling you ..they are..
that is my point.

Fair enough...and yes saying "whatever is not there on internet is not true" is not correct...The only problem is that what is not on internet and true should be kept that way only...Bringing it out in a public forum will not help because people will ask for proof and we will not be able to provide it...

As said in the previous post, i am not saying that you are wrong(you would have reasons to say what you are) but to be fair with other posters they are right when they are asking you to back up your claims with proof.

 

[silent hawk]

I agree on your first argument..
Yet.. if all that is said in wikileaks..quite a bit of it was out.. why the furore over it?
Let me give you an example...
A organization has developed a large scale fingerprint recognition system..for our government. It is a very large project.. for a very large application..
There was a tender for it.. the company won it and now the system was field testing it was put on the website.
National ICT R&D Fund
.:: CASE: Center For Advance Studies In Engineering ::.
There is another project in development by the same.. larger than scale in this.. in an advanced stage.. and not just for domestic consumption.
Yet.. there is no proof on the internet for it?
So are they doing it? you look at it without me telling you..
no..
But I am telling you ..they are..
that is my point.

Onto your second one..
lets assume for a while.. Pakistan says that it truly has only 30 nukes..
Would that not spur the hawks in the Indian military..the next time if another incident of terrorism takes place in India.. to not just hit militant camps..but an all out war..in which India would risk a nuclear attack since it can absorb that blow and still operate.
On the other hand.. what if it comes out that we have 500 nukes..
suddenly the whole world is worried what all of those are for..and the current apprehension about them falling into the wrong hands would multiply ten fold.

The F-22 spurred on the T-50.. true..
But the ATF program was very very public.. like its predecessor the F-X..
But what was spurred on by the F-117?
No comparable Russian jet appeared.
What of the Kh-11 recon sat.. which was only rumored to exist until finally acknowledged.
Paritosh mentioned that I should not compare Pakistan to the US..
well true..but then dont compare Pakistan's security concerns and dictations for secrecy to the US as well.
Tomorrow.. if the system I am working on is announced..
Ill gladly post all the details here...with numbers.
Till then..I cannot.

CASE/CARE are also developing some C4I system

 

[SQ8]

CASE/CARE are also developing some C4I system

Well could you PM me on that?

 

[SQ8]

Fair enough...and yes saying "whatever is not there on internet is not true" is not correct...The only problem is that what is not on internet and true should be kept that way only...Bringing it out in a public forum will not help because people will ask for proof and we will not be able to provide it...

As said in the previous post, i am not saying that you are wrong(you would have reasons to say what you are) but to be fair with other posters they are right when they are asking you to back up your claims with proof.

I dont ask them to accept..
I am all for agree to disagree..
But then when these less exp posters start with condescending comments.. and resort to low level jabs..
Does it not ruin the whole idea of the thread? Of this whole forum rather?

On another note..
If for example..
an automotive engineer(who we are 80% sure is in the automotive indrustry) talks to you about a new car being developed that goes 100km to the liter.. on Air conditioning.
But a construction contractor contradicts him by bringing in thirty articles on fuel consumption..air drag..etc.
would you not be inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the person whole field it is.. or to the contractor?

 

[deckingraj]

Onto your second one..
lets assume for a while.. Pakistan says that it truly has only 30 nukes..
Would that not spur the hawks in the Indian military..the next time if another incident of terrorism takes place in India.. to not just hit militant camps..but an all out war..in which India would risk a nuclear attack since it can absorb that blow and still operate.
On the other hand.. what if it comes out that we have 500 nukes..
suddenly the whole world is worried what all of those are for..and the current apprehension about them falling into the wrong hands would multiply ten fold.

With all due respect sir but i see this argument of yours is simply not correct. Let me share my thought process

- During Kargil Pakistan was a newly created nuclear nation. Surely you would have less number of nukes than 30 at that point. If we did not initiated a full-fledge war at that time then why will we when you have 30??? In short even few nukes can keep the enemy at bay...i don't want to loose mumbai over entire Pakistan...because by destroying Pakistan i don't gain anything but loose a lot by loosing Mumbai. No???

- Look at North Korea. How many nukes do you think they have??? Even after so many provocations there is hardly any war in Korean theater. Do i need to tell you about the number of nukes that US has vs North Korea???

- As said you don't need to announce it. World will not get to know the exact number but they go with their intelligence report. If CIA is saying that pak has around 80 weapons and they are increase there number like anything, this is what US is going to believe in and will act accordingly. In short there are enough indications that you are increasing your arsenal rapidly. Exact numbers don't matter...Estimates will do the job...

The F-22 spurred on the T-50.. true..
But the ATF program was very very public.. like its predecessor the F-X..
But what was spurred on by the F-117?
No comparable Russian jet appeared.
What of the Kh-11 recon sat.. which was only rumored to exist until finally acknowledged.

Thanks for putting in the last line. No matter you acknowledge or not your adversary is not going to wait till your acknowledgement before he starts working on the counter...We all know the cash starved Russia post USSR otherwise T-50 is not something that have been drawn from scratch after F-22 was inducted. The plan was there, the idea was there but work had to be stalled due to cash issue...If we look at the history of cold-war both Ruskies and Yankies were churning out state-of-art weapons and counters pretty consistantly....

Paritosh mentioned that I should not compare Pakistan to the US..

He is right...I was drawing an analogy to say that why countries would like to bring their deadliest weapons in full public glare. The logic is simple - Win the war without fighting it...

well true..but then dont compare Pakistan's security concerns and dictations for secrecy to the US as well.Tomorrow.. if the system I am working on is announced..
Ill gladly post all the details here...with numbers.
Till then..I cannot.

Which is the right thing to do...

Regards