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PAF Vs IAF Command and Control Systems

Nice to see that this thread has by now is among the top 15 most viewed threads in this forum.

Real Life issues have kept me away from this forum for some time. A lot has happened in between. PAF has acquired new systems such as SPADA. Various Tactical Data links have become operational. The latest history book of PAF has been published where they have finally published the contributions of Project Vision. This project was initiated by Air Cdre Shahid Hamid Shigri and has created a world class highly capable C4ISR system which is capable of thwarting Indian aggressive designs. The command and control systems shown in the video below are all indigenous developments of Project Vision. They played an important role in deterring Indian designs in 2002 and would do so even today.


I am sure there are developments on the Indian side as well. Would try to post more data here and would request members with domain knowledge to do the same. As always my aim is to make this a once stop location for those seeking knowledge about this topic.
 
I am sure there are developments on the Indian side as well. Would try to post more data here and would request members with domain knowledge to do the same. As always my aim is to make this a once stop location for those seeking knowledge about this topic.
Latest development is the IAF's IACC:




Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) is an automated Air Defense Command and Control center for controlling and monitoring of Air Operations by Air Force. In network centric warfare era, Recognized Air Situation Picture (RASP) information plays a very critical role and is required to be made available at the appropriate level for executing series of tactical decisions. These levels are strategic level (Air head Quarter),Operational level (Command Head quarter) and Tactical Level (Divisional level).The information sharing involves sharing of the critical data through dedicated links among Navy, Army and Civil Radar network also. The IACCS system receives data from different types of homogeneous/ heterogeneous radars (2-D or 3-D), generate reports from mobile observation posts and integrates other data elements from various other Air Force Airbases or Civilian agencies viz Air Traffic Control, Air Force Movement Liaison Unit including airborne AWACS etc. to create real time comprehensive Recognized Air Situation Picture (RASP) at IACCS Command & Control Centre (C & C Centre). The connectivity of sensors/agencies from/to the IACCS - C and C Centre is deployed on a wide area network based on IP protocol.


Flashback:
On September 14, 2010, the Indian Air Force launched its much-awaited digital information grid, AFNET, signifying a new era of communication and information in the IAF. AFNET replaces IAF’s old communication network using the tropo-scatter technology of the 1950s, and marks a major step towards becoming a net-centric combat force. AFNET is a dedicated fibre-optic wide area network that offers up to 500 MBPS encrypted, secure bandwidth.
It incorporates the latest traffic transportation technology in the form of IP (Internet Protocol) packets over the network using Multi Protocol Label Switching (MPLS). A large VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) layer with stringent quality of service enforcement facilitates robust, high quality voice, video and conferencing solutions. Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS), an automated command and control system for Air Defence (AD) operations, will ride the AFNET backbone integrating all ground-based and airborne sensors, AD weapon systems and C2 nodes. Subsequent integration with other services networks and civil radars will provide an integrated Air Situation Picture to operators to carry out AD role. All major formations and static establishments have been linked through a secure Wide Area Network (WAN) and are accessible through data communication lines. Decision-makers can now get intelligence inputs (for example, live video feed from UAVs, geoint images from AWACS etc.) from far-flung areas at central locations seamlessly.

Current Developments:
As of September 2015, five years after the deployment of AFNET - The Indian Air Force has already established 5 nodes of the IACCS in the western sector facing Pakistan at Barnala (Punjab), Wadsar (Gujarat), Aya Nagar (Delhi), Jodhpur (Rajasthan) and Ambala (Haryana) with help from government owned defence contractor - Bharat Electronics Limited.
The 4 new major nodes and 10 new sub-nodes will come up under Phase-II of the IACCS project. While 3 nodes will be deployed in eastern, central and southern India, the fourth is meant for the strategically-located Andaman and Nicobar Islands archipelago in Bay of Bengal, watching over Malacca Strait.
The primary objective to deploy such an integrated solution derived from all airborne and ground-based civilian and military radars around the country, is to ensure any intrusion by a hostile aircraft, helicopter, drone or micro-light can be detected and tackled as soon as it takes place. It has been speculated, some of the new nodes will be located in underground complexes to improve survivability at the time of enemy attacks, even as the entire IACCS infrastructure is also being upgraded with advanced early-warning, jam-resistant radars and the like.

Future:
1. Deployment of Air Force Specific Satellites, starting with GSAT-7A :

An advanced communication satellite GSAT-7A for the Indian Air Force is currently being developed in ISRO Satellite Centre, GSAT-7A is similar to Indian navy's GSAT-7 which will enable IAF to interlink different ground radar stations, ground airbase and Airborne early warning and control AWACS such as Beriev A-50 Phalcon and DRDO AEW&CS. Due Launch : End of 2015

2. Enhancing the capabilities of Integrated Space Cell :
This particular command was established by previous Indian government under Dr. Manmohan Singh as Prime Minister, which basically leverages on various space technologies including satellites. Unlike an aerospace command, where the air force controls most of its activities, the Integrated Space Cell envisages cooperation and coordination between the three services as well as civilian agencies dealing with space. A strong and a deterrent Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) plays a very important role in this command by funneling RSAP information and directing it towards required terminals of approved elements.
Conclusion:
Within next 5 years, IACCS is going to enable high situational awareness for all war fighters and the battle commanders even at “remote from the battlefield” locations. Also, The IAF would, in 10 years, be moving towards dynamic targeting of it's ordnance.It would be in the process of developing capability to data link with, say a missile in flight, to reassign its target or modify its attack profile on the fly. Being a state-of-the-art technology-driven organisation, the IAF has been in a state of transformation since the day of it's inception. However, the speed of technological advancements has led to greater emphasis on its current transformation. When we look at IACCS and it's aspects - this transformation share the common characteristic of being tailor-made to make the IAF more efficient and effective in execution of the combat roles.

ANALYSIS | India's Integrated Air Command & Control System (IACCS) : A NCW Milestone|IndraStra Global : Analysis, On The Dot
 
india HAS MASSIVE SPACE TECHNOLOGY...

india has ten times the money of the Pakistanis.

IT GOES with out saying in this arena INDIA is far far ahead of Pakistan.

NON DEBATE

Actually since 1980 PAF has maintained a clear edge in this domain. The following article by an Indian is proof in this regard.

http://www.claws.in/images/journals_doc/SW J.99-106.pdf

Also in the very useful article above in the conclusion it is mentioned that it will take five more years before a high state of awareness is achieved . In Pakistan that state is already there. Keep watching this thread to discover further capabilities of our automation system.

PAF's Air Defence has a very organized structure which incorporates all elements. There are different command and control systems at various levels which allow graceful degeneration in case of system malfunction or degradation. The structure is given below:-

upload_2015-10-4_23-16-47.png



The IACCS structure on the other hand seems to have a single point of failure.

AKSCHIN-002.jpg



Are there redundancies in this system because from this diagram destruction of the operational level ADCC would neutralize the whole system.
 
Actually since 1980 PAF has maintained a clear edge in this domain. The following article by an Indian is proof in this regard.

http://www.claws.in/images/journals_doc/SW J.99-106.pdf

Also in the very useful article above in the conclusion it is mentioned that it will take five more years before a high state of awareness is achieved . In Pakistan that state is already there. Keep watching this thread to discover further capabilities of our automation system.

PAF's Air Defence has a very organized structure which incorporates all elements. There are different command and control systems at various levels which allow graceful degeneration in case of system malfunction or degradation. The structure is given below:-

View attachment 262288


The IACCS structure on the other hand seems to have a single point of failure.

AKSCHIN-002.jpg



Are there redundancies in this system because from this diagram destruction of the operational level ADCC would neutralize the whole system.
The IAF's ADCC (Air defence Command and Control) is not a single entity but a dispersed network of integrated operational command centres. As the diagram indicates, these independent ADCCs receive data/information from all relevant sensors and centres to form an integrated picture of all Indian air space. There are multiple layers of redundancy built in at every level.

This is data fusion on a mind-boggling scale.

Actually since 1980 PAF has maintained a clear edge in this domain. The following article by an Indian is proof in this regard.

http://www.claws.in/images/journals_doc/SW J.99-106.pdf
Rather outdated now. The IACC didn't even exist in 2012 and AFNET was in its nascent stages.


IACC itself ties in all available sensors on both a tactical and strategic level (AWACS, civil radar, naval radar, army radar, air force radar, satellites etc etc) to form an unparalleled picture of Indian airspace. I can't see how Pakistan/PAF has any edge now. Thanks to MASSIVE investment (billions of USD) the IAF has surpassed all regional forces in this regard and has one of the most advanced systems in the world in place.

How the PAF could match such a colossal investment is beyond me.
 
May be integration of systems are there in in case of PAF but capabilities required to be improved like anti stealth capabilities, high altitude SAMS specifically capable to counter jets flying above 60,000 Ft., Jamming and Anti Jamming capabilities, Satellite based defense capabilities etc. Our air defense should not be India centric only as with development of economic corridor we may face many other challenges. We may face today's friends as foes.with changing dimensions of Iran/Arab conflict as Pak can't keep itself away from this conflict for long.

If someone may negate my points with facts he will be highly appreciated.
 
Rather outdated now. The IACC didn't even exist in 2012 and AFNET was in its nascent stages.

.

The advantage which I wanted to highlight was experience. We are more than 30 years ahead in operating, maintaining and developing Air Defence Automation Systems. Indians are always talking about the large amounts of money they have. Unfortunately you cannot buy experience.

. Our air defense should not be India centric only as with development of economic corridor we may face many other challenges. We may face today's friends as foes.with changing dimensions of Iran/Arab conflict as Pak can't keep itself away from this conflict for long.

.

I totally agree with your point of view. PAF is cognizant of the evolving scenario and after Abbottabad it is no longer India centric. Radar coverage now covers the whole of Pakistan instead of just covering the eastern border. Further advancements are also being done in this domain.
 
Mine is better thn urz.. yours is shit mine is WOW... your using old i am using latest.. in short dhakan comparison! both Air force equipped according to their need, investment and according to their level of interest in Air command. IMO, in today's world, every Air force equipped with latest technologies.
 
Mine is better thn urz.. yours is shit mine is WOW... your using old i am using latest.. in short dhakan comparison! .

Well I would have to admit that such sort of exchanges are fun and as long as decency is maintained I feel there is nothing wrong about it. After all this is a discussion forum and one purpose of such discussions is to have fun.

I remember that when I started this thread five years ago i had quite such exchanges with Rockstar.

But this thread is not just about fun and frolic. To me there is no other place where so much data on this topic is available at one place. This of course is mutually beneficial.

There is another reason for spending time here. I like getting likes and feel good when the views of this thread increase.

:yahoo:Thanks everyone for viewing this thread more than 100,000 times:yahoo:
 
An old thread for sure, but recent events have shown that AFNET is not quite as good as the PR Video suggests. Where do they go from here? You would have thought, that one thing that the Indians would be good at, is Software development !!!!!
 
So much for:

RISAT with 1 m resolution which can see through clouds
BARS with 400 km range which will kill F 16 at 125 km
Bisons with Israeli jammers, Kypo radars and with BVRs

And C4I systems years ahead of Pakistan. And when the time came even the radios were not working.

@silent hawk Sir you stand corrected 100%.
 
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So much for:

RISAT with 1 m resolution which can see through clouds
BARS with 400 km range which will kill F 16 at 125 km
Bisons with Israeli jammers, Kypo radars and with BVRs

And C4I systems years ahead of Pakistan. And when the time came even the radios were not working.

@silent hawk Sir you stand corrected 100%.
As I said in other thread's Pakistan don't have to do apples to Orange comparison with what India have , in my view Pakistan have better synergy and resource utilization than India, feb27 was a proof of that, even IAF generation ahead of paf in network oriented warfare and operations, their miss calculation or over confidence bit back in their Ares, am pretty much sure IAF was well aware of PAF package and wait till something to happen but reason they only filed 8 aircraft for cap shows either incapbility in service rate or lack of proper counter bvr or stand off attack doctrines, one point I not agreeing with this forum is fielding mig21 the mig21 bis was upgraded and they done well against f16 in cup India exercises the reason for its shoot down mostly the pilot over stepped his stay in Pakistan soil and well planed paf ambush tactics, considering spider Sam deployed on afb Srinagar and friendly fire from their part shows some operational deficiency in IAF air defence producer's so next time Feb 27 like situations raises paf may or maynot have option to exploit this vulnerability, "its not million dollar equipment make u win a war its the man who using it "
 
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As I said in other thread's Pakistan don't have to do apples to Orange comparison with what India have , in my view Pakistan have better synergy and resource utilization than India, feb27 was a proof of that, even IAF generation ahead of paf in network oriented warfare and operations, their miss calculation or over confidence bit back in their Ares, am pretty much sure IAF was well aware of PAF package and wait till something to happen but reason they only filed 8 aircraft for cap shows either incapbility in service rate or lack of proper counter bvr or stand off attack doctrines, one point I not agreeing with this forum is fielding mig21 the mig21 bis was upgraded and they done well against f16 in cup India exercises the reason for its shoot down mostly the pilot over stepped his stay in Pakistan soil and well planed paf ambush tactics, considering spider Sam deployed on afb Srinagar and friendly fire from their part shows some operational deficiency in IAF air defence producer's so next time Feb 27 like situations raises paf may or maynot have option to exploit this vulnerability, "its not million dollar equipment make u win a war its the man who using it "

The reason for the easy shoot down of the Mig-21 was the AWACS flying in Pakistan. Had it not been for that sort of a battlefield picture being available, it might have actually posed a threat to PAF fighters.
 
PAF now needs a much better command and control system after Rafale fighters and new command & control systems of Indian Airforce.
 
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