PAF Vs IAF Command and Control Systems

silent hawk · Nov 28, 2010

This thread has now become a comprehensive resource for all those who want to know about PAF and IAF Command and Control Systems. I thank all contributors. For ease of use I shall be giving links to the most interesting posts on the first page. I thank all contributors for the data provided.

Command and Control Systems are an essential element of any War Fighting Machinery.(If you have less time the essential elements are in bold)

From Air Force Monthly

India's air defence network is essentially divided into two parts - the ADGES and the Base Air Defence Zones (BADZ)

Indian Air Defences: Sensor Network The Indian ADGES employs a three-tier detection network. While this system is currently in the process of a major modernisation programme, the basic structure of the network will remain unchanged.

The first layer, rather surprisingly, consists of Mobile Observation Posts (MOPs) similar in concept to the British Observer Corps of World War Two. These remain among the most reliable of the early-warning mechanisms available to the Indian Air Force. The MOPS consist of two-man teams equipped with an HF/VHF radio set and field glasses. The personnel in the MOP give the first warning of airborne intrusion, the general direction of the attack and, more often than not, the numbers and types of the attacking aircraft. The MOPS provided invaluable service during the 1971 IndiaPakistan war. The MOPS are scattered along the borders randomly, at intervals of between 40 and 72 miles (25 and 45km). They are assisted in this task by personnel from the Indian police and paramilitary forces who are given some training in aircraft identification. These agencies report to the Indian Air Defence network via a communications system using both HF/VHF radio sets and telephone lines. A more advanced communications system based on fibre optic cables and satellite communications would also assist the MOPS in reporting to the radar picket line.

The radar picket line, which lies about-93 miles (150km) behind the MOPs, consists of a number of radar clusters. These comprise three radar stations separated at a distance of the sum of their radii. The equipment issued to these clusters generally comprises one Sovietera ST-68/U and two P-18/-19 radars. These are then flanked by two P-12/-15 radars. The ST-68/U acts as the Control and Reporting Centre (CRC). This may have changed somewhat as the ST-68U, which was plagued with nagging development problems, was supposed to replace older Soviet-made equipment. The ST-68/U is known by NATO as the Tin Shield radar and has a maximum range of some 217 miles (350km). It is optimised for the detection of low-flying aircraft and cruise missiles employing electronic countermeasures (ECM). Moreover, India has been producing the French-designed TRS-2215D 3-D surveillance radar under licence for a number of years and has derived from that an indigenously built radar - PSM-33 Mk 2. This has probably supplanted most of the older Soviet-bloc equipment. The TRS-2215D and PSM-33 Mk.2 have surveillance ranges of up to 317 (510km) with a peak power output of 660-700kW operating in the E/F bands and possess a very significant ECCM capability. The old P-12 and even the P-18/-19 families of radars are a different matter. While these systems have a respectable detection range, they are very much of an older vintage and have been severely compromised after their use in the Arab-Israeli wars and other conflicts. Their replacement by the ST-68/U was plagued by technical problems and the replacement of the older radars may not yet be complete. A number of Air Defence Control Centres (ADCCs) are located behind the radar picket line. The radar picket line and the ADCC are separated by a layer of air defence weapons which are the first to engage the intruders.

The backbone of the Indian Air Defence Ground Environment system is the huge THD-1955 3-D long-range surveillance radar that was once in widespread use throughout NATO. This radar, originally of French design, has been licence-built in India for a number of years. This E/F-band radar, though somewhat elderly, still offers sterling performance characteristics and is capable of maximum detection ranges of up to 620 miles (1,000km), though the Indian Air Force usually limits its power to a 250 miles (400km) detection range. These form the core of the ADCCs. The THD-1955 has a peak operating power of up to 20MW, though its normal operating power is usually 2MW. The radar has comprehensive ECM/ECCM capabilities and has no real detection altitude limitation. If the radar has one disadvantage, it is its sheer size. The Indian Air Force has undertaken to upgrade these radars with digital signal processing and clutter removal techniques.

The ADGES communication system is also being updated by the digitalisation of the analogue links and back-up satellite and fibre-optic communications. The IAF uses extensive microwave communications systems and mobile digital troposcatter terminals.

Like the ADGES, the BADZ consists of three layers. The first of these are the mobile observation posts, followed by a mixed layer of weapons and their associated radars, along with a picket line of low-level radars. These are, in turn, supported by anti-aircraft artillery batteries. This network is controlled by a ST68U radar, supported by other radars such as the TRS-2215D and the PSM-33. Low-level detection gaps are filled by the Indian-made Indra-1 radar which has a range of 30 miles (50km). The BADZ provides comprehensive and gapfree coverage over its assigned area of responsibility. Some observers have likened the BADZ set-up to the defence pattern of a carrier battle group. Any aircraft attacking a vital military target, therefore, not only has to get past the ADGES, but also the far more formidable BADZ.

From Air Force Monthly

Strategic Air Defences in Pakistan

Pakistan's Air Defence Command was formed in 1975. It is based at Chaklala air force base near Rawalpindi and exercises control, surveillance and co-ordination over all Pakistani airspace. The ADC HQ is based in bunkers 16 to 32ft (5 to 10m) below ground and has four rows of consoles with 20-25 men operating them. All units - aircraft, air bases and AAA units - are represented on screens. In fact, the ADC HQ set-up is regarded as being one of the most modern in existence.

Subordinate to the ADC HQ are four Sector Operations Centres, which in turn control six Control & Reporting Centres (CRCs). The four sector headquarters are located at Quetta, Sargodha, Karachi and Peshawar. As in the case of India, Pakistan has a comprehensive radar network which can also accept data from the civilian air traffic control radar. The radar network was established from 1976 onwards as part of Project CRYSTAL which aimed to give Pakistan a modern air defence network. Pakistan operates a bewildering variety of radars from varying sources. The most modern units are six TPS-43G 3-D long range radars. These are supplemented by some older American, Chinese and British long-range radars. The TPS-43G is a large E-band system with a 278-mile (447km) range against highlevel targets and a 4MW peak power output, though normal power output is 6.7KW. These radars were acquired as the second-phase of Project CRYSTAL. Two installations operate the FPS-89/100 modified versions of the FPS-6/-20 heightfinding radars supplied under the US Military Assistance Program. These E/F band systems have a range of 217 miles (350km) and a peak power of 4.5MW. One of the initial FPS-6 radars was destroyed at Badin during the 1965 India-Pakistan war. Pakistan also operates a number of Chinese-made Type 514 radars at Skardu and Gilgit and three squadrons of British 1960s vintage Condor radars.

As regards low-level radars, in 1979-80, as the first stage of Project CRYSTAL, Pakistan purchased 45 mobile pulse Doppler radars from Siemens of Germany. These systems are of the MPDR 45/E type and are controlled by six CRCs. These are extremely capable radars and significantly enhance Pakistan's ability to detect low-level Indian intruders. However, since most of Pakistan's major targets are located so close to the Indian border, there is very little time available for the defenders to react. This problem will remain with Pakistan for the foreseeable future. The MPDR (Mobile Pulse Doppler Radar) 45/E radars are D-band systems with ranges of between 28 and 56 miles (45 and 90km). Two versions - with ranges of 28 and 37km (45 and 60km) - are fully mobile, while the 56-mile version is air transportable. In addition to the MPDR systems, Pakistan purchased a total of nine Plessey AR-1/15 radars in 1968-69. These comprised six static AR-is and three mobile AR-15s. The AR-1/15 family has a range of 93 miles (150km).

rockstarIN · Nov 28, 2010

You love to see this vs threads right? anyway of it is informative, no probs.

jha · Nov 28, 2010

Yes..an old article with vintage facts..A lot of upgradation is going on with help of israel and Russia..Not everything is made available in public..
However for Teasers- Swordfish with 1500 Km. Range in 2011..followed by a radar of much longer detection range in 5-6 years which will cost a bomb to procure..

silent hawk · Nov 28, 2010

jha said:
Yes..an old article with vintage facts..A lot of upgradation is going on with help of israel and Russia..Not everything is made available in public..
However for Teasers- Swordfish with 1500 Km. Range in 2011..followed by a radar of much longer detection range in 5-6 years which will cost a bomb to procure..

Nice but what about Integration. As mentioned in the article PAF has an Air Defence Command where all aircrafts can be monitored and controlled. This means that the PAF Chief of Air Staff has the capability to centrally control the air war.

Does the Indian Air Chief also have such a system?

jha · Nov 28, 2010

silent hawk said:
Nice but what about Integration. As mentioned in the article PAF has an Air Defence Command where all aircrafts can be monitored and controlled. This means that the PAF Chief of Air Staff has the capability to centrally control the air war.

Does the Indian Air Chief also have such a system?

Sorry..But cant provide any detail here..However keep one thing in mind we do not lag in any field especially with the kind of upgradation our armed forces are going .

rockstarIN · Nov 28, 2010

Forget about Radar ranges, here is the ranges of Indian current SAM systems.

And we are filling the gaps so quickly and shifting from point defense to missile shield defense for our airspace.

Rgds,

Capt.Popeye · Nov 28, 2010

silent hawk said:
Nice but what about Integration. As mentioned in the article PAF has an Air Defence Command where all aircrafts can be monitored and controlled. This means that the PAF Chief of Air Staff has the capability to centrally control the air war.

Does the Indian Air Chief also have such a system?

Do you mean that the PAF Chief has to/is able to sit at a central console or keyboard and push the buttons to control the air war?
That is an interesting concept.

The IAF Chief does not have to do it, he attends to more important things.
The IAF has five operational commands to command an area which is far larger than PAF has to deal with. They have their AD systems which are interlinked/integrated to each other. At the same time interconnected to the IA's AD systems as well as the CD organisation nation-wide. And there is a team of dedicated AD-tasked staff to carry that out.
Hope that helps answer your query.

Rajkumar · Nov 28, 2010

Thanks for this very informative post. I like this kinda post rather then india has 47% people under poverty line or pakistan is terror hub.
this article is old but modernizations just started so its fairly gives the picture about status of both air forces. it seems pakistani command and control has more modern radars as compared to india.
i would interested to know about e-jamming resistance of radars. what are the systems which are very prone to jamming and who has better jamming electronics. what is current ability of nato to jam these radars.

rockstarIN · Nov 28, 2010

^^ How will you Jam a ground based Radar?

In order to jam it, you need to come at least to the range of your system, which can be done thru fighter air crafts, which in turn could not carry jamming equipment of huge radars.

Regards,

Rain · Nov 28, 2010

rockstar said:
Forget about Radar ranges, here is the ranges of Indian current SAM systems.

And we are filling the gaps so quickly and shifting from point defense to missile shield defense for our airspace.

Rgds,

This image can't be true! if it is true depiction of Indian Airdefense thn I am surprised to see almost not air defense/SAM systems along China border.
This also shows how much focused Indian Defense extabishment is on Pakistan irrespective of the rhetoric tht their defense is focused on China not Pakistan!

Regarding Radar Systems i think Pakistan needs to update it Radar systems with effective Long Range Radars--PAF should be able to see any jet/missile taking off from as far as Indore/Dehli/Mumbay.

Regarding SAMs I think if Pakistan has FT2000 or other long range SAM with atleast 8 systems will be enough for our needs.

Moreover ADC center only 10 meter deep is not safe!

rockstarIN · Nov 28, 2010

Rain said:
This image can't be true! if it is true depiction of Indian Airdefense thn I am surprised to see almost not air defense/SAM systems along China border.
This also shows how much focused Indian Defense extabishment is on Pakistan irrespective of the rhetoric tht their defense is focused on China not Pakistan!

Regarding Radar Systems i think Pakistan needs to update it Radar systems with effective Long Range Radars--PAF should be able to see any jet/missile taking off from as far as Indore/Dehli/Mumbay.

Regarding SAMs I think if Pakistan has FT2000 or other long range SAM with atleast 8 systems will be enough for our needs.

Moreover ADC center only 10 meter deep is not safe!

If you look at the map closely, you can see blue dots in our north east area, which is point defense systems, aimed to defend our key assets.

Moreover, unlike the public perception, China too has hardly any bases near our borders,(but now they are developing). their main bases are at far east.

That is the reason why we are inducting Akkash missile systems massively in order to fill the gaps in north east and to replace old Pachora systems with newer systems.

Rgds,

Capt.Popeye · Nov 28, 2010

Rain said:
This image can't be true! if it is true depiction of Indian Airdefense thn I am surprised to see almost not air defense/SAM systems along China border.
This also shows how much focused Indian Defense extabishment is on Pakistan irrespective of the rhetoric tht their defense is focused on China not Pakistan!

Regarding Radar Systems i think Pakistan needs to update it Radar systems with effective Long Range Radars--PAF should be able to see any jet/missile taking off from as far as Indore/Dehli/Mumbay.

Regarding SAMs I think if Pakistan has FT2000 or other long range SAM with atleast 8 systems will be enough for our needs.

Moreover ADC center only 10 meter deep is not safe!

No, it is not very correct. It does not reflect reality- esp the current picture.

deckingraj · Nov 28, 2010

Rain said:
This image can't be true! if it is true depiction of Indian Airdefense thn I am surprised to see almost not air defense/SAM systems along China border.
This also shows how much focused Indian Defense extabishment is on Pakistan irrespective of the rhetoric tht their defense is focused on China not Pakistan!

Regarding Radar Systems i think Pakistan needs to update it Radar systems with effective Long Range Radars--PAF should be able to see any jet/missile taking off from as far as Indore/Dehli/Mumbay.

Regarding SAMs I think if Pakistan has FT2000 or other long range SAM with atleast 8 systems will be enough for our needs.

Moreover ADC center only 10 meter deep is not safe!

Do keep in mind that we were very much Pakistan centric a decade ago...most of the assets were build on the western border. However now eastern border is given its due importance....Also due to the geography there are more openings on the western border as compared to eastern....

rockstarIN · Nov 28, 2010

Moreover, here the map Chinese air fields..nothing near Indian border
http://*****************/wa/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/chinese-airfields.gif

silent hawk · Nov 28, 2010

jha said:
Sorry..But cant provide any detail here..However keep one thing in mind we do not lag in any field especially with the kind of upgradation our armed forces are going .

This is specifically why I have started this thread. In the PAF we have a preception that our automation system is superior. Time to find out the facts. Rockstar has already made some valuable contributions. Soon hopefully we shall know more.

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