PAF Vs IAF Command and Control Systems

[ice_man]

Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) was a major international bank founded in 1972 by Agha Hasan Abedi, a Pakistani financier. [1] The Bank was registered in Luxembourg with head offices in Karachi and London. Within a decade BCCI touched its peak. It operated in 78 countries, had over 400 branches, and had assets in excess of US$20 billion, making it the 7th largest private bank in the world by assets.

 

[paritosh]

Answer : Integrating voice circuits. Voice requires a latency of less than 300 ms similarly the jitter specifications are also very rigid. I have quite a lot of experience on C4I systems. After looking at the block diagram of IACCS I know exactly where India stands in this domain.

because you said so??
please share your immense knowledge with us so that we can sustain logic in this thread.

 

[paritosh]

Thanks Now I am convinced that India is behind Pakistan in C4I systems

what is that supposed to mean?this is a public forum for god's sake...brain farts do not constitue an argument!
If you happen to know something that the rest of the duniya doesn't...share it and shut them up.

 

[Nalwa]

Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) was a major international bank founded in 1972 by Agha Hasan Abedi, a Pakistani financier. [1] The Bank was registered in Luxembourg with head offices in Karachi and London. Within a decade BCCI touched its peak. It operated in 78 countries, had over 400 branches, and had assets in excess of US$20 billion, making it the 7th largest private bank in the world by assets.

You know, that wasn't very smart. You really shouldnt have quoted Wiki. If you believe in what you have posted then you'd also believe the next section in Wiki. Please read the section in bold carefully and remember it the next time to sings paeans to the Bank.

The Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) was a major international bank founded in 1972 by Agha Hasan Abedi, a Pakistani financier. [1] The Bank was registered in Luxembourg with head offices in Karachi and London. Within a decade BCCI touched its peak. It operated in 78 countries, had over 400 branches, and had assets in excess of US$20 billion, making it the 7th largest private bank in the world by assets.[2][3]

It was transformed by Pakistani ISI into "the biggest clandestine money network in history."
The US intelligence agencies used BCCI to funnel drug money to Afghan Mujahideen in their fight against Soviet invasion and to terrorists such as Nicaraguan Contras. After the decline of Soviet Empire when the US no longer needed to fund the Afghan Mujahideen, in the late 1980's BCCI became the target of a two-year undercover operation conducted by the US Customs Service. This operation concluded with a fake wedding that was attended by BCCI officers and drug dealers from around the world who had established a personal friendship and working relationship with undercover Special Agent Robert Mazur. After a six month trial in Tampa, key bank officers were convicted and received lengthy prison sentences. Bank officers began cooperating with law enforcement authorities and that cooperation caused BCCI’s many crimes to be revealed.
BCCI came under the scrutiny of regulatory bodies and intelligence agencies in the 1980s due to its perceived avoidance of falling under one regulatory banking authority, a fact that was later, after extensive investigations, proven to be false. BCCI became the focus of a massive regulatory battle in 1991 and on July 5 of that year customs and bank regulators in seven countries raided and locked down records of its branch offices.[4]

So you were saying...?

 

[lionheart1]

Frankly everyone has a limit, after watching these fanboys derail this wonderful thread with their usual B.S, i reached mine. I am sick and tired of these fanboys coming in and using their usual B.S that SU30MKI, Brahmos, Mirage 2000 are God's gift to the world and simply the best weapons platform. They cannot be defeated because they are operated by the Martian Indian Race, IAF pilots are capable of sustaining 50G's because they are Indian. This sort of B.S by Indian fanboys whom join this forum in massive numbers is honestly getting on my nerves.

GOI will indeed take the decision to strike Pakistan, but GOI and IA High Command are well aware of the fact that India does not has overwhelming superiority against Pakistan to give it a spanking in a conflict. The Americans wanted to calm India down and that is why they did sent Admiral Mullen to Pakistan to convince General Kayani to let IAF strike inside Kashmir. You know what the reply was, General Kayani showed Admiral Mullen a picture of the locked MKI and told him that if this happens again we will shoot down the plane. Nice link, but did it ever occur to you that this statement was made as an excuse to increase Pakistan's nuclear weapons capability. I am surprised you guys are even taking this statement seriously, its the same as Vice ACM Barbora saying that if proper measures are not taken IAF would loose its superiority against PAF. I like to look at the facts on the ground and if i look at the facts on the ground, Pakistan's Armed Forces are positioned quite well to defend themselves against an Indian attack. You forgot to mention the cable where the Americans feel that this Cold Start Doctrine is just a hogwash and Indians cannot pull it off. They wont attack Pakistan even if their is another terrorist attack on India.

Anyways, enough of derailing the thread. Its suffice to say that both India and Pakistan have excellent radar coverage. PAF is already a net centric warfare organization, PA and PN will also be added to the network grid.

I respect your view but i differ from your, yes pakistan have capability to defend there country (but the function of any military is to defend there country).please show me any link in any Indian has said that indian can take 50g . please provide me link for su-30 mki looked by paf, (by which plane). frankly speaking we our capability and you know what is your capability. we do what is good for us and you do what is good for you...no need to argue in the blind

 

[SQ8]

You are fighting speculation with speculation...or maybe we missed the trustworthy-non-wiki-reliable-neutral-unbiased article that said such and such happened...

So if I just lost a tooth yesterday.. din put that on facebook..
since its not there.. nobody heard about it..except me and my family members..should it be denied it ever happened..whether my tooth broke, fell off.. or even existed?..

As for the system..
Im typing excerpts from the freely available and public book I mentioned.. if that is not unbiased and "reliable" for you.. then please feel free to disagree but let those who know more about it.through both professional and personal contacts discuss what they know... we do reside in Pakistan..this is our country.. there is high probability we know about its happenings a teeny bit more than all that is on the internet.

FROM "Pakistan Air force; A new dawn".
typed word for word..without permission.

"In April 2001 ..the then CAS, the late Mushaf Ali Mir, started the indigenous upgrade of the PAF's air defense system known as special project 1. Until then it had compromised of an automated network of Siemens Low level air control systems(SILLACS) and Hughes Sector operational Control/Operational control centre(SOC/OCC) Systems.
The late Air Cdre Hamid Shigri was designated as the chief project director (CPD); but was sadly killed in a road accident in 2006. Under his direction, an indigenous solution was developed to replace and upgrade the PAF's ageing C4I network, which was eventually achieved by using commercial off the shelf (COTS) technologies,...
....The first prototype mission control center was handed over in January 2003 and pronounced ready for operation by ACM Mushaf .....The onset of network centricity led to the evolution of the General Mission control centres(GMCCs).."

This book was finalized at the end of 2008...

 

[silent hawk]

because you said so??
please share your immense knowledge with us so that we can sustain logic in this thread.

Actually I am learning that the best way to sustain logic is not to share. Sharing only makes fanboys flood decent threads with ilogical and rude posts

 

[silent hawk]

I will try to be logical and soon you shall see Indian Fanboys go amock

India has Wiki Links to all there systems. Extensive details of highly confidential systems like Space Program, Space Command and Control System, Satellites etc.

However there are no Wikilinks for active Indian C4I systems. This proves that India has no such system at present.

 

[paritosh]

So if I just lost a tooth yesterday.. din put that on facebook..
since its not there.. nobody heard about it..except me and my family members..should it be denied it ever happened..whether my tooth broke, fell off.. or even existed?..

I can never be persuasively intruiged about the well-being of your ENT..and I am certain that it would never be a matter of national and international interest and that you do not put such lame fb status messages...

As for the system..
Im typing excerpts from the freely available and public book I mentioned.. if that is not unbiased and "reliable" for you.. then please feel free to disagree but let those who know more about it.through both professional and personal contacts discuss what they know... we do reside in Pakistan..this is our country.. there is high probability we know about its happenings a teeny bit more than all that is on the internet.

FROM "Pakistan Air force; A new dawn".
typed word for word..without permission.

"In April 2001 ..the then CAS, the late Mushaf Ali Mir, started the indigenous upgrade of the PAF's air defense system known as special project 1. Until then it had compromised of an automated network of Siemens Low level air control systems(SILLACS) and Hughes Sector operational Control/Operational control centre(SOC/OCC) Systems.
The late Air Cdre Hamid Shigri was designated as the chief project director (CPD); but was sadly killed in a road accident in 2006. Under his direction, an indigenous solution was developed to replace and upgrade the PAF's ageing C4I network, which was eventually achieved by using commercial off the shelf (COTS) technologies,...
....The first prototype mission control center was handed over in January 2003 and pronounced ready for operation by ACM Mushaf .....The onset of network centricity led to the evolution of the General Mission control centres(GMCCs).."

This book was finalized at the end of 2008...

As for the system...well I admit that I am no authority as far as C4I systems of the armies of the world are concerned...but I try to analyze this and that every now and then...
your excerpt talks about the fabled upgradation...but it still wanders around vagueness...you know that comaparisions can't be made out of all that you and your compatriots have posted...
why don't we get to see a nice little block diagram...the sorts of which we have used to illustrate our point??

One more question...
We all agree in unision that Pakistan faces a bigger enemy in us....an enemy it might find difficult to contain...and hence you like brandishing your nuke option every now and then...to maintain peace as you guys put it...so why is every other superior armament not discussed???you would not have a problem with increased leverage against us would you?
if your reply would be that it is in secrecy that you guys find an edge...then it'd not make much sense...as you guys are buying off-the-shelf American and French systems...things that can be bought by friend and foe alike for the money...
so why dont you come out with clear details to thwart an attempted agression by your arch-nemesis to maintain peace?
cus everybody else seems to be doing that....even the intensivley secretive countries like Israel,Iran and China...NKorea too....

 

[Ammyy]

I will try to be logical and soon you shall see Indian Fanboys go amock

India has Wiki Links to all there systems. Extensive details of highly confidential systems like Space Program, Space Command and Control System, Satellites etc.

However there are no Wikilinks for active Indian C4I systems. This proves that India has no such system at present.

If seems like you are biggest troll in this thread

Without any back support just declare this system is batter than other

And if any one post any thing batter then this thread become informational thread for you not a vs thread ...... good logic

 

[silent hawk]

It has begun

 

[SQ8]

I can never be persuasively intruiged about the well-being of your ENT..and I am certain that it would never be a matter of national and international interest and that you do not put such lame fb status messages...


As for the system...well I admit that I am no authority as far as C4I systems of the armies of the world are concerned...but I try to analyze this and that every now and then...
your excerpt talks about the fabled upgradation...but it still wanders around vagueness...you know that comaparisions can't be made out of all that you and your compatriots have posted...
why don't we get to see a nice little block diagram...the sorts of which we have used to illustrate our point??

One more question...
We all agree in unision that Pakistan faces a bigger enemy in us....an enemy it might find difficult to contain...and hence you like brandishing your nuke option every now and then...to maintain peace as you guys put it...so why is every other superior armament not discussed???you would not have a problem with increased leverage against us would you?
if your reply would be that it is in secrecy that you guys find an edge...then it'd not make much sense...as you guys are buying off-the-shelf American and French systems...things that can be bought by friend and foe alike for the money...
so why dont you come out with clear details to thwart an attempted agression by your arch-nemesis to maintain peace?
cus everybody else seems to be doing that....even the intensivley secretive countries like Israel,Iran and China...NKorea too....

So in other words..
All Pakistani equipment is either french or American..nothing else?..nobody else sells us anything.. and we are utterly incapable of building even a needle ourselves???
No other nation.. no local system.. no licensed production..
If I am to draw a conclusion.. then Israel's Nuclear program should not even exist since they don't publicity declare any details on it... or show receipts of purchase..
That the whistle blower on the program was a complete liar and if Israel truly wanted to dominate the Arabs it should just come public with its programs?
Do you think the whole idea of our military is to constantly show "we are better" in the media?
that in turn everybody in Pakistan should go on a collective spree showing everything that they have that is better than India.. no secrets..to somehow ridicule... deride.. and keep a constant condescending attitude to Indians?..A constant fear of utter destruction should haunt all Indian planners?
That hypothetically the minute Pakistan starts on a neutron bomb program they should announce it?
MK-ULTRA should have come out instantly after all the tests were done by the CIA..
The Russians should have told the brits that they were stealing metallurgical secrets while visiting the rolls royce factory?
If that is your definition of capability..then by all means.. India is light years ahead of Pakistan...I concede defeat.
This highly "logical" argument is beyond my experience.

 

[paritosh]

I will try to be logical and soon you shall see Indian Fanboys go amock

India has Wiki Links to all there systems. Extensive details of highly confidential systems like Space Program, Space Command and Control System, Satellites etc.

However there are no Wikilinks for active Indian C4I systems. This proves that India has no such system at present.

Honestly tell me is that why you believe we lack in C4I systems because there have not been any wikileaks about them?
Do you choose to
a)accept the findings of wikileaks about all the other mentioned Indian programs?
b)believe in the complete absence of any ther research or presence of any other program not covered in the wikileaks?

you are dismissing link after link..
The block diagrams and structural illustrations posted earlier were open to discussion...
How can it be that a country running space missions from it's command centres linking and operating 100s of satellites...planning it's own local positioning system...not be able to put forth a C4I system the integral components of which are readily available..both interanationally and indigenously?
does it not seem absurd?

 

[paritosh]

So in other words..
All Pakistani equipment is either french or American..nothing else?..nobody else sells us anything.. and we are utterly incapable of building even a needle ourselves???

ok...what is the average number of tests a pakistani ballistic missile goes through before it gets inducted??
how many pakistani missiles failed a launch during it's testing?
what are the key pakistani components in jf-17?
how does a country which has never ever produced so much as a satellite launch vehicle or a re-entry probe or a super-computer dream of possessing a MIRV?
what is the Pakistani input in AL-khalid?
answer these questions...if you have similar questions about our defense porducts...both failed and otherwise...by all means ask..and i will give you a figure more precise and exact than yours....
whatever you cant answer is open for speculation...

No other nation.. no local system.. no licensed production..
If I am to draw a conclusion.. then Israel's Nuclear program should not even exist since they don't publicity declare any details on it... or show receipts of purchase..
That the whistle blower on the program was a complete liar and if Israel truly wanted to dominate the Arabs it should just come public with its programs?

You are forcing this to become off-topic...
what happens when a country tests nukes?dont you remember our case?
Israel needs whatever little foreign sympathy it can get...and isn't Israel sufficiently public about it's programs?is there any country barring Turkey that can hold Israel in the mid-east and get a decisive victory with at least all the known programs Israel already has or has embarked on...?

Do you think the whole idea of our military is to constantly show "we are better" in the media?

for a country caught in a soup like Pakistan it is...as you always potray...when you can adopt beliefs such as that your men are martially superior and natural fighters...and that each of our soldier is worth 10 of ours...I think you do...

that in turn everybody in Pakistan should go on a collective spree showing everything that they have that is better than India.. no secrets..to somehow ridicule... deride.. and keep a constant condescending attitude to Indians?..A constant fear of utter destruction should haunt all Indian planners?

You need to be fairly confident to come out saying that you have something better...but more than confident you need to put forth facts and figures....for no body buys your argument if you cant.

That hypothetically the minute Pakistan starts on a neutron bomb program they should announce it?

Pakistan's case is like Britains when it kept on bluffing about having a nuclear bomb and using it against Germany when it was being bombarded with V2 rockets...(not denying that you have nukes)
you are twisting words...announcing that you are developing something is stupid unless you dont have it sitting pretty in your lap...
once you have it...you surely need to brandish it to prevent being overrun in a fatal one on one with a bigger enemy...
dont we all remember how mushrraf talked about using the nuke option during the stand-off after the parliamentary attacks??
He being the president and the COAS did not put too much hope in the conventional nature of warfare did he??
that did bring in bad vibes from all over the world...as we had an explicit no first-use policy...
so the bewildering thing is...why does pakistan choose to keep it's better and superior tech only for the chatter and does not even produce the filmsiest of backing required for it to hold ground?while it openly seeks to use the nuke option in spite ofhaving what not?
why does it also not prove that it has a better communications and C4I system in place to deter the enemy?Every body would understand if it is all indigenous...hell you'd get points for that...cus so far there is not one thing that comes to my mind that you guys have produce which does not exist anywhere else...forget the super-duper neutron bomb...

MK-ULTRA should have come out instantly after all the tests were done by the CIA..

why do you scale-up to being in the same state as America??
the case of Pakistan is a lot different...do I need to tell you that?
pitted against a bigger enemy...you need non-measurable edges like in efficiency...measurable ones in quality of systems....
an sane person...military or otherwise would agree that it is the prevention of war that is more important than the actual fighting itself...a thousand things can go wrong...logistic failure has defeated more armies than any other form of opposition...that is the exact reason china tests A-SAT weapons...the exact reason...USA maintains a well-known anti-missile shield program...and embarked on the star wars mother of all projects...provides yeilds of all it's conventional bombs...the exact reason why the Germans...the brits...the ruskies do not shy away from their good weapon systems...
do you believe when the Iranians say that they are in advanced stages of getting themselves a 5th gen fighter???

The Russians should have told the brits that they were stealing metallurgical secrets while visiting the rolls royce factory?
If that is your definition of capability..then by all means.. India is light years ahead of Pakistan...I concede defeat.

alright...so now you bring in espionage....dude this is not going anywhere...I have liked your posts...I even posted that you should be made a moderator or something...but this is gonig in circles...
Is there nothing to prove that the Pakistani C4I system is better than Indias?

 

[Rafi]

PAF has all of its bases connected by fiber optic link, it has nodes that allow it to remain networked even if one node is taken out.