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PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

There's an Indian Twitter handle that claims Pakistan MoD got hacked and displayed documents showing the J-10C and PL-15 deal. $10.17 billion RMB (~$1.5B USD) for 20 J-10CE, 240 PL-15E, 10 spare WS-10B and a FMS and associated stores and services.

Interest rate at 4.15%, no pre-payment penalties for the loan to be paid over 11 years.

Should I post the Twitter link here?

I find it amusing that the reaction here, instead of outrage at the fact that state secrets got leaked, is either "we got a good deal" or "we got ripped off".
 
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I find it amusing that the reaction here, instead of outrage at the fact that state secrets got leaked, is either "we got a good deal" or "we got ripped off".
Cybersecurity isn't Pakistan's strong suit, from previous posts that I've seen, so I guess folks aren't surprised it happened.
 
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Cybersecurity isn't Pakistan's strong suit, from previous posts that I've seen, so I guess folks aren't surprised it happened.
Like I said. This is related to a hack from more than a year ago. It was a big issue then but it’s not really a news. There was a lot of discussion and outrage on it back then.

 
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Like I said. This is related to a hack from more than a year ago. It was a big issue then but it’s not really a news. There was a lot of discussion and outrage on it back then.


That explains why the follow up orders weren’t covered.

Either way 240 PL-15 missiles is a non-trivia amount of AAMs.
 
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Well, its hilarious "experts" here on PDF and some ridiculous "PSF" accounts on twitter use to say 36 aircrafts are ordered initially. Even though there was no official confirmation on number of aircrafts. Same people use to say that PAF will induct upto 90 aircrafts within few years lol.

Turns out, PAF bought 20 in deferred payments from PAF's budget of 2020-30.

Not to mention, the ridiculous twitter accounts claiming 5th gen fighters coming in this decade, 90+ J-10Cs and lot more.

Its always amuses me, when I saw people's wild wishes or wild analyses going upside down because they never focus the most important thing. That is "economy". Strong Economy is the king. Without it you are nothing !
 
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I find it amusing that the reaction here, instead of outrage at the fact that state secrets got leaked, is either "we got a good deal" or "we got ripped off".
Even if this is real, this document is nothing more than bureaucratic formality. MoD is a "civilian" organization and you won't find any military secrets there. For that, you'd have to dig deep into the military's own records and they do take InfoSec seriously. So, I don't consider any information in such documents binding either.
 
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$75 Million USD equivalent for each aircraft, 0.5 spare engine (or one spare engine every second aircraft) + parts, maintenance schedules and training programs + weapons is about a third the price of admittedly heavier 4.5 gen aircraft when exported.

UAE, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and India paid or order tenders near or over $200 Million USD per combined package unit of aircraft in their more recent purchases or tenders. J-10C is not a mid 2010s F-15 or latest Rafale level though but the PL-15 is better than the AIM-120C sold with those F-15s. India's Rafale package though has Rafale's best but it is just under $200M per unit if I recall.
 
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There's an Indian Twitter handle that claims Pakistan MoD got hacked and displayed documents showing the J-10C and PL-15 deal. $10.17 billion RMB (~$1.5B USD) for 20 J-10CE, 240 PL-15E, 10 spare WS-10B and a FMS and associated stores and services.

Interest rate at 4.15%, no pre-payment penalties for the loan to be paid over 11 years.

Should I post the Twitter link here?

Posted document is most certainly legitimate.

The Pakistani generals have a much more important job of upending democratic system and leaking nude photos of elderly couples in their beds than protecting state secrets.

Unfortunate reality of Pakistan.
 
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~75 mil a piece for 4.5 Gen aircraft, weapons package, spares on long term soft(ish) loan is a bad deal?

Looks like a very good deal to be honest.
...it's on a 10-year payment schedule too. In the worst-case scenario, it's low enough for the PAF to fund as long as Pakistan functionally exists. In the best-case scenario, there's a lot of vertical room to buy additional batches over the next 10-12 years.

In fact, subsequent batches would probably cost less as the first batch involves a fixed support overhead. The PAF will get to ~90 J-10CEs, but (given the economic condition), it'd be through 2035 to 2040 rather than the preferred 2030-2035 timeframe. If you look at the Mirage III/5, F-6, F-16, F-7, and JF-17 programs, the PAF has never inducted a new fighter without a long-term roadmap for 90+ units. Yes, we did have the F-104 and B-57, but those were given to the PAF on aid and, if not for 1965, the PAF would've sought more of each.

Finally, it's weird that these details were kept in the dark. They're no more revealing in scope than Peace Gate or Peace Drive F-16s. My guess: this documentation was probably in the hands of secondary people (outside of the PAF, MoD, etc) and they leaked it to the Twitter account.

It's odd that when you supposedly hack a big reservoir of info, you'd talk about the one thing that was already known to people. If I was a hacker, I'd show info about the follow-on Erieye project, the TPS-77 radars, and the PN's JCF program. Of all the things you can get, it's Project Dragon -- i.e., the thing multiple people on this forum revealed months before it happened?

So, my guess... This Project Dragon document was already in the hands of a few people (including people on this forum), and someone from among that group (not from this forum, but other people) decided to give it to this Twitter account. I'm not saying the Pak MoD is unhackable, but rather, I don't think we have a functioning MoD. The real MoD is split across GHQ, AHQ, and NHQ.

The procurement documents are likely in the hands of each of the service arms and, in turn, they choose when to disclose info to the MoD. If the MoD gets its hands on any info, then it's likely the service arms don't care about the information getting out. I'd say if anything is in MoD's hands, then the info is as good as public (and MoD usually reveals it, e.g., Khawaja Asif announced the Hangor SSP program).
 
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