PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[mdmm]

Thank you Mastan Khan for very good, true information about JF17,J10C and Su30 models.

J-10 and JF-17's are an extremely cost effective combo---price per unit as well as price per flight hour. With aesa radar equipped---PL15's and PL10's missiles---they are an extremely potent combo in the non 5th gen realm. JF 17 aircrafts have one of the fastest spool up time for the engine ( startup to ready to fly ).
A JF17 starts up at Kamra and an SU30 stars up at Srinagar at the same time---. The JF17 will be target locking at sri nagar from the air even before the SU30 took off from the ground.

MY QUESTIONS?
Are JF17 Block3 and J-10 CE capable of carrying all kind of missiles,like L-15,Meteor,(which Rafale uses), Nuclear arms,missiles etc etc ???

 

[MastanKhan]

Thank you Mastan Khan for very good, true information about JF17,J10C and Su30 models.

J-10 and JF-17's are an extremely cost effective combo---price per unit as well as price per flight hour. With aesa radar equipped---PL15's and PL10's missiles---they are an extremely potent combo in the non 5th gen realm. JF 17 aircrafts have one of the fastest spool up time for the engine ( startup to ready to fly ).
A JF17 starts up at Kamra and an SU30 stars up at Srinagar at the same time---. The JF17 will be target locking at sri nagar from the air even before the SU30 took off from the ground.

MY QUESTIONS?
Are JF17 Block3 and J-10 CE capable of carrying all kind of missiles,like L-15,Meteor,(which Rafale uses), Nuclear arms,missiles etc etc ???

Hi,

Pakistani JF17's & J10's are truly and purely Chinese centric weapons operators. To that, add pakistani weapons and possibly weapons of Turkieye.

These weapons are similar to european weapons---some are better---others are on equal capability---.

 

[Talon]

Hi,,

As great as it looks---the motorway operation is for losers---it is for a lost cause---it is a last ditch effort to save your self till someone comes to your rescue---or die fighting till the end just to have the living say " look how they died----".

With the downfall of russia---sweden won't be landing Gripens on the freeways anymore---. The russian myth is broken---.

Technology is king---have a better product in large numbers---have better killing machines---and forget about the freeways---hurt the enemy so bad----that you don't have to hide on the freeways---.

Motorway landings for following emergency purposes :
1) Low fuel
2) Primary and Secondary Runways unavailable due to either being destroyed or occupied due to traffic/other emergency aircrafts
3) Technical Emergency
4) Bad Weather.. ETC
5) Interception as well as other special missions


They are not for : Hey an enemy fighter is on my tail so I should land and save myself... If that's what you meant in your post.

 

[Sifar zero]

Motorway landings for following emergency purposes :
1) Low fuel
2) Primary and Secondary Runways unavailable due to either being destroyed or occupied due to traffic/other emergency aircrafts
3) Technical Emergency
4) Bad Weather.. ETC
5) Interception as well as other special missions


They are not for : Hey an enemy fighter is on my tail so I should land and save myself... If that's what you meant in your post.

Well they can be used in war time when the main runways are taken out e.g Ukrops Su 27 taking off from highways.

 

[ghazi52]

,..,.,

 

[TheSolution]

MY QUESTIONS?
Are JF17 Block3 and J-10 CE capable of carrying all kind of missiles,like L-15,Meteor,(which Rafale uses), Nuclear arms,missiles etc etc ???

Meteor is a European produced AAM, which I doubt we'd get access to as India has them in their stock pile and could likely prevent any sale.

They use Chinese and locally produced armaments primarily. Not sure if the Chinese would be willing to integrate foreign missiles with the jets anyway, or if PAF is interested in that.

 

[Tank131]

Thank you Mastan Khan for very good, true information about JF17,J10C and Su30 models.

J-10 and JF-17's are an extremely cost effective combo---price per unit as well as price per flight hour. With aesa radar equipped---PL15's and PL10's missiles---they are an extremely potent combo in the non 5th gen realm. JF 17 aircrafts have one of the fastest spool up time for the engine ( startup to ready to fly ).
A JF17 starts up at Kamra and an SU30 stars up at Srinagar at the same time---. The JF17 will be target locking at sri nagar from the air even before the SU30 took off from the ground.

MY QUESTIONS?
Are JF17 Block3 and J-10 CE capable of carrying all kind of missiles,like L-15,Meteor,(which Rafale uses), Nuclear arms,missiles etc etc ???

The issue is NOT capablity. The issue is integration. Any weapon COULD be carried provided the weapon is integrated with the computer and FCR. Should a costumer opt for the Leanardo Grifo E as previously considered for blk 3,then theoretically, JF-17 would have been able to carry Meteor or possibly evem AMRAAM. The European and Americans would NEVER allow their weapons to be integrated into a chinese system, not by Chinese tech, nor even Pakistani. That would require too much code sharing than would be secure/safe for them. Similar is true of China (would not allow Europeans root access to do the integration work). That was one of the reasons why JF-17 didn't get a Leonardo radar for blk 3. All its weapons are chinese, and Europe may not even be willing to se its weapons to PAF (let alone the cost to PAF to acquire them and the logistical nightmare it would create for block 2 and block 3 to use completely different weapons). Same issue arose for PN when they wanted to equip Babur class corvette with HQ-16 but radars and Missile would need integration and the Chinese refused to let the Turks do that.

Both can or will carry Pl-15 which is equivalent (if not on paper superior) to meteor. Both should carry PL-10

PL-15s in token numbers(no more than 50-60) shipped directly from PLA stock to fly with hybrid Blk-2 with AESA post Balakot.

PL-15E delivered with J-10C and to be integrated with Block-3s. Mixed signals on whether the range difference of export variant applies or not - but for all known and verified official sources and not hearsay - the PL-15E is 145km max NEZ range

Are you suggesting that post-Balakot, PN integrated some active duty block 2 with AESA radars and PL-15? If so, was is the KLJ-7A or the other radar that was on offer (LK601E)? If so then what is with the integration headaches and delays being experienced with block 3? I would think if they were integrated in 2019 that the block 3 would already be inducted and delayed so much like it has beem (which from what i can tell so far is mostly integration issues/growing pains).

 

[arslank03]

The issue is NOT capablity. The issue is integration. Any weapon COULD be carried provided the weapon is integrated with the computer and FCR. Should a costumer opt for the Leanardo Grifo E as previously considered for blk 3,then theoretically, JF-17 would have been able to carry Meteor or possibly evem AMRAAM. The European and Americans would NEVER allow their weapons to be integrated into a chinese system, not by Chinese tech, nor even Pakistani. That would require too much code sharing than would be secure/safe for them. Similar is true of China (would not allow Europeans root access to do the integration work). That was one of the reasons why JF-17 didn't get a Leonardo radar for blk 3. All its weapons are chinese, and Europe may not even be willing to se its weapons to PAF (let alone the cost to PAF to acquire them and the logistical nightmare it would create for block 2 and block 3 to use completely different weapons). Same issue arose for PN when they wanted to equip Babur class corvette with HQ-16 but radars and Missile would need integration and the Chinese refused to let the Turks do that.

Both can or will carry Pl-15 which is equivalent (if not on paper superior) to meteor. Both should carry PL-10

So, just to kill off the first point, MBDA will NOT integrate Meteor onto a non-European radar barring the F-35. India was rejected Meteor for Tejas due to Israeli Radar.

Jinnah and Babur didnt get HQ-16 because there was no space, nothing to do with integration and turks, Chinese even tried to sell Turks hq-9.

 

[Tank131]

So, just to kill off the first point, MBDA will NOT integrate Meteor onto a non-European radar barring the F-35. India was rejected Meteor for Tejas due to Israeli Radar.

Jinnah and Babur didnt get HQ-16 because there was no space, nothing to do with integration and turks, Chinese even tried to sell Turks hq-9.

Regarding the hq-16, I'll take your word for it, but selling the turks HQ-9 and allowing turks to do the integration work and integrate hq-16 code into the fire control radars are very different things. Also read that the issue was the chinese actually allowing its integration. Clearly there is space for some type of VLS though i get that the footprint for the CAMM-ER cells is far smaller those of the H/AKJ-16 the type 054A uses for HQ-16.

Regarding the first point... Arent you reinforcing my point? I said exactly that meteor could only have been carried (potentially) IF JF-17 was using a Leonardo Grifo E...and the chinese would never be allowed or themselves would never allow integration its weapons into European radars and vis a versa.

 

[arslank03]

Regarding the hq-16, I'll take your word for it, but selling the turks HQ-9 and allowing turks to do the integration work and integrate hq-16 code into the fire control radars are very different things. Also read that the issue was the chinese actually allowing its integration. Clearly there is space for some type of VLS though i get that the footprint for the CAMM-ER cells is far smaller those of the H/AKJ-16 the type 054A uses for HQ-16.

Regarding the first point... Arent you reinforcing my point? I said exactly that meteor could only have been carried (potentially) IF JF-17 was using a Leonardo Grifo E...and the chinese would never be allowed or themselves would never allow integration its weapons into European radars and vis a versa.

yes as in i was killing that point for others, not yours.

Yeah, space is very, very limited, hence why you see the current arrangement, i went over the below-deck space with an XO from one of the ships., basically there is no way to fit anything down there without lengthening, and even then, it would be tight, H/AJK-16 was too long, hence you saw the raised pedestal for it, nothing like that with GWS26.

Ironically, i think integration would be the 'easier' task, i could be completely wrong on this but since the HQ-16 does not receive midcourse guidance via TDL, rather relies on INS, you are only really telling it in which general direction to go and then finally asking it to lock onto what you illuminate, so its sort of a much 'simpler' solution vs something like CAMM which requires a 2 way datalink for midcourse guidance

 

[ghazi52]

.,.,

 

[TheSolution]

PL-15s in token numbers(no more than 50-60) shipped directly from PLA stock to fly with hybrid Blk-2 with AESA post Balakot.

PL-15E delivered with J-10C and to be integrated with Block-3s. Mixed signals on whether the range difference of export variant applies or not - but for all known and verified official sources and not hearsay - the PL-15E is 145km max NEZ range

Perhaps they don't want to make it public that the PL-15 was the PLAAF production variant, or it's marked export due to the simple fact it was intended for export?

The Chinese tend to do that with all exported arms it seems.

I don't see why they would provide it during 2019 but not now

 

[arslank03]

Perhaps they don't want to make it public that the PL-15 was the PLAAF production variant, or it's marked export due to the simple fact it was intended for export?

The Chinese tend to do that with all exported arms it seems.

I don't see why they would provide it during 2019 but not now

yeah, i dont buy it, nor do i buy this block 2 hybrid thingy stuff.

 

[TheSolution]

yeah, i dont buy it, nor do i buy this block 2 hybrid thingy stuff.

SQ8 tends to be reliable with what he claims but there's also the chance of purposeful misinformation.

But yes, I would take it with a heavy grain of salt since nothing is confirmed.

At the moment we can confirm we received the export variant of the PL-15. Anything else is hearsay.

But I'm interested in knowing if the YCL-8E radar was confirmed? It was shown briefly in a PAF video and there was talks about it a while ago

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

As great as it looks---the motorway operation is for losers---it is for a lost cause---it is a last ditch effort to save your self till someone comes to your rescue---or die fighting till the end just to have the living say " look how they died----".

Motorway Operations aren't a "lost cause" exercise. And I'm wondering why you believe so. The technological leaps the military industry has made in the past 40 years is astronomical. Even in the past 20 years' provisions of economies of scale have provided numerous force multipliers down to a single soldier.

Force dispersion is a measure used my many countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_strip The Swedes have taken this to an entirely total war level with their Bas 90 which provides close to 80+ strips that their Air Force can disperse to, rearm, and continue the fight.

The number of missiles an enemy could rain down has out-dated the traditional strategy of actual airforce bases as well as forward operating bases. As most of Pakistan's current ABs and FOBs (most of which are 1-2 runway) are WELL WITHIN range of Indian missiles AND rocket artillery from the border are you really expecting the PAF and PA to have enough CIWS or missile defenses to stop a barrage?