PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Clutch]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

At present , Dragon-10 (J10) numbers are quite modest so the impact is marginal improvement
We will have to induct 100-150 such planes to see major difference

JF-17 we have normally seen Twin BVR IN most images , in certain cases it can carry 4 Missiles , it is normally sufficient for regional patrol

• Dragon-10 (J10) is giving us 4-6 BVR missiles it serves the purpose we need it for.

2-Dragon-10 (J10) = 12 BVR missiles

3 JF-17 Thunder = 12 BVR missiles

• or Introduce Trimissile Racks

The plane count can be increased or We can induct more SAMs on ground

 

[Akasa]

For all the talk about how many BVRAAMs the J-10C can carry, keep in mind that PAF JF-17s have been sporting dual-ejector racks and I'm sure CAC will heed the feedback provided by PAF pilots on what the J-10C excels in and what it can improve on.

Now, one key capability that the J-10C lacks is standoff air-to-surface strike. China does not yet have an equivalent of the SCALP or Storm Shadow missile, so PAF would need to either integrate Ra'ad-1/2 onto the J-10C or wait for such a missile to appear. The J-10C and Rafale should be roughly comparable in the air-to-air domain, but the Rafale has a distinct advantage in air-to-surface capabilities due to its higher payload capacity, greater number of pre-existing hardpoints, and the availability of the SCALP missile.

And don't say that the YJ-83K or GB-6A are standoff missiles; they're not and the latter is more comparable to a powered JSOW than a true ALCM. The PLAAF has treated the J-10C as a pure air-to-air bird and now the ball is in Pakistan's court to turn it into a true multirole fighter like what CAC claims.

 

[Beast]

For all the talk about how many BVRAAMs the J-10C can carry, keep in mind that PAF JF-17s have been sporting dual-ejector racks and I'm sure CAC will heed the feedback provided by PAF pilots on what the J-10C excels in and what it can improve on.

Now, one key capability that the J-10C lacks is standoff air-to-surface strike. China does not yet have an equivalent of the SCALP or Storm Shadow missile, so PAF would need to either integrate Ra'ad-1/2 onto the J-10C or wait for such a missile to appear. The J-10C and Rafale should be roughly comparable in the air-to-air domain, but the Rafale has a distinct advantage in air-to-surface capabilities due to its higher payload capacity, greater number of pre-existing hardpoints, and the availability of the SCALP missile.

And don't say that the YJ-83K or GB-6A are standoff missiles; they're not and the latter is more comparable to a powered JSOW than a true ALCM. The PLAAF has treated the J-10C as a pure air-to-air bird and now the ball is in Pakistan's court to turn it into a true multirole fighter like what CAC claims.

J-10C is more heavily emphasize on air superiority. I dont think PAF is also concern about J-10C lack of stand off missiles. Multi-role is an area where Rafale did indeed excel J-10C. J-10C are bought to neutralize the threat of Rafale trying to wrestle air control from Pakistan.

PLAAF has J-16 and JH-7A to do all these strike jobs. That is why J-10C remain specialize in air superiority.

 

[applesauce]

For all the talk about how many BVRAAMs the J-10C can carry, keep in mind that PAF JF-17s have been sporting dual-ejector racks and I'm sure CAC will heed the feedback provided by PAF pilots on what the J-10C excels in and what it can improve on.

Now, one key capability that the J-10C lacks is standoff air-to-surface strike. China does not yet have an equivalent of the SCALP or Storm Shadow missile, so PAF would need to either integrate Ra'ad-1/2 onto the J-10C or wait for such a missile to appear. The J-10C and Rafale should be roughly comparable in the air-to-air domain, but the Rafale has a distinct advantage in air-to-surface capabilities due to its higher payload capacity, greater number of pre-existing hardpoints, and the availability of the SCALP missile.

And don't say that the YJ-83K or GB-6A are standoff missiles; they're not and the latter is more comparable to a powered JSOW than a true ALCM. The PLAAF has treated the J-10C as a pure air-to-air bird and now the ball is in Pakistan's court to turn it into a true multirole fighter like what CAC claims.

the j-10 doesnt carry standoff missiles. mostly because it doesnt need to. the PLAAf has flanker variants, jh-7A and H-6 in large numbers for that purpose.

however, it shouldn't be too difficult in the grand scheme of things to integrate one, like the various KH-55 variants/domestic developments of that china has or yj-12

if the jh-7A could carry it, then it shouldn't a huge issue for the j-10 to be able to as well.

 

[cssniper]

My opinion is that 4BVR missles and 2WVR missles are enough for most scenarios.
It's good for a plane like F15EX to have the ability to carry so many missles, but these extra payloads do not come with no price, they will significantly reduce the performance of the aircraft especially for a medium size fighter.
I myself is not satisfied with the design of J-10C just like many other PDF members.
Just compared to F-16 which is also a medium size fighter with single engine, it has wing-tip pylons(remember these pylons can carry BVR missles), triple-rack for LGBs, and the inner wing pylons have no problems with all kinds of payloads.
J-10A is an early design for CAC, it's not perfect compared to the American ones. J-10C inherited the design with flaws, but J-10C is a mature design, and it's deadly enough in the right hands.
For PAF, they had proved that they would defend the nation no matter what they've got, I think they will be satisfied with this one.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Do you remember the RAF flying the Typhoon with a full load out. Do you remember how much its maneouverability was affected.
A

I know several cases of our Blk 52s being beaten by another aircraft of our PAF in WVR dogfights just because their CFTs don't allow them to pull more Gs and tighter turns.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

For all the talk about how many BVRAAMs the J-10C can carry, keep in mind that PAF JF-17s have been sporting dual-ejector racks and I'm sure CAC will heed the feedback provided by PAF pilots on what the J-10C excels in and what it can improve on.

Now, one key capability that the J-10C lacks is standoff air-to-surface strike. China does not yet have an equivalent of the SCALP or Storm Shadow missile, so PAF would need to either integrate Ra'ad-1/2 onto the J-10C or wait for such a missile to appear. The J-10C and Rafale should be roughly comparable in the air-to-air domain, but the Rafale has a distinct advantage in air-to-surface capabilities due to its higher payload capacity, greater number of pre-existing hardpoints, and the availability of the SCALP missile.

And don't say that the YJ-83K or GB-6A are standoff missiles; they're not and the latter is more comparable to a powered JSOW than a true ALCM. The PLAAF has treated the J-10C as a pure air-to-air bird and now the ball is in Pakistan's court to turn it into a true multirole fighter like what CAC claims.

Pakistan has ample Ground to Ground standoff weapons options , the delivery from Fighter Jet is just one avenue for delivery. These can hit targets with error figure of 1-2 meters and that is generally , close enough range to take out considerable radius , not just the target itself.

Pakistan does not exclusively need Babur or Raad deivery from Dragon-10 (J10) , the Thunders are able to help , plus the Babur can also be launched from mobile platform

However , the delivery options are confidential info with PAF certain info is disclosed when time comes

 

[Nomad40]

@JamD another one....

 

[cssniper]

For the discussion of sensitive technologies, I think China will be ok if PAF would like to fly J10C with USAF.
It's really nothing big.
It was a little over-nevous for the US government when they requested serious restrictions for PAF's F-16. This really did not surprise us.

The pilots are proud people, PAF will surely defend their assets. And pilots from USAF while interested in J-10C, they will want to face it only in the air.

I think what's really the problem is some CIA guys...
They would be happy to pay for some intelligence from the aircraft or missle it carried, and anyone could be lack of money.
Both sides for China and Pakistan could forsee this, and they will surely be prepared. So relax my friends, let the right person to do the right thing.

 

[Deltadart]

Will you stop saying things like J-10C is not a frontline fighter for PLAAF? J-10C and J-16 are the same generation fighter. The only reason J-16 will get a longer production run is the same reason F-15EX is still getting produced. PLAAF needs a long range bomb truck and EW platform long after it has large number of stealth aircraft. There is no evidence J-16 technologies in radar and avionics is ahead of J-10C. There is a reason J-10C still does so well against J-16 in DACT. It's a great aircraft.

Now, as for letting out secrecy. It's definitely a concern for PLAAF that USAF may get a look at it. I think there are certain implicit understanding between PLAAF and PAF on what is okay and what is not okay. After all, USAF does not even let any F-16 users conduct DACT against PLAAF. Which is kind of crazy when you consider that PLAAF essentially conducts DACT with ROCAF F-16Vs on a monthly basis. I suspect that PAF conducting regular exercises with J-10C with non-NATO countries (and probably Turkey) is okay, but PLAAF would not want USAF to get an extended look at it.

J10s will be shielded from the prying eyes of those who want to know it's secrets.

 

[NA71]

Why Pakistanis cannot spell Rafale is beyond me…. Its R A F A L E.. not Rafael like the Israeli defense company or Raphael like the Italian artist or Raffall which is the name of a lottery firm.

The J-10CP is likely going to be closely guarded but based on the ridiculous theories of it being compromised for F-16Vs it seems we are gathering a tik tok level crowd of wanting to just gaslight things for fun rather than actually realizing what they are talking about.

Don't worry bro Bilawal or Maryam will be our next PM.... both have much to offer ...specially billo. Actually PPP has already said we do not need these toys....so US should wait ...we will present them juicy radar emissions for analysis.

Disease:
That's called Viral Expats Syndrome. It usually occurs when someone from Pakistan visits a well developed and rich country for the extended period of time.

Symptoms:
Allergic form everything related to Pakistan specially Pakistanis and their attitude.
All Pakistanis are all laid back persons, have nothing to do except gossips 24/7 and pulling each other's legs.
Screwed Law and Justice system in Pakistan (which is actually a correct assumption)
Those illiterate, uncivilized mob of people!
Assessing Pakistan through their current region's lens and observe if the 2 countries are closely aligned or not. If aligned then brag a lot about that and if not then screw you Pakistanis, you need to change yourself.
Try to revolutionize Pakistan in a blink of an eye and copy your current country's "far superior" system in Pakistan.
And lately there's been a pandemic in Pakistani expats of supporting PTI. And that's ok actually aren't supporting any party but wish to bring about change in regime and system. But it's just a wishful thinking.

Have been through that phase personally and have experienced each and every bit of that disease for years myself.


Cure:
And it has a simple cure. Just come and start living here. You would observe how a lot of things that wouldn't be even possible to think of can be done in Pakistan and the relaxation/liberties we experience here can't be found anywhere in those boring developed countries. Then you truly start praising the raw freedom of this land and would never want to change a bit. But to truly experience those blessings you would first have give up that damn passport/visa/nationality which alienates you from your motherland

Have personal experience ....two of my family members have these symptoms....in advance stages

 

[kursed]

Mayne not a MNA for 20-30 dollars but an entire sectarian financing network was being run with certain people bought for around $350 within LE. So a variety of people are available based on requirements.

The J-10 will remain secure, but that doesn’t mean attempts will not be made to compromise it. I’ll check in ten years to see posts and news in that regard

Hey, we can always discuss the rate a certain DGMO charged for services rendered to a foreign intelligence agency as well. And completely agreed with the point you’re making.

 

[vi-va]

the j-10 doesnt carry standoff missiles. mostly because it doesnt need to. the PLAAf has flanker variants, jh-7A and H-6 in large numbers for that purpose.

however, it shouldn't be too difficult in the grand scheme of things to integrate one, like the various KH-55 variants/domestic developments of that china has or yj-12

if the jh-7A could carry it, then it shouldn't a huge issue for the j-10 to be able to as well.
View attachment 821523

yj-12 is a big issue for J-10, too large, too heavy.

 

[Big_bud]

A question @Deino
F-35 can carry 14 BVR missiles
F-15 can carry 14 BVR missiles
F/A-18 super Hornet can carry 10 BVRs
F/A-18 Hornet can carry 8 BVRs
How many J-10 can carry only 4 ?View attachment 821310

If you buy this one... this can carry like 100 of those BVRs! So... doesn't prove anything!

Be careful though... you load too many and even these can tip over!

Moral of the story, no aircraft needs to carry 12-14 BVRs at once. + you are comparing large fighter jets payload to medium category ones.