PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Trailer23]

I'm surprised. Shouldn't our focus be PL15 or PL15E? There is a gap in the max-range between the two. Can J10C in Pakistan obtain PL15?

You've raised a very good point, and to respond - it isn't the latter.

*Confirmed Source*

 

[luciferdd]

J10C uses WS10B. Why should we pay attention to the undoubtedly WS10B? There is no doubt about it.

I'm surprised. Shouldn't our focus be PL15 or PL15E? There is a gap in the max-range between the two. Can J10C in Pakistan obtain PL15?

Surely it 's 100% PL-15E that without dual pulse engine,145+KM range PL15E is enough to deal with meteor.

 

[peagle]

@peagle the ban was


Aren't you german chinese? or Chinese ethnically in that matter

I'm not sure why I have been included in this discussion, I've never been banned.

And @Deino, I've seen vile crap written on this thread towards Pakistan and those members continue to operate.
Perhaps it is a matter of something being reported or not, or perhaps there is a line where you are given a chance but continuous crossing results in action.

Plus I'm sure you know that justice is blind, therefore there will be cases where it doesn't make sense, but then that's where you fight your case. Perhaps you are referring to those unusual cases.

I've visited other forums as a visitor, and I'm shocked how much leeway is given here to members to speak about Pakistan, given that it is a Pakistani forum, I have not seen such freedoms on other political/military forums. Not by far.

Complaining is good, but fair is fair.

 

[Titanium100]

I'm not sure why I have been included in this discussion, I've never been banned.

And @Deino, I've seen vile crap written on this thread towards Pakistan and those members continue to operate.
Perhaps it is a matter of something being reported or not, or perhaps there is a line where you are given a chance but continuous crossing results in action.

Plus I'm sure you know that justice is blind, therefore there will be cases where it doesn't make sense, but then that's where you fight your case. Perhaps you are referring to those unusual cases.

I've visited other forums as a visitor, and I'm shocked how much leeway is given here to members to speak about Pakistan, given that it is a Pakistani forum, I have not seen such freedoms on other political/military forums. Not by far.

Complaining is good, but fair is fair.

It was just a typo on my part as I had you qouted on a previous post that I have exited but someonehow things got splid over to this comment

 

[Trailer23]

Surely it 's 100% PL-15E...

Read my post (above) ☝.

It's the PL-15, and not the 'E' variant.

 

[Goenitz]

No - ZDK (and possibly JF-17)provides input back to Pakistan national Air Defense networks who can pass it onto the HQ-9 battery.

No idea where it stands today but during development the idea was that an operator in the national center could point and click to send an engage request to ANY asset(within the national grid) and secure communications would deliver the message directly to the controlling node for that asset(GCI/AEW for fighter, AD Site controller for SAMs) to carry out the task.
The latency for the 1990’s NATO system was around 180 seconds so hopefully this matches or beats it.

Thanx bro.. that 180s latency is ridiculous now but was the best at that time like from fighter to AD.

Anyway, I asked that question bcz of Chinese centric system. I think all th radars are made by the same company so perhaps that is possible such as direct link from AWACS to the AD unit. But remembering Sajjad Haider interview I think that centricity already existed through network centre.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Read my post (above) ☝.

It's the PL-15, and not the 'E' variant.

Not for now but in couple of years E variant will come as well.

 

[Air Wolf]

Not for now but in couple of years E variant will come as well.

Most probably you are under the impression that "E" is better. That's not the case. "E"xport variant's range should be less than original PL15 and as per @Trailer23 confirmation we are getting the same PL15 which is in use by PLAAF as well.

 

[Shotgunner51]

@Deino @Shotgunner51 @Beast
Has there been any reports(non opsec compromising variety) of PLAAF study on MTBO between WS-10 and AL-31 variants?

I suppose there must be continuous AECC/PLAAF studies on the subject however just like I've responded to @waz I still can't get any of these official docs/data, most observers still have to do their own homework based on "relatively" credible OSINT sources other than government releases, say news outlets, it's very natural for observers to arrive at different arguments. Like @Beast has suggested I guess WS-10 variants should perform no less than their corresponding AL-31 benchmarks, they are meant to be improved otherwise PLAAF can still use the latter, with WS-10B currently the best performing variant and in serial production for J-10/11/15/16, along with WS-10C which is likely a WS-10B adapted for J-20 compatibility (a temporary solution until WS-15 gets IOC of which timeline is yet uncertain).

 

[JawadKKhan]

J10C uses WS10B. Why should we pay attention to the undoubtedly WS10B? There is no doubt about it.

I'm surprised. Shouldn't our focus be PL15 or PL15E? There is a gap in the max-range between the two. Can J10C in Pakistan obtain PL15?

There are certain equipment in chinese arsenal which are not for export, they want to keep it for themselves to keep surprise factor for possible conflict with US. The PL-15 is their go to weapon against US air-power. Its a very long range missile, I once read US analyst calling it as a threat to their AWACS and other platforms.

As PL-15E is the export version, it should be acquired in maximum quantities. The 145 KM range is quite good already.

However, given PAF / PLAAF close proximity and given the fact PAF is procuring J-10Cs as well, I can only assume that limited PL-15s would be acquired as well (surprise factor for adversary). PAF would want longer range PL-15 for limited skirmishes.

Even if PL-15 is available to PAF. There can me lot of cost difference between the PL-15 & PL-15E as well.

Anyone has idea whats the cost of PL-15E ? The cost of Meteor is 2.28 million dollar a piece.

Edit: Cost of PL-15 can be most likely higher then F-7PGs or Mirages IIIs. We also heard ACM Sohail Aman comments about PL-15.. He said, its "very expensive" weapon. So I really do not think that PAF could only buy PL15s (even if available). It will be limited PL-15s and maximum number of PL-15Es for fullscale war stock / practice / airframe life etc.

 

[Trailer23]

Most probably you are under the impression that "E" is better. That's not the case. "E"xport variant's range should be less than original PL15 and as per @Trailer23 confirmation we are getting the same PL15 which is in use by PLAAF as well.

That is correct, the PL-15 is obviously far better OR superior to its Export Variant, the PL-15E in range.

Range (reported):
PL-15 - 200 to 300km (in use by the PLAAF)
PL-15E - 145km

@Salza - so there is no reason why PAF would want to go for the "E" variant in the not-so-distant future.

 

[The Eagle]

The real question is, why is someone still allowed to post unreliable hearsay constantly without any warning?

What even is their credibility that people follow along without question?

We are not an authoritarian platform or some sort of verification group that will allow only official details. This is an open Forum and people do say/share their opinion. However, there is a gray area of few members where they do have their say and people have choice to agree or disagree BUT WITH RESPECT. Having said that, Forum try to maintain the credibility of discussion and then moderates accordingly. There are few topics/subjects/opinions that can be allowed given the nature and backdrop of things happening already.

However, no one is influenced or enforced to share proof given the OPSEC. Questioning the credibility in attempt to fetch more detail; doesn't work in every case. There were few moments claims didn't make any sense and even many title holders lost their account as well as their titles. To reach that point where an action is required or comes a contradiction; it needs time & qualitative discussion on board to work as a deciding point. People involved in argument needs to put their knowledge, opinion and analysis before everyone either to challenge an argument or counter it or prove so & so opinion as a fake. Mere denial & such posts are not enough to doubt one's credibility. Even though, that doesn't sound plausible; the academia based arguments requires a discussion with intellect, findings & references in regard to such acquisitions.

So if anyone thinks that this board will allow only credible news/official account then I don't see any difference between ISPR/DGPR Navy or DGPR Air Force. We are an open Forum available for discussion where people put their best arguments based upon knowledge & findings or observations. What you are asking for, is a like sharing the much secret information or leak the inside info every time which directly leads to a straight ban in some cases. However, an open discussion without compromising or OPSEC, is always welcome and that's the beauty of an open Forum. From now on, instead of questioning members with an internet ID that does not justify the verification; please pay attention to the words being said and emphasis should be on the observation, analysis & findings and counter the same with intellectual based arguments.

 

[JawadKKhan]

That is correct, the PL-15 is obviously far better OR superior to its Export Variant, the PL-15E in range.

Range (reported):
PL-15 - 200 to 300km (in use by the PLAAF)
PL-15E - 145km

@Salza - so there is no reason why PAF would want to go for the "E" variant in the not-so-distant future.

There is a reason for PAF to go to E-variant. Cost & availability.
I really believe both version should be inducted. Limited Pl-15s along with massive qty of export version. Given the fact, we will need mass numbers of missiles for J-17s / J-10Cs. We got 500 Amraams for 75 F-16s, so as J-17s / J-10Cs will be more in quantity in the decade to come, we will be requiring lot of AAMs. Cost & availability will factor in.

 

[Kaleem.61]

Someone seems on the edge with the figure of (just) 25 Jets. Are they in for a surprise in 2022...

18:15~20 Very low IQ! We are not only separate but rivals as well. Just bcz we are opposite to each other.

For all our guests here....

View attachment 804816

2 Billion in your hand.

 

[serenity]

PL-15 used by PLAAF is not 300km! where is that rumor from?

PL-xx range being 300km is believable. It is a long range missile seen on J-16. It is one of many, many, many Chinese long range air to air missile projects that have also looked at extending range of PL-12 and PL-15.

PL-15 itself as photographed in public is no 300km range missile! this rumor from this forum is repeated by members who are either still not aware of it or choosing to believe PL-15 is 300km ranged.

This unknown PL-xx photographed from around 2016 or earlier is NOT PL-15.

For true long ranged missiles both USA and China have looked at ways to extend the BVR range against fighters through many techniques. Chinese first looked at multi missile carrying rockets that can be carried by H-6 or even heavy aircraft like Flanker and JH-7A but no idea if that was pursued. Probably not. USA then also explored this field and I think they prefer loyal wingman style method instead as well. Basically drone missile carrier is more effective at the job than rocket that shoots or drops already developed BVR missiles. It seems the way both airforces want to be extending the BVR range is through loyal wingman using AI command to optimize all the movement and positioning then of course both have high manufacturing capacity for such aircraft and so is preferred. As a side from that it is only these types of long range missiles that are much less effective against fighter targets at very long ranges. Drones carry some network of electronic attack too don't forget which is why that method is superior.

This is China's loyal wingman first exhibited as model indicating program existence back in 2006.

You want real long range BVR?

This is long range BVR in currently most effective form.

Do you guys notice something??


This aircraft is flying right now. The only twin seater 5th generation and not for ground attack or electronic warfare (at least not the current intention although I'm guessing they want some sort of J-20D as well).