PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[untitled]

Lets celebrate 100 Pages of Sheikh Rasheed & his deliberate spill that has led to so much interest* in so many parts of the World.

1000 pages can be easily achieved by 23rd march

 

[denel]

Does anyone know what roughly the engine overhaul interval time is for the WS-10B?
@Shotgunner51
@Deino

waz - if we are to take the AL31 as a base figure; it was 1000hrs. If any addition hrs are to be had, it is bonus. But given where the chinese engine tech is right now; i would tamper my expectation to be lower. What i had been hearing is they tend to swap out the engines regularly because of very low MTBO; that means - the big question with PAF opt for the Russian engines simply because it is a proven entity and existing relationship for RD93s?

 

[MH.Yang]

Global Security has some very outdated information as well and others are from unreputable sources too.

PL-15 is roughly 150km range as usual NATO range calculation method I am guessing. This is proven by the PL-15E export version having declared range of 145km or so. Of course all serious military nations understate their missile range and USA and China definitely both tend to understate because overstating is suicidal. Russia does a lot of overstating due to needing to sell many.

So my guess is PL-15E maybe has 170km or so range who knows maybe 200km absolute maximum depending on the country that buys PL-15E. We should remember that PL-15E is just a name holder and not actual missile. Depending on sensitivity and likelihood of war of the purchasing country and who the war would be against, PL-15 sold may change. Half is given internal systems and also half can be controlled by software to reduce or enhance range like a speed limiter on cars in some countries for example.

I do not believe PL-15 is 300km as Global Security suggests it might be. They are themselves either guessing or based on information that is guessing or misquoted and misunderstood. Possibly confused it with other PL-xx projects that have been revealed or not.

I heard the PL15E doesn't have a dual pulse engine. If that's true, the gap between PL15E and PL15 won't be too small. Of course, this also means that there is a big gap in cost.
And the dual pulse AIM260 being tested in the USA is said to have a range of 260km, and the PL15 is also a dual pulse.

 

[untitled]

. I am not claiming anything in regard to AL-31 ToT

What are the odds that Azm will be powered by the same engine as J-10? Unless of course Azm is just a rebranded FC-35

 

[MH.Yang]

I am quoting this post as a reference (not directed to @messiach ) to say that members totally in shock or surprise or even denying such with plain face without putting much in reply, should understand that not to take everything for word to word on Internet. There are always some sort of open ended statements which may be the very reason that leads to so much speculations or even call it a rumor.

Secondly, newbies totally unaware of previous discussions on different threads regarding cooperation & NGF/AZM buildup will have to go through all the pages and understand the backdrop of such a statement.

It was said before and discussed that PAC/PAF is working closely with friendly countries & the new friendship is formed as well. That is infact not easy to sum up in two lines but just look at new regional geopolitics & strategical changes. Pakistan-China-Russia & Turkiye are already if not may be, cooperating closely and have read the situation before hand about future eventualities. It was said that PAC will be working closely with partners/friends to uplift defence programs. There are lot of things happening behind closed doors.

From in-house AESA production to modern AAM of our own with the help of friends; to AZM and tech absorption are well worked out. We might not be very useful for these sort of developments given the so much lag in past and the secrecy around defence projects but it doesn't mean that nothing is happening.

Whether this ToT means a total transfer or maintenance but on other hand, why not to pay attention as what really derived from AL-31 power plant for China? As I said before and I will repeat myself in humble opinion that IF, J-10C is not the only equipment/capability coming to Pakistan. The same statement exist on this thread way before above quoted post and it was merely my observation and how I see certain things. I am taking full responsibility of these words because this is not some sort of insider news or a leak but what I really observed throughout such kind of acquisition processes from the past and an upgraded mindset with all the hard-work for modernization of Defence Production procedure and advance ourselves towards self reliance. I also mentioned before that look at how China advanced in many of defence production fields with the help of Russia but that all came after procurement and years of experience of those platforms.

We will not buy anything to merely catch a fish. The more of emphasis is on learn to how to catch the fish which includes everything from experience, knowledge, tactics to manufacturing & producing the relevant equipment. May be this is not about exact AL-31 engine and I wouldn't comment further as whatever I may know is purely for own knowledge & satisfaction to believe that we are excelling well and far ahead of an adversary can really think about.

Just look at Thunder program in it all self. Then we announced to go for 5th Gen under AZM. Look at Milgem program off the shelf purchase & Jinnah Class built in house - Look at Type 054-AP for PN and producing few locally. Just look at Augusta 90B upgradation - Look at PN acquiring Hangoor Class Subs and preparing to have in-house production as well. Why we merely disclosed the working on hypersonic CM by PN? Didn't we discuss that PAF will be having our own BVR and I say that it might be something like between PL-12 to PL-XX in future. What you think that those busy bees at AWC are just sitting idle? There is lot of progress being made in different areas and if told openly, I am sure many Pakistanis will deny those in offending manners given our mindset of past by believing that Pakistan ain't producing nothing or not even trying to self reliance in view of political myths.

Above are few examples in short for some people here about how the development may take place. I am not claiming anything in regard to AL-31 ToT but one should not limit him/herself merely to words being said in above quoted post and keep asking for proof or any sense which is more of self issue. If you are looking at an NGF after 15 years, that means you will have to stepping up the game already. It may sound ridiculous by instant reading but there might be few things not said openly.

That argument of large wingspan of Block-III is valid compare to Block-II wingspan. Then speaking of changes in rear fuselage may sound false but none of us have any clear image & all side view to compare as to how these changes taking place. For example, just look at sensor placements & then inner changes which will not be visible for anyone as of yet or unless some official speaks so. So conclusively for me, not everything is taken merely for the words about it. Keep your mind open and exhaust all the possibilities before a final say and even resorting ourselves to belittle someone having far more credit on subject than most of us. Agree to disagree and counter the arguments without questioning the personality.


You can either agree or disagree but you shouldn't be offending like that. I am really sorry but ethics & behaviour be maintained on the Forum. No one is forced to remain present here and no one is shoving any information down the throat of others. Be respectful and that's all I mean to say.

Has Pakistan considered producing SD10 by itself? Now that China has opened up the export of PL15, it should agree to sell the production line and technology of SD10. Has Pakistan considered this direction of development?

 

[SIPRA]

Lets celebrate 100 Pages of Sheikh Rasheed & his deliberate spill that has led to so much interest* in so many parts of the World.

Someone shall inform "Tully" about his popularity.

 

[untitled]

Has Pakistan considered producing SD10 by itself? Now that China has opened up the export of PL15, it should agree to sell the production line and technology of SD10.

When it comes to BVR missiles, PAF is pretty much covered for now. It's PL-10 like missiles which PAF needs

 

[luciferdd]

China has a precedent of selling its own version to Pakistan, and PL15 technology is not as sensitive as it was a few years ago. USA has begun testing AIM260.

It's hard to believe that will happen,unless PLAAF already has something new that is totally different to PL-15 from seeker to range.

 

[TheSolution]

Pakistan is one big marketing platform for China.

Imagine the international reaction to a J-10C taking out a Rafale.

 

[Shotgunner51]

What are the odds that Azm will be powered by the same engine as J-10? Unless of course Azm is just a rebranded FC-35

FC-31/J-35 is a twin medium thrust design, two WS-13E (or equivalent) are used, not WS-10.

Project AZM I'm not sure.

 

[MH.Yang]

It's hard to believe that will happen,unless PLAAF already has something new that is totally different to PL-15 from seeker to range.

This is the first time that China has sold 4G fighters in service, we need to show our strength to other potential customers as soon as possible. PL15 enables us to ensure the advertising effect, and the advantages of PL15E are not obvious.
Moreover, USA has used a dual pulse engine on AIM260. We should develop the next generation as soon as possible to regain our advantages, rather than being too conservative.

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

FHD Chinese documentary on J10C in English dubbing.

 

[Titanium100]

Project AZM I'm not sure.

Will probably end up with a Turkish engine in the nearly future is my prediction

 

[MastanKhan]

No, it only means we have yet another unconfirmed and highly unlikely rumour. Nothing more, nothing less ... but for a car-seller this is probably beyond its understanding.

More interesting however is, this all is from a person with a great record of credibility before her pause but a not-so well one after her return.

Her claims, the JF-17 Block 3 would have dramatic changes on the rear fuselage, a wing with a wider span and different aspect ration - what so far has either been proven wrong or is still not explained and no-one but her sees these changes - is a testimony to this: Claiming something that is barely believable, ignore all explanations and avoid any discussion and then sit aside and watch the fun, how the discussion erupts.

And that you believe such claims - most likely only since I and others rate them as BS - is also more than understandable. As long as you can spit BS on others you hate, it's fine, but a person, who "agrees on all accounts" that the Block 3 will use an Italian engine and fire AMRAAMs has anyway lost all credibility here.

So why should anyone care what you say... ?

Son,

To hate someone---that person has to be somebody of some significance.


You are a nobody---. Tell me one thing---what is your claim of fame on sino def or on this forum---other than count when the aircraft came into production and some pictures of aircraft---.

You have no rudimentary knowledge of weapons procurement, defense related deals or technical know how related to engineering.

Why does anyone need to satisfy your curiosity----you are not a player---you are basically a nobody---SQ8 kisses your ar-se---for reasons better know to him.

Not a single post of yours has given out any knowledgeable answer about technicalities, the making of fighter aircraft or defense deal making---or anything about defense.

You have always insulted pakistan indirectly---always claiming pakistan has no funds---pakistan will not get anything---you have always degrade pakistan on sinodef forum and yet the @WebMaster is keeping you alive on this forum.

Name one projection for Pakistan that you had made and it has come true---.

The Type 054 is about to berth at karachi port---the subs are almost ready---the J10 on the way in.

As you stated that pakistan is a 'beggar nation ' on sino def and will get nothing---pakistan got everything that it wanted.

If you had any shame in you---you would not show your face on thiss forum---.

If pakistanis and SQ8 and @WebMaster had any character in them---you would not be on this forum.

My question to you again---what do you bring to this forum that you are here in your position SPYING for information.

Is the @WebMaster a spy as well---keeping a pakistani name but running this forum to find information?

 

[Deino]

Son,

To hate someone---that person has to be somebody of some significance.


You are a nobody---. Tell me one thing---what is your claim of fame on sino def or on this forum---other than count when the aircraft came into production and some pictures of aircraft---.

You have no rudimentary knowledge of weapons procurement, defense related deals or technical know how related to engineering.

Why does anyone need to satisfy your curiosity----you are not a player---you are basically a nobody---SQ8 kisses your ar-se---for reasons better know to him.

Not a single post of yours has given out any knowledgeable answer about technicalities, the making of fighter aircraft or defense deal making---or anything about defense.

You have always insulted pakistan indirectly---always claiming pakistan has no funds---pakistan will not get anything---you have always degrade pakistan on sinodef forum and yet the @WebMaster is keeping you alive on this forum.

Name one projection for Pakistan that you had made and it has come true---.

The Type 054 is about to berth at karachi port---the subs are almost ready---the J10 on the way in.

As you stated that pakistan is a 'beggar nation ' on sino def and will get nothing---pakistan got everything that it wanted.

If you had any shame in you---you would not show your face on thiss forum---.

If pakistanis and SQ8 and @WebMaster had any character in them---you would not be on this forum.

My question to you again---what do you bring to this forum that you are here in your position SPYING for information.

Is the @WebMaster a spy as well---keeping a pakistani name but running this forum to find information?

Do you feel better now, I heard to have Tourette's syndrome is sometimes quite hard.