I didn't comment on their loyalty or patriotism I simply asked a question that what was the point of crying yourselves hoarse demanding an end to colonialism & asking the British to go back to Britain if we're going to become their loyal subjects again ?
See this depends on the person. We Nationalists have always rejected traditional thought. We refuse foreign passports, we only think about Pakistan and in the end we stand out, look like idiots and everyone tries to screw us over. I agree here with you if this applies to the ones who have taken up foreign citizenship... their kids will eventually become locals.
There is still however a chance they may want to go back, see poverty there and want to help people. The help of people like James Caan has saved the lives of thousands in refugee camps and he is a millionaire. It isn't 100% that a person who goes outside can never do anything for Pakistan.
If its economic prosperity that proved to be elusive in Pakistan & was ever present there in than one might be justified in asking what was the point of creating your own country; the British had their act together over here with a lot of economic development across the length & breadth of this country.
The British, the Canucks, Americans we do not care. We go to their countries only for the benefit of the Pakistani state. There are exceptions... yes. But I cannot come in the way of a persons freedom. I can only hope they are inspired by our Nationalism and our belief that we have a duty to Pakistan.
The build most of our public infrastructure, our bureaucracy, our entire railway system, countless barrages & the irrigation network - they invested quiet a bit to make this area developed. Their racism & their colonial mindset would have been washed away as inevitably it was & now they are a fairly civilized society expounding human dignity & rights for all & sundry.
They are not the ones we draw inspiration from. For secularists like me its Ibn Rushd and Ibni Sina. For others it might be Al Ghazali. Unfortunately 95% of the Pakistanis don't know about them. Britain and US were and are colonial powers that stole from us. India was one of the richest places on the world once. In 1700 they accounted for 23% of the worlds income which was basically proportional with their population. In 1900's Asia's share had declined to a measly (I won't qoute the figures I remember because I am not sure I remember correctly-but they are from clash of civilizations which is in my Dubai home.)
But we take what we want from them and go back. Strengthen nation and state. If not stay there, earn and spend a portion on Pakistan. Our leaders in fact encouraged this as this was a major source of funding.
Are there any bumps along the way...is there an exception to their civility ? Indeed but then again where isn't else that isn't present ? Perhaps if we had remained a part of Britain that civility could have been perpetuated & its advent hastened by many a decades ?
Perhaps.
If our lives are contingent on the promise of a good life & a good job in a stable environment then why in God's name did we fight for a separate homeland to begin with ? When we could have gotten all of that in due time as loyal subjects of the King Emperor ?
Look we cannot fight human nature. I have been fighting for the survival of Pakistani music, movies and other parts of the entertainment industry and it just does not work. In fact I missed a few chances to get the girl I liked because I did not watch bollywood movies out of pure Nationalism.
People are mostly led by personal interest. You can't stop them there. I agree it is wrong but there is little that can be done here. But lets not ignore the others who are patriots and have promised to dedicate their lives towards Pakistan. Also when people at home are so divided the only thing that will happen is when we go back we will become part of the system and practice corruption and look down our noses at other ethnic and religious groups.
Was the worth of our nation & the promise of whatever it held so cheap that we'd jump ship for greener pastures because of inconvenience in our present lives ?
Not all move because of the allure of a better life and living standards. Keep that in mind.
This isn't why nations are formed & this isn't how they are build up into something that reflects our past glories & can be the pride of posterity for ages to come !
I believe this is very emotional. But I gave you some figures in this regard. There is no reason a person living outside cannot serve the state. Our lord Zerab Salamat in fact ordered Nationalists to go abroad and find jobs. Believe me it is accounting for about 80% of the funding for our aid, schools, healthcare units everything. I am not active with those people now but I can definitely tell you, yes I am barely a Muslim and lived a lot like the goras but I will die for the Pakistani state a thousand times if necessary. I did not forget who I was and that I bleed green.
I don't understand how you cannot understand the sacrifice of some people. This thinking that they are somehow traitors is the reason for the abuse we suffer when we come back home to Pakistan. Just because I spent 4 years outside no one will even consider I spent 4 years researching and serving my nation in every other way. With exams the next day I was filling up reports and documents for the PNA. Believe me you do not know the massive amount of funding that goes from Canada to various organizations. The savings allow them to spend more for Pakistan and the value of the currency too is great.
Its amazing that on one hand the Canadians, Indians and Americans band together to beat the crap out of us just because we are Pakistanis and are trying to lobby and develop a political identity while on the other hand when we go back we receive this stuff. Other nationalists have felt it too.
Man, every time someone pulls this debate up I feel I am being insulted personally. I spent $1000-2000 on Pakistan while I myself starved and the wooden floorboards on our house creaked like it was a home from the haunted mansion. I couldn't even have thought about doing the same if I were in Pakistan. Since I am doing nothing now-just writing and researching and now searching for agents it is more logical to stay in Pakistan but otherwise if I had the power to earn I would save up and start a political movement.
What was the point of anywhere in excess of 5 million people immigrating to Pakistan & more than a million dying along the way, for millions of Indian Muslims to chant for Pakistan despite knowing that many of them won't be able to make it ?
This is over-emotional. The issue with people at home is they spend more time fighting each other on ethnic and religious basis then they want overseas Pakistanis to return. I mean I am not one of these guys and my land is my only home but think of it with their eyes. For any person personal interest comes first. They will go out and you will too, maybe when you come to know that the Rs 40,000 you earn are not enough to run the household. I mean I am in Karachi now and my family members only hate each other whether they are ethnic groups or Shias or whatever. The issue is not that they never said any of these should be killed but they cannot think with another persons eyes here. Going outside I would recommend to develop a national identity.
I know you and me may stay but it is the job of those who stay to produce a conducive environment for them to stay-it is human nature what they do. I say the same thing you say and agree with you largely IF it is in the interests of my nation. If I can earn more outside and have more savings
What does all of that sacrifice trickle down to ? Bread on the table & a penny in the pocket ?[/QUOTE]
I will tell you what in simple terms. Lets say an aircraft engineer is paid Rs 60,000 in Pakistan and $12,000 in Canada. (forget specifics or that I may be wrong about salaries. Guy in Pakistan has no savings. Spends 12,000 say on bills and rest on clothes, food and other basic items, no savings little disposable income and no discretionary income. The other guy lives comfortably, true but saves $3000 monthly. The issue is can he be convinced to spend that $ 3000 saved monthly on a school for needy children in Pakistan? If he can he is a major asset. My advise is do not abuse him with words like burger-khor when he comes to Pakistan.
If he is like @
Talon or some other person who knows very little about Pakistan he or she will return with a negative attitude to Britain and trouble her parents or refuse to go when sent to Pakistan again. If he is me, he will get angry because his nationalism is being challenged.
I siphoned of almost everything I earned from my graphic design for poor Pakistani school children without telling my sister I was earning-that is my nationalism. The Canadians tried to crush us Nationalists I said nothing. I contacted the counsul general of embassy 3 years ago with incriminating evidence of those Pakistanis framed for the toronto plot being innocent but I did not raise a word when the counsel general in Canada refused to entertain the calls of nationalists demanding him to see incriminating evidence of this countries efforts to frame innocent Pakistanis (do note if you spoke in Urdu he talked for 10 seconds. If you spoke in English and told him you were Pakistani he talked for 2 minutes)
There is no reason I can do nothing for Pakistan outside. True I don't live like Gandhi but you don't either. If I get a government position I will live in a jhopri to send a political message because then it is my duty to forsake all personal interest. This is my promise.
Now read that that ALL. Please. And lets put this debate to rest. Peace
@<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=143754" target="_blank">Marshmallow</a></u>
