My problem with Rafale, lets start with Radar

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger

do u have any idea on ew suite of pakfa??

Its going to be a beast...if the talk of a DIRCM is correct (have my doubts) then along with what it already sports it will make life even more so difficult for our cousins to the west and chini bratharan to the north. 

@Dillinger

Completely off topic, but do you remember the topic in which I was speaking with @sandy_3126 about some manufacturing issues related to gas turbines? I was meaning to post a reply to his comments but I can't for the life of me remember which thread it was under.

Same here- let me look it up...it was the kaveri thread- (something to do with Kaveri being restarted/flight qualifications on a 29er).

 

[he-man]

Its going to be a beast...if the talk of a DIRCM is correct (have my doubts) then along with what it already sports it will make life even more so difficult for our cousins to the west and chini bratharan to the north. 


Same here- let me look it up...it was the kaveri thread- (something to do with Kaveri being restarted/flight qualifications on a 29er).

dircm is definitely confirmed from pics of t-50 5th prototype
it has some ir jammer too just under the nose..............pics speculate on that

 

[Dillinger]

dircm is definitely confirmed from pics of t-50 5th prototype
it has some ir jammer too just under the nose..............pics speculate on that

Its difficult to judge from the pics and a lot of forum fundoos have marked pics with incorrect labels...but its already pretty good....the idea of the PAK-FA is different. Present a LO frontal aspect, use multiple sensors to detect and then track the bogie, degrade the bogie's ability to do the same, launch from extreme ranges and then if need be open the throttle and close in for a knife fight- its a fighter all right.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Can no one undersatnd what i am saying??

Forget about fgfa.................get pakfa instead which is same as fgfa but has less powerful engines.

Pakfa will enter serial production in 2017 at the most,,,,,and if rafale deal is signed we will get rafale delivery starting 2017.

so what do u think is better??

rafale or pakfa??

everyone knows the answer

This is pretty much all patently false info. The differences between the FGFA and PAK-FA run far deeper than purely the engine- this is so basic. The FGFA will have different avionics, sensors, weapons etc


The first RuAF PAK-FA might be delivered in 2016/17 but this won't be the final production model in any way- this will only be delivered to the RuAF by 2019/20 at the earliest.


Telling half-truths and omitting certain facts is a pretty devious way of putting across your ideas.


And simply put, the Rafale will NOT be the top-end of the IAF, is it was set to be I would partly agree with you that the IAF needed to be looking at other options but given the IAF WILL BE getting Super Sukhois and FGFAs there is no need to be as alarmist as you are being. The Rafale will do its job superbly and will be a huge boost to the IAF.

When the Rafale enters Indian service in 2016/17 the PLAAF and PAF and the region as a whole will have no answer for this awesome bird.


The credentials of their so-called 5th gen fighters are still yet to be verified but one shouldn't be expecting big things from these projects IMHO.

 

[he-man]

This is pretty much all patently false info. The differences between the FGFA and PAK-FA run far deeper than purely the engine- this is so basic. The FGFA will have different avionics, sensors, weapons etc


The first RuAF PAK-FA might be delivered in 2016/17 but this won't be the final production model in any way- this will only be delivered to the RuAF by 2019/20 at the earliest.


Telling half-truths and omitting certain facts is a pretty devious way of putting across your ideas.


And simply put, the Rafale will NOT be the top-end of the IAF, is it was set to be I would partly agree with you that the IAF needed to be looking at other options but given the IAF WILL BE getting Super Sukhois and FGFAs there is no need to be as alarmist as you are being. The Rafale will do its job superbly and will be a huge boost to the IAF.

When the Rafale enters Indian service in 2016/17 the PLAAF and PAF and the region as a whole will have no answer for this awesome bird.


The credentials of their so-called 5th gen fighters are still yet to be verified but one shouldn't be expecting big things from these projects IMHO.

it will have same sensors....................same totally

the reason is that specific fifth generation sensors are being built for it 

Its difficult to judge from the pics and a lot of forum fundoos have marked pics with incorrect labels...but its already pretty good....the idea of the PAK-FA is different. Present a LO frontal aspect, use multiple sensors to detect and then track the bogie, degrade the bogie's ability to do the same, launch from extreme ranges and then if need be open the throttle and close in for a knife fight- its a fighter all right.

all are jumping at the rcs bullshit

the thing is t-50 7 th prototype will have final shaping and we will know of stealth only after that

 

[Dillinger]

it will have same sensors....................same totally

the reason is that specific fifth generation sensors are being built for it 



all are jumping at the rcs bullshit

the thing is t-50 7 th prototype will have final shaping and we will know of stealth only after that

There is no "final shaping", the DDP of the FGFA is over and the specs frozen. No structural changes can take place beyond the DDP unless the project is to be woefully delayed. Its forum chatter that makes such claims..

 

[he-man]

the claims are from ppl in russian forum

There is no "final shaping", the DDP of the FGFA is over and the specs frozen. No structural changes can take place beyond the DDP unless the project is to be woefully delayed. Its forum chatter that makes such claims..

according to whom t-50 6 th proro will be a static rcs model and subsequently t-50 7 th will be final one

 

[Dillinger]

the claims are from ppl in russian forum

according to whom t-50 6 th proro will be a static rcs model and subsequently t-50 7 th will be final one

Static RCS models at this stage will be for full prototype far filed testing which will then lead to optimization of RAM/RAS not structural changes. As I said once the DDP is over no further changes can be made to design itself.

 

[he-man]

now u can see

Static RCS models at this stage will be for full prototype far filed testing which will then lead to optimization of RAM/RAS not structural changes. As I said once the DDP is over no further changes can be made to design itself.

that t-50 4 th proto has reinforced wings with metallic sheets for balance

similarly there are many more changes that will come...............albeit they will be very minor

 

[Dillinger]

now u can see

that t-50 4 th proto has reinforced wings with metallic sheets for balance

similarly there are many more changes that will come...............albeit they will be ve

That is hardly a design change..the sort of structural changes that people are envisioning are unlikely to materialize unless we somehow shoehorned something into the FGFA's DDP.

 

[he-man]

That is hardly a design change..the sort of structural changes that people are envisioning are unlikely to materialize unless we somehow shoehorned something into the FGFA's DDP.

yes u are right.............maybe they will make changes of a few mm...........lol

but i think tight now pakfa has no ram and we will se proper variant on t-50 7 th proto

 

[Dillinger]

yes u are right.............maybe they will make changes of a few mm...........lol

but i think tight now pakfa has no ram and we will se proper variant on t-50 7 th proto

The surface finish (ergo aesthetics of the final product) will be VERY different, that is guaranteed..as to changes well the Russians have in the past radically modified existing flankers but it is a risky proposition...lets see.

 

[he-man]

The surface finish (ergo aesthetics of the final product) will be VERY different, that is guaranteed..as to changes well the Russians have in the past radically modified existing flankers but it is a risky proposition...lets see.

this will have maximum number of sensors ever put in an aircraft for sure

 

[Dillinger]

this will have maximum number of sensors ever put in an aircraft for sure

Yes so far...I am more interested getting details on the definitive on EW suite and possible SATCOM, along with more substantial info on weapons carriage than some posters of the UShKE shoehorned into the bay...

 

[he-man]

Yes so far...I am more interested getting details on the definitive on EW suite and possible SATCOM, along with more substantial info on weapons carriage than some posters of the UShKE shoehorned into the bay...

do u have any knowledge of khibini ew suite of su-35??