My problem with Rafale, lets start with Radar

[Dillinger]

why are u asking be so much stuff

why don't u elaborate ur point on mirage 2000 and its cost??
u have provided 0 info except long sentences with very good english i must say(compliment)

I already did...last time you asked the same question wrt the Rafales I told you to look up the force structure of a certain MraF- still waiting for an answer on that- that alone will clear your doubts... 

see man there is no point in slinging mud on me

the very fact they are developing ddm ng solidifies my point....................ddm details are classified,u know it

but it is a very old technology,10 years old

The very fact proves none of your assertions- no one's slinging mud...you said you know all that stuff now I am asking you to elucidate on all that stuff.

 

[he-man]

Much more, this is what qualifies for the tag of sparse details and is info one can pick up by simply cruising through a forum. So again, what is the fundamental difference in the functionality of an AESA and an ESA then a MSA...

was i wrong in my comments??

what was wrong....tell me?

just because u know more details dosen't deem my answer wrong,,,i told basic differences 
i am commenting

I already did...last time you asked the same question wrt the Rafales I told you to look up the force structure of a certain MraF- still waiting for an answer on that- that alone will clear your doubts... 


The very fact proves none of your assertions- no one's slinging mud...you said you know all that stuff now I am asking you to elucidate on all that stuff.

on specific rafale aesa size

u are the one going off topic with technical jargon

 

[Dillinger]

was i wrong in my comments??

what was wrong....tell me?

just because u know more details dosen't deem my answer wrong,,,i told basic differences

Did I say it was an incorrect explanation, I stated that it was sparse on details and something that any remotely serious forumer would know.

 

[he-man]

@Dillinger
See u can say whatever u like,,,,,but the fact remains this deal has crossed 20 billion dollars,,,potentially 25

 

[Dillinger]

was i wrong in my comments??

what was wrong....tell me?

just because u know more details dosen't deem my answer wrong,,,i told basic differences 
i am commenting

on specific rafale aesa size

u are the one going off topic with technical jargon

The technical jargon is very much important to the topic and if you're going to debate about it then you need to be familiar with said jargon otherwise I'd have to spend a significant amount of time tying in the expanded forms and that would be a pain in the neck.

 

[he-man]

Did I say it was an incorrect explanation, I stated that it was sparse on details and something that any remotely serious forumer would know.

man i read all this stuff in detail after we clashed last time

haha

 

[Dillinger]

@Dillinger
See u can say whatever u like,,,,,but the fact remains this deal has crossed 20 billion dollars,,,potentially 25

Obviously it has, its our fault that it has...so what's the point...?

 

[he-man]

The technical jargon is very much important to the topic and if you're going to debate about it then you need to be familiar with said jargon otherwise I'd have to spend a significant amount of time tying in the expanded forms and that would be a pain in the neck.

i am up for it

as u can see,,,i don't accept defeat easily

on the point though mirage 2000 upgarde is a fraud 

Obviously it has, its our fault that it has...so what's the point...?

the point is is it worth that much ??

 

[Dillinger]

man i read all this stuff in detail after we clashed last time

haha

You got fundamental technical facts wrong then and now you're getting them wrong again...that's why I am asking you to specify the difference between a SPJ and a proper EW suite..when you do then you will have the answer you need..here's a little hint even with a SPJ the ingressing AC needs a bigger EW pod/escort jammer to infiltrate a dense ADGE- the Rafale does not. 

i am up for it

as u can see,,,i don't accept defeat easily

on the point though mirage 2000 upgarde is a fraud 


the point is is it worth that much ??

Is that so? A fraud, because it costs money..you expect them to hand it over in charity- why don't you check the prospective price tag on the MKI upgrade itself.

It is very much necessary, without said knowledge there is no way you will grasp what needs to be grasped.

 

[he-man]

can u gi

You got fundamental technical facts wrong then and now you're getting them wrong again...that's why I am asking you to specify the difference between a SPJ and a proper EW suite..when you do then you will have the answer you need..here's a little hint even with a SPJ the ingressing AC needs a bigger EW pod/escort jammer to infiltrate a dense ADGE- the Rafale does not.

where are these details??
post me a single link that elucidates ur point

yes my ew knowledge is not up to mark............... 
@Dillinger
I HAVE TRIED EVERYWHERE BUT THERE ARE NO DETAILS ON SPECTRA

pls post me a link if u have one 

You got fundamental technical facts wrong then and now you're getting them wrong again...that's why I am asking you to specify the difference between a SPJ and a proper EW suite..when you do then you will have the answer you need..here's a little hint even with a SPJ the ingressing AC needs a bigger EW pod/escort jammer to infiltrate a dense ADGE- the Rafale does not. 


Is that so? A fraud, because it costs money..you expect them to hand it over in charity- why don't you check the prospective price tag on the MKI upgrade itself.

It is very much necessary, without said knowledge there is no way you will grasp what needs to be grasped.

seriously??

are u so biased?

u are comparing mki upgrade with mirage 2000 upgrade??

this is hilarious

 

[Dillinger]

can u gi


where are these details??
post me a single link that elucidates ur point

yes my ew knowledge is not up to mark...............

I already gave you all the hint you require..ever wondered why the Rafale operate without an ASTAC pod or analogous HADF pod and without escort jammers- there in lies the answer.

As for the Mirage, what the updated mirage is meant to do is simple- be an efficient ground mover and interdictor- while the MKIs and Rafales are employed for SEAD/Precision ground strike against strategic targets and C4I nodes. The Mirage will instead hit infra, GLOCs and create general pandemonium.

 

[he-man]

@Dillinger

there is no formal quote on mki upgrade

63 mig 29 upgrade cost 950 million

now what would u say??

 

[IND151]

The pakfa of russia and then fgfa of india both are gonna be equipped with approx 1500 t/r element frontal aesa radar,,,,2 side facing aesa each with about 400 t/r modules each and 2 l-band aesas and possibly a rear facing aesa!!!

and whats being offered in rafale??

this is a super costly project and there is a reason it has been rejected everywhere it went.
We are better off with russian pakfa(before fgfa comes) than this overpriced thing

Source?????????????????

 

[he-man]

I already gave you all the hint you require..ever wondered why the Rafale operate without an ASTAC pod or analogous HADF pod and without escort jammers- there in lies the answer.

As for the Mirage, what the updated mirage is meant to do is simple- be an efficient ground mover and interdictor- while the MKIs and Rafales are employed for SEAD/Precision ground strike against strategic targets and C4I nodes. The Mirage will instead hit infra, GLOCs and create general pandemonium.

i am sorry to say but this answer is not enough
this is a statement from u and i know u cannot provide any source as none exists 

Source?????????????????

come on man

just type maks 2013 and look inthat thread

i have even posted pictures

 

[rockstarIN]

are u serious??
pakfa is like su-27(laughable)
we need to refine it(even more so)
who is gonna refine it??
russians will at our request only and shaping has been freezed,only mission computers will be diff man
hal is way way inferior than sukhoi so we can only pay money for modifications and nothing else

What I meant is the MKIsation if you do not understand the comparison, our doctrine is much different from Russian. We wanted 43 changes in the PAK FA. Also who said it will be Indian stuff in FGFA? we can add much more french, Indian, Isra el stuff into it. By the time it will be ready, our A2A long range Astra will make it to the production line.