More Propaganda: ISI behind 26/11, Indian embassy bombing

[Perceptron]

BBC iPlayer - Secret Pakistan: Backlash

and it comes again..
has somebody watched this new load of bull?

It's definitely nothing new. It's what is known and can be put together all along. The Pakistani Army has been harboring and nurturing the Taliban, which in turn has been harboring the Islamic fronts of Al Qaeda, Al Badr, LeT, and JeM among others as its principle arms. The Indian Intelligence knew this way back even before 9/11 as had the US Intelligence too. Post 9/11, the US has been in the expectation that PA might turn off its jihadist tap to quench the jihadi thirst of Taliban and Al Qaeda in particular. But it has been proved wrong over and over again that Pakistan is not its ally in the WoT. It is what is being depicted in this documentary. Hence, no surprises there.

 

[Solomon2]

...what is being said is that these outlandish accusations should be substantiated with credible evidence, otherwise they are nothing but paranoia and conspiracy theories.

What evidence can ever suffice to convince people who shut their eyes and yell, "It's all a lie! I will only look at what evils Indians/Joos/Americans are doing"?

 

[Major Sam]

cheers guys..... have a lunch break. go and eat something..........

i dont know y indians didnt feet tired may be they wana increase there patriotism by bulling on paksitan

 

[Nelson]

It seems you missed the point # 3 which I mentioned. Let me repeat it for ya..

3. Obama have to give proofs
to PDF directly, if they give
proofs to our government
behind the door then its not
fair and we don't accept it
even if our government does!

 

[Perceptron]

Actually, what is being said is pretty simple - no need to distort the issue and tie yourself in knots trying to malign Pakistan and Pakistanis - what is being said is that these outlandish accusations should be substantiated with credible evidence, otherwise they are nothing but paranoia and conspiracy theories.

Cheers!

Okay, Let me start with a simple question. Do you deny that the Airlift of Evil at Kunduz was done by ISI facilitating Al Qaeda and Taliban to locate to Pakistan ?

 

[karan.1970]

Incorrect justification for 'state sponsor of terrorism' allegations - the US did not have to believe that Pakistan was a 'state sponsor of terrorism' to conduct the operation alone, it only had to believe that someone in the Pakistani intelligence/military/government might secretly tip off OBL.

Complicity of state machinery is confirmed.. Its just difference of opinion on how deep the rabbit hole goes..The whole idea of some one in the lower ranks secretly tipping off OBL is pretty ludicrous. Since highly sensitive operations like Abbotabad are handled in a highly compartmentalized manner. If the suspicion was only on the lower ranks, the op details could have been shared with Zardari/Gilani and Kayani trio as that would have given a face save to Pakistan with a credible lower rank suspicion excuse.. Which didnt happen.. So right or wrong, the perception is that no one in Pakistan administration can be trusted.

The majority of the investment in Afghanistan is through aid, not pure business interests. Where pure business interests outside of foreign aid are primarily operating, they are doing so primarily in the natural resources sector, and on that count Pakistan has continued to receive investment from foreign companies. In fact, the foreign companies investing in Baluchistan recently filed briefs in defence of their right to mine those areas.

If 'perceptions' were keeping investment away, then we wouldn't have any investment in the mining and other sectors either.

So why is Pakistan not getting the aid/help that Afg and Iraq are getting.. Its not that Pakistan has not expressed the need for funds.. About mining etc, didnt we recently see a chinese firm backing out of a project in balochistan citing security issues as the reason..

---------- Post added at 01:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 AM ----------

BBC iPlayer - Secret Pakistan: Backlash

and it comes again..
has somebody watched this new load of bull?

pretty awesome i must say..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Okay man ISI did it! happy... now what? cry on ur pillow n take a nap!

 

[President Camacho]

I am not sure if anyone noticed the most interesting part...

Bruce Reidel: After discovering the double game of Pakistan in 2009, that resulted in direct loss of American and NATO troops, we were very close to invade Pakistan. We had already invaded two Muslim countries, we could as well invade a third one. But you cannot attack a country that holds such a large nuclear arsenal.

The point here to ponder upon is not that "the nukes saved Pakistan". The point to ponder is, why would Bruce Reidel let these words out in public. Unless they have another game plan against Pakistan, they would never say such a thing. I suppose it would do best for Pakistanis to look into other directions and dimensions where the attack may come from.

To me, the explosive nukes appear to trigger an implosion of Pakistan.

 

[53fd]

I am not sure if anyone noticed the most interesting part...

Bruce Reidel: After discovering the double game of Pakistan in 2009, that resulted in direct loss of American and NATO troops, we were very close to invade Pakistan. We had already invaded two Muslim countries, we could as well invade a third one. But you cannot attack a country that holds such a large nuclear arsenal.

The point here to ponder upon is not that "the nukes saved Pakistan". The point to ponder is, why would Bruce Reidel let these words out in public. Unless they have another game plan against Pakistan, they would never say such a thing. I suppose it would do best for Pakistanis to look into other directions and dimensions where the attack may come from.

To me, the explosive nukes appear to trigger an implosion of Pakistan.

Yes, Pakistan has truly imploded...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What evidence can ever suffice to convince people who shut their eyes and yell, "It's all a lie! I will only look at what evils Indians/Joos/Americans are doing"?

Certainly 'no credible evidence' will not suffice, which is pretty much what has been provided so far.

And please stop calling all Indians/Joos/Americans 'evil' - don't generalize and denigrate entire nations and people - though your attitude might explain why you are so willing to cling to conspiracy theories and paranoia about 'ISI/PA involvement in terrorism'.

---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 PM ----------

It seems you missed the point # 3 which I mentioned. Let me repeat it for ya..

3. Obama have to give proofs
to PDF directly, if they give
proofs to our government
behind the door then its not
fair and we don't accept it
even if our government does!

If Obama can provide so called 'proof' directly to the GoP, ISI and PA, then why can it not be made public?

If the ISI/PA are guilty of the charges, then the so called 'intelligence sources' have already been compromised, so what is preventing release of evidence to the public to back up all these wild accusations being reported on by everyone and their uncle, and attributed to US officials?

I'll tell you why and what - the fact that there is no evidence of any kind and all these allegations and 'anonymous sources' are BS. There is no other explanation.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Complicity of state machinery is confirmed.. Its just difference of opinion on how deep the rabbit hole goes..

When and how was 'complicity confirmed'? I suppose you have seen credible evidence to make such a definitive statement, in which case please share this 'credible evidence' with us so we know that you aren't yet another paranoid conspiracy nut.

The whole idea of some one in the lower ranks secretly tipping off OBL is pretty ludicrous. Since highly sensitive operations like Abbotabad are handled in a highly compartmentalized manner. If the suspicion was only on the lower ranks, the op details could have been shared with Zardari/Gilani and Kayani trio as that would have given a face save to Pakistan with a credible lower rank suspicion excuse.. Which didnt happen.. So right or wrong, the perception is that no one in Pakistan administration can be trusted.

Any actual military operation would involve 'lower ranks' from the Pakistani forces. And there is no way Kayani and Pasha would have agreed to a unilateral US military operation in the heart of Pakistan if they had been informed in advance. Given that Pakistan provided key intelligence that led to OBL as well as assisted in neutralizing hundreds of high, mid and low level AQ leaders and members, the US has yet to provide any valid justification for not involving Pakistan in the operation. If the US really was suspicious about Pakistan at that point, then the only explanations are paranoia and/or a desire to put pressure on Pakistan to change policies through not involving Pakistan in the raid and therefore denying it the opportunity to show that it was not complicit in hiding OBL.

So why is Pakistan not getting the aid/help that Afg and Iraq are getting.. Its not that Pakistan has not expressed the need for funds.. About mining etc, didnt we recently see a chinese firm backing out of a project in balochistan citing security issues as the reason..

You said it - security reasons - certainly the Chinese have no qualms about 'State sponsor of terrorism related perceptions' since they continue to provide Pakistan with sophisticated technology and weapons systems - the reason for low investment is as I said - insecurity in Pakistan.

The West is not 'rebuilding after occupation' in Pakistan - it should be obvious why there is a difference in the amount of aid pumped into Pakistan vs Iraq/Afghanistan.

Let me know what the status of aid is once NATO is completely out of Afghanistan.

pretty awesome i must say..

Same old paranoia, conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated opinion and BS, but since it seeks to malign Pakistan, of course some Indians would find it 'awesome'.

 

[Subramanian]

Everyone knows that the ISI did it,what time-pass?

But i like that India never went to war with Pakistan as it is a useless adventure as always.I would say instead they should continue to strengthen the economy and become rich and powerful.

 

[lem34]

It is well established that there is no love lost between western (or Indian) media and Pakistan. I live in the UK and am fed with a daily diatribe of anti Pakistan news. They are not even subtle about it. I have long established in my mind that when they say something is bad for Pakistan it means it’s good and vice versa.

What gives me tremendous inspiration and confidence in PA and ISI for all their faults is when I see the vitriolic propaganda and hate for these two agencies from western agents who I know do not have Pakistani interests at heart.

Some time ago I put up a thread and stated that I believed that CIA were complicit or incompetent in regards to the 9/11 atatcks on america. It was funny to see the same people who use this argument against ISI to defend CIA.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-foreign-affairs/127919-cia-incompetent-complicit.html

 

[Safriz]

Instead of making this a Charlatan on BBC,why they are not putting this matter up via Diplomatic channel,and come up with concrete proof?
ISI chief isn't too hard to approach for Hillary clinton or CIA director,if they come to Pakistan for looking into this particular matter...How will USA react if similar Documentary is filmed by PTV and aired,showing Masked men whom nobody knows,claiming that CIA made them,and supports them?
It will be branded as Anti USA propaganda and negated.
To be honest this is another type of War against Pakistan..Media war...
and the cat is now out of the bag..There is no more any trust between CIA and ISI..and the game is on...

 

[Spitfighter]

Same old paranoia, conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated opinion and BS, but since it seeks to malign Pakistan, of course some Indians would find it 'awesome'.

Alright that's all well and good, but makes you wonder why America's steadfast ally has 'suddenly' wavered in N.Waziristan don't it?

There's a reason Pakistan isn't acting against the A.T and its precisely why JuD openly holds rallies across Pakistan...

now let me guess, JuD is a charity isn't it?