More Propaganda: ISI behind 26/11, Indian embassy bombing

[53fd]

If only an amateurish BBC documentary could be accepted as credible, indisputable evidence in a court

 

[Ark-Angel]

There was telephone calls intercepted this is evidence of one kind



The conclusion was based on intercepted communications between Pakistani intelligence officers and militants who carried out the attack, the officials said, providing the clearest evidence to date that Pakistani intelligence officers are actively undermining American efforts to combat militants in the region.

Yeah yeah... hearing it since years now... America is losing in Afghanistan because ISI is supporting Afghan Talibans, and Haqqani network... wow... so now this super power is losing a war due to ISI... Then in wat sense is America a super power, they can't even defeat Pakistan's Intelligence Agency?

 

[OrionHunter]

The army chief, General Asif Nawaz, and the ISI director general, Lieutenant General Javed Nasir, participated. Nasir began by blaming the “Indo-Zionist lobby” in Washington for the changed U.S. attitude toward Pakistan and insisted that Pakistan demand evidence from the United States confirming its allegations. He argued that the jihad in Kashmir was at a critical stage and could not be disrupted. “We have been covering our tracks so far and will cover them even better in the future,” General Nasir said -"

Aw shucks! This really sucks! Especially for those who think that Pakistan is not supporting terror in Kashmir and keep harping on 'evidence'. Well, this one is straight from the horse's mouth!

But of course Gen Nasir was lying. Pakistan never supported terror against India. It's all a figment of the imagination! Why do Pakistani chiefs keep lying through their teeth? Someone should ask Gen Nasir that question!

 

[Windjammer]

Good for you .. Enjoy the privilege ... We are so green with envy. But have you not read the recent accusations and counter accusation that had gone to the level that your foreign minister said that US will lose an ally ?

Not withstanding the usual pressure rhetoric, in all essence,

Has Pakistan been sidelined ?
Has it been declared a failed or terrorist state ?
Have the GOP/Armed forces been implicated in any untoward incident ?
Has the supply of American weapons dried up ?
Have the Americans or others stopped coming to Pakistan. ?

Basically, poor innovations can not be nurtured. end of story.

 

[53fd]

Not withstanding the usual pressure rhetoric, in all essence,

Has Pakistan been sidelined ?
Has it been declared a failed or terrorist state ?
Have the GOP/Armed forces been implicated in any untoward incident ?
Has the supply of American weapons dried up ?
Have the Americans or others stopped coming to Pakistan. ?

Basically, poor innovations can not be nurtured. end of story.

Let them live in their fairyland. Pakistan has just gotten its position as a temporary UNSC member, terrorism in the country is decreasing rapidly, Pakistan is focusing on enhancing its economic & development co-operation with other countries, & the things are heading in the right direction. Let the haters hate, nothing we can do about it brother.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is a big fail on your part to ask a question and answer it and assume you know all the answers. Allow me to answer.

I answered my question per my understanding of the situation to help you along in your response and advance the discussion.

1. Pakistan is isolated politically and going forward, the world who looked at India as being paranoid with Pakistan now believes India is telling the truth, a truth that was hard to digest.

Which means what, in terms of a tangible impact on Pakistan?

2. The chief military advisor to Pak-Af region who reports directly to Obama believes that Pakistan is not an ally and it was involved in bombing the Indian embassy in Kabul.

As I pointed out, the US does not need to believe that Pakistan supported terrorist attacks in order to push out propaganda in support of punitive measures against Pakistan to force Pakistani policy shifts in favor of the US, and any actions by the US in this direction will not be impacted by India or whether Pakistan is 'guilty' or not, but by whether the US believes it can force Pakistan to change through such policies.

3. The embassy bombing led to Obama authorising a thorough investigation in to Pakistans role.

And where is the evidence implicating Pakistan from that 'thorough investigation'?

4. After Mumbai Obama authorised CIA to have boots on ground.

Mumbai occurred before Obama started in office - the shift in strategy can be easily attributed to a change in US leadership, rather than unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about the ISI being involved in the Mumbai attacks.

Just because you say it is meaningless rhetoric I am supposed to back down ? Who decides what is meaningful or what is not. When you lose an argument then such statements seem to ooze out!

Don't back down - I am just pointing out the reality of the situation - whether the 'World believes India' or not is irrelevant to Pakistan - the West will follow the US, and the US will act against Pakistan when it sees such actions benefiting US interests, and not because of India.

Read what I wrote. Perception of the world that Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorists is good enough. And India is the front runner in shaping that perception.

'Perceptions' about Indian claims mean nothing - money talks, and as long as Western business interests can make money safely, they will come. As I pointed out to Karan, the current economic slowdown is due to the insecurity domestically in Pakistan, and not because 'the world believes India'.

 

[Karachiite]

Heard ISI was also behind the birth of a child in P. Chidambaram's family. Any news on that?

 

[crimemaster_gogo]

Who will get benefit from destroying the P3s

conspiracy theorists ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Aw shucks! This really sucks! Especially for those who think that Pakistan is not supporting terror in Kashmir and keep harping on 'evidence'. Well, this one is straight from the horse's mouth!

But of course Gen Nasir was lying. Pakistan never supported terror against India. It's all a figment of the imagination! Why do Pakistani chiefs keep lying through their teeth? Someone should ask Gen Nasir that question!

Who is the source, and where does Gen Nasir accept responsibility for the Mumbai and/or Kabul attacks?

Gen. Nasir's was quite clearly referring to Pakistani support for the separatist insurgency in Disputed J&K.

"He argued that the jihad in Kashmir was at a critical stage and could not be disrupted."

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Lets break this down a bit

1. A large part of the world now believes what India has been saying for last couple of decades --- Proof is the quality and quantity of posts from political and military leadership of USA/Canada/Australia/UK and a bunch of other countries..

And the tangible impact on Pakistan from this rhetoric (whether the world believes it or is merely spouting propaganda to pressure Pakistan remains to be seen) is what exactly?

2. Is India's saying this is causing any actions by USA/NATO - No

Correct - no tangible impact on Pakistan.

3. Is the belief that Pakistan is a state sponsor of Terrorism (which has been India's stand) guiding some of the actions (some visible, some not) of USA/NATO - Yes.. case in point Pakistan excluded from Abbotabad operation and continuing drone attacks..

Incorrect justification for 'state sponsor of terrorism' allegations - the US did not have to believe that Pakistan was a 'state sponsor of terrorism' to conduct the operation alone, it only had to believe that someone in the Pakistani intelligence/military/government might secretly tip off OBL.

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that it is just due to terrorism and not because of Pakistan's perception as a sponsor of terrorism.. ?? because, Afghanistan and Iraq dont seem to have that problem in terms of foreign support...

The majority of the investment in Afghanistan is through aid, not pure business interests. Where pure business interests outside of foreign aid are primarily operating, they are doing so primarily in the natural resources sector, and on that count Pakistan has continued to receive investment from foreign companies. In fact, the foreign companies investing in Baluchistan recently filed briefs in defence of their right to mine those areas.

If 'perceptions' were keeping investment away, then we wouldn't have any investment in the mining and other sectors either.

 

[Manas]

Heard ISI was also behind the birth of a child in P. Chidambaram's family. Any news on that?

you know you can't hide behind stale jokes .

To put it civilly , ordinary Pakistanis paying heavy price for the wrong policies of the establishment. Snakes in the kept backyard to harm hostile neighbors, are biting Pakistan more than anyone else .

 

[manojb]

The majority of the world was also claiming Iraq.had WMD'S, so I see no reason to buy unsubstantiated BS without credible evidence, which, as you. Indians have admitted does not exist.

YOU remember why french fries were called freedom fries in 2003 eh?

 

[Safriz]

BBC iPlayer - Secret Pakistan: Backlash

and it comes again..
has somebody watched this new load of bull?

 

[Nelson]

Looking at the posts here, they mean this...

1. They are saying it because of US interest and not because its true.
2. It is because of their propaganda and not because of India saying it.
3. Obama have to give proofs to PDF directly, if they give proofs to our government behind the door then its not fair and we don't accept it even if our government does!
4.Nothing will happen to Pakistan because of these news, our image will not get damaged

This next one is my favorite,
5. Since Iraq's WMD could not be proved then nothing in this world can ever be proved from now on!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Looking at the posts here, they mean this...

1. They are saying it because of US interest and not because its true.
2. It is because of their propaganda and not because of India saying it.
3. Obama have to give proofs to PDF directly, if they give proofs to our government behind the door then its not fair and we don't accept it even if our government does!
4.Nothing will happen to Pakistan because of these news, our image will not get damaged

This next one is my favorite,
5. Since Iraq's WMD could not be proved then nothing in this world can ever be proved from now on!

Actually, what is being said is pretty simple - no need to distort the issue and tie yourself in knots trying to malign Pakistan and Pakistanis - what is being said is that these outlandish accusations should be substantiated with credible evidence, otherwise they are nothing but paranoia and conspiracy theories.

Cheers!