More Propaganda: ISI behind 26/11, Indian embassy bombing

[ramu]

Yes, this is the line many Indian commentators have regurgitated over the past few years, especially after Presidential visits to India, but what does it offer tangibly? Nothing really.

Sanctions or anything along those lines, against Pakistan, will not come about because the US believes the ISI perpetrated the Mumbai attacks, but because the US would see sanctions or other measures perceived to be 'punishing Pakistan' as necessary to **** Pakistani policy in support of US objectives.

This 'world believes what India has been saying' is just meaningless rhetoric.

It is a big fail on your part to ask a question and answer it and assume you know all the answers. Allow me to answer.

1. Pakistan is isolated politically and going forward, the world who looked at India as being paranoid with Pakistan now believes India is telling the truth, a truth that was hard to digest.
2. The chief military advisor to Pak-Af region who reports directly to Obama believes that Pakistan is not an ally and it was involved in bombing the Indian embassy in Kabul.
3. The embassy bombing led to Obama authorising a thorough investigation in to Pakistans role.
4. After Mumbai Obama authorised CIA to have boots on ground.

Just because you say it is meaningless rhetoric I am supposed to back down ? Who decides what is meaningful or what is not. When you lose an argument then such statements seem to ooze out!

---------- Post added at 09:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

Again OPINION.........NOT FACT

Read what I wrote. Perception of the world that Pakistan is a breeding ground for terrorists is good enough. And India is the front runner in shaping that perception.

 

[Rafi]

Tell that to the economy of Pakistan that has suffered over past few years due to Pakistan being perceived as a hot bed of terrorism... Now I cant offer any EVIDENCE to prove that there has been an impact of Pakistan's image on Pakistan's business, tourism and economy, but then the numbers are there for every one to see.....

Even after all that, the 2011 UN report says that Pakistan is considerably less poor than india. Even during the height of the WoT and floods we were making progress.

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

Even now the US is co-operating very well with us, considering all this public bluster, in recent weeks advanced weapon transfers have continued as normal, this is a pressure tactic, the US is using it's media program (around the world) to get us to go into NWA, the day after a potential operation is launched, their will be silence, the Pakistani security establishment is clearly aware.

 

[Nelson]

Yes, this is the line many Indian commentators have regurgitated over the past few years, especially after Presidential visits to India, but what does it offer tangibly? Nothing really.

Sanctions or anything along those lines, against Pakistan, will not come about because the US believes the ISI perpetrated the Mumbai attacks, but because the US would see sanctions or other measures perceived to be 'punishing Pakistan' as necessary to **** Pakistani policy in support of US objectives.

This 'world believes what India has been saying' is just meaningless rhetoric.

Do you seriously believe that nothing has happened to Pakistan?

By the way, we're not interested on sanctions and all. As long as people believe what we say and indirectly call you liars is enough. It has a huge impact on your credibility as a nation and besides they mean that you support terrorism. Its more than we expect.

 

[ramu]

What to talk.... 26/11 happend

ISI wasn't involved...



Case closed...

Then you have nothing to add. Shhhhhhh! Why dont you read the posts of people who do not think the case is closed. Afterall your opinion does not matter more than an iota to the world.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Behind the doors. You can't seriously expect to see such stuff on the internet.

Which could just as easily mean that no such evidence exists. If everyone and their uncle is making these allegations, writing articles about it, making TV shows about it, then it is fair to say that the 'cat is out of the bag' - so where is the evidence to support all this nonsensical and unsubstantiated rhetoric?

Like I said, you need to become a member of your foreign or military service to be able to have any access to such files and stuff.

Why should I become a member of anything to demand that the West/India substantiate their allegations against Pakistan? It is the West/India making these allegations, the burden of proof is upon them, they need to support their claims, or expect their claims to be called out for the trash they are.

I'll take that for yor way of saying, 'I don't know, dude!'.

Besides,

India has officially stated that the all the evidence it had has been given to Pakistan.

Pakistan has officially committed that it will give the voice samples to India.

It's Pakistan's turn now.

Correct, I do not know when the samples will be turned over to India - like many other things, cooperation with India is subject to the status of the relationship with India, and any quid pro quos either side might be looking for in return for cooperation.

However, samples or no samples, where is the Indian evidence implicating the ISI in the Mumbai attacks, and whose voice samples are being demanded, that you believe will 'implicate the ISI/PA'?

Hafiz Saeed's, Lakhvi's and a few others.

Now since you're not providing the voice samples, it is very much fair to deduce that you have something to hide.

Hafiz Saeed has dozens of speeches and interviews on record - why would India need a voice sample from Pakistan to run at least a preliminary test?

And even if the voice samples of Lakhvi match the recordings India has, how does that implicate the ISI/PA in the Mumbai attacks?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What proof have you got that India was behind it ? Nil. Does anyone believe your line ? No. Atleast China your all weather friend ? No.
With respect to 26/11 does India have enough proof ? Enough to convince ourselves. Does anyone believe our line ? Almost all who we think matter.

Instead of digressing from the topic, we can stick to the topic of 26/11 and ISI's role. Oh I forgot you make the rules. Carry on.

Great, so, to get back to the point I was making with the examples of terrorist attacks against Pakistani military targets, what proof do the US and India have that Pakistan's ISI/PA was involved in any of the attacks it is alleged to have carried out?

 

[Vimana]

Dispatches - Terror in Mumbai - Channel 4



Anyone who watches this will understand why we need the voice samples



The untold story of 2008's terrorist attack, in the words of its victims and the gunmen. The programme contains graphic images and descriptions of the atrocity which may upset some viewers. Produced and directed by award-winning filmmaker Dan Reed, Terror in Mumbai tells the story of what happened when 10 gunmen held one of the world's busiest cities hostage; killing and wounding hundreds of people while holding India's crack security forces at bay.

Featuring footage of the attacks and interviews with senior police officers and hostages, including the testimony from Kasab - the sole surviving gunman, Dispatches reveals what happened, hour by hour, from the perspective of the security forces, the terrorists, their masterminds and the victims.

Award: Bafta; current affairs. 2010

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Tell that to the economy of Pakistan that has suffered over past few years due to Pakistan being perceived as a hot bed of terrorism... Now I cant offer any EVIDENCE to prove that there has been an impact of Pakistan's image on Pakistan's business, tourism and economy, but then the numbers are there for every one to see.....

Pakistan's economy has suffered because of terrorism in Pakistan, not because of perceptions that 'the world now believes what India has been saying'.

So no, this 'world believes what India has been saying' rhetoric is meaningless - and the US will only act when the situation changes to the one I described above, and not because of 'what India says or wants'.

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

I don't see the point in providing evidence of this organization's misconduct to the organization itself as their proven record - reinforced by the words of Pakistan's own ambassador to the U.S. - is that they will deny everything but use the evidence to help obscure matters further.

That is just absurd - apparently now 'asking for evidence to support accusations/allegations' is 'obscuring the issue'.

Any sane individual would argue that choosing to believe in allegations/claims without credible evidence falls under 'paranoia and conspiracy theories', and that appears to be what you and many others intent on blaming Pakistan are doing.

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan's economy has suffered because of terrorism in Pakistan, not because of perceptions that 'the world now believes what India has been saying'.

So no, this 'world believes what India has been saying' rhetoric is meaningless - and the US will only act when the situation changes to the one I described above, and not because of 'what India says or wants'.

Lets break this down a bit

1. A large part of the world now believes what India has been saying for last couple of decades --- Proof is the quality and quantity of posts from political and military leadership of USA/Canada/Australia/UK and a bunch of other countries..

2. Is India's saying this is causing any actions by USA/NATO - No

3. Is the belief that Pakistan is a state sponsor of Terrorism (which has been India's stand) guiding some of the actions (some visible, some not) of USA/NATO - Yes.. case in point Pakistan excluded from Abbotabad operation and continuing drone attacks..

---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------

Pakistan's economy has suffered because of terrorism in Pakistan, not because of perceptions that 'the world now believes what India has been saying'.

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that it is just due to terrorism and not because of Pakistan's perception as a sponsor of terrorism.. ?? because, Afghanistan and Iraq dont seem to have that problem in terms of foreign support...

 

[Manas]

THe BBC documentary where it says ISI behind 26/11, Indian embassy bombing

 

[Rafi]

THe BBC documentary where it says ISI behind 26/11, Indian embassy bombing

So what, in the last few weeks, we have had more deliveries of advanced US weaponry - clearly many parts of the US govt are still co-operating, this is just part of the pressure for us to go in to NWA.

 

[Solomon2]

Again OPINION.........NOT FACT

......U.S. law forbade the slightest indirect assistance to terrorist states. The new sanctions would mandate the shutdown of funding from the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and other international financial institutions as well as bar bilateral trade. Designation as a state sponsor of terrorism would also mean the end of Export-Import Bank financing for projects in Pakistan. A few days after the U.S. ambassador delivered the warning, Prime Minister Sharif presided over a meeting of senior officials from his secretariat, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and the armed forces to discuss the new U.S. threat. The army chief, General Asif Nawaz, and the ISI director general, Lieutenant General Javed Nasir, participated. Nasir began by blaming the “Indo-Zionist lobby” in Washington for the changed U.S. attitude toward Pakistan and insisted that Pakistan demand evidence from the United States confirming its allegations. He argued that the jihad in Kashmir was at a critical stage and could not be disrupted. “We have been covering our tracks so far and will cover them even better in the future,” General Nasir said -"

​

Haqqani, Husain (2010-11-12). Pakistan: Between Mosque And Military (pp. 294-295). Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Kindle Edition.

 

[ramu]

So what, in the last few weeks, we have had more deliveries of advanced US weaponry - clearly many parts of the US govt are still co-operating, this is just part of the pressure for us to go in to NWA.

Good for you .. Enjoy the privilege ... We are so green with envy. But have you not read the recent accusations and counter accusation that had gone to the level that your foreign minister said that US will lose an ally ?

 

[OrionHunter]

What's the big deal? We knew this even as the terror pogrom was going on in Mumbai and said as much! Even the details about the Indian embassy bombing in Afghanistan. So, is this supposed to be some Earth shaking revelation by Bruce Riedel that we didn't know of?

Nothing to see here. Move on.....

 

[Rafi]

Good for you .. Enjoy the privilege ... We are so green with envy. But have you not read the recent accusations and counter accusation that had gone to the level that your foreign minister said that US will lose an ally ?

Accusations are one thing, indian specific advanced weaponry is another.