JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Falcon26]

H Khan was/is an idiot of the highest order...a full embodiment of over the top self-aggrandizing complacency, nah rot plaguing all institutions of Pakistan, particularly the military.

H Khan had his issues but there’s no doubt the value he brought to Pakdef. I will reconsider using such harsh rhetoric against him. We all have our flaws.

 

[JamD]

True, we wasted a lot of time in that regard

So shouldn't that be our next step for the JF-17 now, to indigenise the avionics, sensors, electronics, manufacturing, etc, so a mature local industry and supply chain can be created?

Do we have plans for this? Like a local radar etc in the JF-17 and manufacturing close to 100% of the airframe in Pakistan.

And isn't the jump to the 5th gen a wide gap for a small and new industry?

As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) has said, this is sort of looking at the issue backwards. The issue isn't JF17. It is the lack of industry. Most attempts to indigenize components will fall flat because you simply will not have the most basic of inputs and the PAF has no appetite for funding and waiting for R&D and industrial development in those things. Industrialization is a long road built through decades of sound economic policy - it is much bigger than defence programs.

 

[SaadH]

H Khan had his issues but there’s no doubt the value he brought to Pakdef. I will reconsider using such harsh rhetoric against him. We all have our flaws.

A lot of "value" he brought was all delusional BS similar to 1 Pakistani Mard-e-Mujahid = 10 ugly small statured hindus.

 

[araz]

A lot of "value" he brought was all delusional BS similar to 1 Pakistani Mard-e-Mujahid = 10 ugly small statured hindus.

Can we please leave him out of discussions please. May Allah give us all hidaya and make our lives subservient to HIM. May Allah forgive all of our shortcomings. Ameen.
A

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

True Multirole capability

 

[TheSolution]

I can name multiple contributions to the JF-17 project that the Chinese had not even thought of and ended up incorporating in the J-10B program

If you could share some that would be nice

 

[SQ8]

If you could share some that would be nice

PAF personnel spent 15 years in detachments of varying sizes - peaking in the mid-2000s to 2015
Both actively designing and/or constantly refining specs for
- Control Laws
- Cockpit ergonomics
- CFD design
- Sensor Fusion

 

[TheSolution]

PAF personnel spent 15 years in detachments of varying sizes - peaking in the mid-2000s to 2015
Both actively designing and/or constantly refining specs for
- Control Laws
- Cockpit ergonomics
- CFD design
- Sensor Fusion

Are our pilots confident with the JF-17s performance so far? And how does it compare in reliability to the F-16s we operate?

 

[Inception-06]

which fb page ??

He is/had writing for Uk warship magazine till last year, you can finde is profile in LinkedIn.

Haris Khan​

COO at Sabre Security & Defense Consultation Group LLC​

Sabre Security & Defense Consultation Group LLC American Military University​

“Warship Int Fleet Review Magazine”​

 

[SQ8]

Are our pilots confident with the JF-17s performance so far? And how does it compare in reliability to the F-16s we operate?

In terms of performance and avionics it is considered fairly satisfactory with some elements(KLJ-7) performing better than expected against what is now verified real world scenarios.

It is fairly reliable but most importantly - barring the engine all the spares are available to be manufactured in house or easy access so it is treated as the true workhorse for it all.

There are no worries(relatively speaking) about airframe usage and so JF-17 squadrons have a more relaxed(again, relatively speaking) view of accumulating real vs simulated hours.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

As @Bilal Khan (Quwa) has said, this is sort of looking at the issue backwards. The issue isn't JF17. It is the lack of industry. Most attempts to indigenize components will fall flat because you simply will not have the most basic of inputs and the PAF has no appetite for funding and waiting for R&D and industrial development in those things. Industrialization is a long road built through decades of sound economic policy - it is much bigger than defence programs.

Exactly. While our defence planners didn't help the situation, the fault here does rest with our politicians -- specifically, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.

He killed our private industrial sector just at the moment when it was bearing real fruits. I'm sure had this sector been allowed to operate freely, they would've eventually entered the defence industry by investing in critical inputs. In a security-oriented state like Pakistan, that's where the money was.

Imagine carrying out educational/talent-building work in the 1980s and, by the 1990s, starting broad/high-level research. By the 2000s, you have some foundational IP across these key areas to start real projects. By the 2010s, the PAF could ask the domestic industry to come up with products and, by 2020, we could genuinely start moving towards NGFA fighter development. We could've matched, if not exceeded, Turkey in this regard by now.

But alas, our military and political leaders come from the same stock of entitled babus. While ZAB's policies nixed the private sector, someone's got to hold the bureaucracy and armed forces accountable for letting it happen. What, the line wasn't "crossable" in 1971 or through the 1970s, but it was by 1979? That's the BS that has hurt our country up to this point.

 

[siegecrossbow]

In terms of performance and avionics it is considered fairly satisfactory with some elements(KLJ-7) performing better than expected against what is now verified real world scenarios.

It is fairly reliable but most importantly - barring the engine all the spares are available to be manufactured in house or easy access so it is treated as the true workhorse for it all.

There are no worries(relatively speaking) about airframe usage and so JF-17 squadrons have a more relaxed(again, relatively speaking) view of accumulating real vs simulated hours.

Is this referring to operations during/post Swift Retort?

 

[SQ8]

Is this referring to operations during/post Swift Retort?

Yes -
In fact the Indians tried something VERY similar to this

But the KLJ-7 went right ahead
“I spy with my little returns a M2k hiding behind a B737” and locked it up.

 

[TNT]

There was in house contribution but the question is what industry was it focused on?
The problem isn’t just current projects - in Pakistani culture Human Resources are considered disposable and the assumption is that copy paste Engineer B can take over work by Engineer A easily and continue at the same level.

Knowledge base is transferred only by select “celebrities” in the industry and the rest are human cogs. The result is the talent never nurtures and leaves taking with it the capability to innovate.

Very well said, i personally know two guys now working in Lockheed martin, they used to work at air weapons complex. They were really talented engineers and it broke my heart the way awc treated them and let them go. I doubt they will ever even imagine working again in Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

Very well said, i personally know two guys now working in Lockheed martin, they used to work at air weapons complex. They were really talented engineers and it broke my heart the way awc treated them and let them go. I doubt they will ever even imagine working again in Pakistan.

Same here, and hundreds if not thousands of people who will never ever want to work for Pakistani employers especially Faujis ever again