JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[SQ8]

It is indeed add a punch to JFT if news is true, no doubt about that. It is a great addition indeed.

It will rather be used against stationary land targets such as radar stations etc than moving sea targets which need greater accuracy. Diffcult to intecept since it is launched from air and the tragectory is different.

But it is not a game changer. Can't compare with Brahmos since it si quite different from this weapon system.

But, it is not a 'game changer'

Not in the traditional meaning, but as a stand-off weapon that is difficult to intercept and gives a higher guarantee of a hit. It puts pressure on the Indian ADGE. Given that the aircraft that is to equip a large section of the PAF , it does change the equation to a certain extent.

After all, Brahmos enjoyed a certain edge over any system employed particularly due to its high speed which made it difficult for SAM's or AAA to bring it down. Here is a weapon that balances that ability out.

However, unlike the Brahmos this weapon has less growth capability beyond its current form. Unless the Chinese can come up with a sea launched version. Its destined to remain a stand-off weapon that will have a restricted range and possibly restricted launch parameters.

 

[SBD-3]

If somebody thinks MAR-1 is the one, think again

 

[farhan_9909]

we should have a dedicated no spam thread just for jft weapons package

the only short coming of mar 1 i find is the speed
What is the speed of this Chinese anti radiation missile

 

[Contrarian]

After all, Brahmos enjoyed a certain edge over any system employed particularly due to its high speed which made it difficult for SAM's or AAA to bring it down. Here is a weapon that balances that ability out.

However, unlike the Brahmos this weapon has less growth capability beyond its current form. Unless the Chinese can come up with a sea launched version. Its destined to remain a stand-off weapon that will have a restricted range and possibly restricted launch parameters.

For a variety of reasons, it doesnt have the high kill probability that BrahMos does.
For starters, its not a CM. It has limited end game maneuvering. One of the reasons BrahMos would be expected to be effective is that it is sea skimming and the end game maneuvers are not fixed. That makes the probability of pinning down its route harder and thus harder to engage by point defence systems.

No such problem with this missile. The terminal maneuvers are known and limited. That makes interception much easier even at the end game.

 

[SQ8]

For a variety of reasons, it doesnt have the high kill probability that BrahMos does.
For starters, its not a CM. It has limited end game maneuvering. One of the reasons BrahMos would be expected to be effective is that it is sea skimming and the end game maneuvers are not fixed. That makes the probability of pinning down its route harder and thus harder to engage by point defence systems.

No such problem with this missile. The terminal maneuvers are known and limited. That makes interception much easier even at the end game.

Too early to make a comment on that. After all, we are all basing our assumptions that it cannot be a CM because it goes hypersonic. And that that. Similar comments can be said of the Shaurya then.. that its inaccurate or otherwise due to the fact that its not a CM but a Quasi-BM.

All we have to go upon are statements that list it capable of flying in the atmosphere and etc. How can you pass judgement on what its capabilities are just based on just a look on the model displayed. After all, the Brahmos would seem at first sight as a glorified Ram-jet with an explosive.
Its not until you see it launch or the details come out(as they always do with Indian weapons) that you realize its true capability.
Are you sure you are objective right now?

 

[Safriz]

 

[rockstarIN]

Not in the traditional meaning, but as a stand-off weapon that is difficult to intercept and gives a higher guarantee of a hit. It puts pressure on the Indian ADGE. Given that the aircraft that is to equip a large section of the PAF , it does change the equation to a certain extent.

After all, Brahmos enjoyed a certain edge over any system employed particularly due to its high speed which made it difficult for SAM's or AAA to bring it down. Here is a weapon that balances that ability out.

However, unlike the Brahmos this weapon has less growth capability beyond its current form. Unless the Chinese can come up with a sea launched version. Its destined to remain a stand-off weapon that will have a restricted range and possibly restricted launch parameters.

Well, the days of unguided rockets and other 3rd gen stuff is over now in south asia. Most of the air crafts in S. Asia to get such capability today or tomorrow.

 

[Contrarian]

Too early to make a comment on that. After all, we are all basing our assumptions that it cannot be a CM because it goes hypersonic. And that that. Similar comments can be said of the Shaurya then.. that its inaccurate or otherwise due to the fact that its not a CM but a Quasi-BM.

All we have to go upon are statements that list it capable of flying in the atmosphere and etc. How can you pass judgement on what its capabilities are just based on just a look on the model displayed. After all, the Brahmos would seem at first sight as a glorified Ram-jet with an explosive.
Its not until you see it launch or the details come out(as they always do with Indian weapons) that you realize its true capability.
Are you sure you are objective right now?

Shaurya is not a CM. It is a Quasi BM. Accuracy in such cases are rather expected to be less than that of say BrahMos.

But i am not basing my assumption on photographs but the articles contributed by members here and particularly Jane's report. I am not saying that it is not a CM because its hypersonic. I am saying that because SAM technology has evolved to the point that unless the CM's are sea level/low level or preferably TERCOM they stand a rather low chance to breaking through.

From the reports posted here, it does appear that it is a straight up high velocity missile with a terminal dive that pushes it to over Mach 4. The CEP hardly matters here. What matters is the probability of being intercepted. It appears to be good only on massed use or mixed use again only in a volley as individually it doesnt seem to be all that great.

The big question then lies - will PAF be able to utilize this. Will they be able to put up such massed strikes to overwhelm Indian air defences -including that of a CBG- say maybe after 2-4 days of war?

 

[SQ8]

Shaurya is not a CM. It is a Quasi BM. Accuracy in such cases are rather expected to be less than that of say BrahMos.

But i am not basing my assumption on photographs but the articles contributed by members here and particularly Jane's report. I am not saying that it is not a CM because its hypersonic. I am saying that because SAM technology has evolved to the point that unless the CM's are sea level/low level or preferably TERCOM they stand a rather low chance to breaking through.

From the reports posted here, it does appear that it is a straight up high velocity missile with a terminal dive that pushes it to over Mach 4. The CEP hardly matters here. What matters is the probability of being intercepted. It appears to be good only on massed use or mixed use again only in a volley as individually it doesnt seem to be all that great.

The big question then lies - will PAF be able to utilize this. Will they be able to put up such massed strikes to overwhelm Indian air defences -including that of a CBG- say maybe after 2-4 days of war?

Which are fairly sketchy to say the least and definitely not to base any conclusions upon.
I say it not out of bravado, but out of experience. Lets wait for further information, there is usually stuff that trickles out.

 

[Donatello]

Shaurya is not a CM. It is a Quasi BM. Accuracy in such cases are rather expected to be less than that of say BrahMos.

But i am not basing my assumption on photographs but the articles contributed by members here and particularly Jane's report. I am not saying that it is not a CM because its hypersonic. I am saying that because SAM technology has evolved to the point that unless the CM's are sea level/low level or preferably TERCOM they stand a rather low chance to breaking through.

From the reports posted here, it does appear that it is a straight up high velocity missile with a terminal dive that pushes it to over Mach 4. The CEP hardly matters here. What matters is the probability of being intercepted. It appears to be good only on massed use or mixed use again only in a volley as individually it doesnt seem to be all that great.

The big question then lies - will PAF be able to utilize this. Will they be able to put up such massed strikes to overwhelm Indian air defences -including that of a CBG- say maybe after 2-4 days of war?

Jesus Christ, Wallah!

Why does everything have to be compared with Brahmos? Indians cannot digest the fact that PAF has access to supersonic AGMs? Seriously, grow the heck up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Safriz]

Raytheon restarts Production of Maverick....with better electronics...

Similarly Chinese have revamped and older Rocket with Modern electronics...

Nothing unusual here..

 

[Safriz]

some calculations here..
Warhead size same as many other specs is unknown,but probably 100-150 KG

Starting Mass 900 KG...
Say fuel on board is 400KG,then at maximum range mass on impact will be 500KG?
500KG X 1872m/s (@mach 5.5) = 875716961 Joules

The total kinetic energy on Impact converted into equivalent energy Released by TNT explosion come as 200 KG of Equivalent explosive energy on Impact without Warhead..

Now add Warhead to equation..

Total Explosive power 200KG + 150KG = 350KG

How much damage an Explosion of 350KG of Explosives can do to a ship or a ground target?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Enough to make it indigestable for many already rolling on the coals............

some calculations here..
Warhead size same as many other specs is unknown,but probably 100-150 KG

Starting Mass 900 KG...
Say fuel on board is 400KG,then at maximum range mass on impact will be 500KG?
500KG X 1872m/s (@mach 5.5) = 875716961 Joules

The total kinetic energy on Impact converted into equivalent energy Released by TNT explosion come as 200 KG of Equivalent explosive energy on Impact without Warhead..

Now add Warhead to equation..

Total Explosive power 200KG + 150KG = 350KG

How much damage an Explosion of 350KG of Explosives can do to a ship or a ground target?

Are there any test videos for this baby? Any possibility PN might have tested this weapon in their recently concluded exercise

 

[Edevelop]

JF-17 may be a bad plane in terms of performance in the air lacking speed and TVC, however, the avionics package along with weapon systems on board makes it look extremely lethal !

 

[sancho]

My point here is simple, do you think will it be suitable for India to field carrier group against Pakistan

Yes, just as I explained it, because it will be the best option to provide a sea blockade of Pakistani ports, but before that there will be strikes to destroy costal air bases, defence and of course PN assests.


As far as carrier is concerned, if it is protected by the layers of naval assets in waters and air, what stops these JFs to target escorts from standoff distances.

The air defence of course, as Contrarian tried to explain, having a missile is one point, getting into launch range another, since the fighter will be detected and engaged long before that. That's why I said, the safer and more likey option is to use it against land based targets, because these can be attacked even from Pakistani air space, without the need to avoid Indian defence first. Not to mention that the missiles is not useful against big and heavy armored target as a carrier, as some Chinese members already explained.
Forget the hype about this missile for a moment an think it through please, we know that JF 17 has already integrated C-802 anti ship missiles with way longer range and even bigger warheads. Do you really expect PAF attacking a carrier group with CM-400 AKG from closer distance and with higher risks for the fighters, instead of using C-802, or even Raad from safe distance?

confirms that the rd93ma underdevelopment is for jft

91.2kn thrust is awesome

would anyone calculate me the twr of jft when the engine thrust is 91.2kn?

Actually it just confirms what was clear for a long time, that Russia will be ready to offer the upgraded version of RD93, based on the RD33 MK. The interesting point however is, if PAF wants to buy them, because they are costlier than the current engines and as Oscar or fatman17 often stated, PAF seems to prefer Chinese engines, instead of Russian engines in future.

The TWR depends on the weight of the fighter of course and before you know how much that will change you can't calculate the TWR, not to forget that the 91.kN are Afterburner thrust, which is hardly important, since the fighters normally fly with dry thrust.