JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[mudas777]

PS: I intentionally left out the Country that you may think Pak may have to head butts with and which is far away, it would be a fools errand to think of that head butt.

Pushing our luck against that country our dear nationals are going to find themselves out of depth and their tax evasion tales exposed. PAF haven't got some divine powers and our pilots are human like other forces may be better trained but that air force personnel are not being only to some kinder garden school either. Our main is enemy next door and our own survival is at stake before we can enjoy the luxury of venturing further a field.

 

[Arsalan345]

Those bombers are still going to launch cruise missiles tbh. That's all they're for, barring the B-2 and B-21, which will likely do very daring raids, that too after enemy's air force has been weakened.
Future lies with autonomous drones and stand off munitions. Risking having a plane shot down or a pilot captured is a huge political risk.

I agree to some extent. I still believe that big bombers can still run havoc near enemy fields.

Do you know what the purpose of the Pakistani armed forces is?

I understand your point but it's fancy. I mean you can't defend every time. we have history of going inside India. Don't tell me that you know nothing about PAF. Daring raids, night raids etc. I mean enemy still has lots of things completely covered which is hard to penetrate. Many know this fact but obviously i don't want to go in detail.

PLAAF H-6H/M are Missile carriers, their target of interest are far from the Main Land China. Same is / was the case for Russia / USSR, their Bomber fleet had to travel well into Atlantic / Pacific Oceans to carry out strikes. The above model doesn't apply for the PAF, Pakistan is not interested in attacking KSA, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia, Yamen, etc. or venturing into Mediterranean Sea to attack a Country / countries, PAF's targets are right next door.

PS: I intentionally left out the Country that you may think Pak may have to head butts with and which is far away, it would be a fools errand to think of that head butt.

I understand your point but we have our own strategic interest. Strategic places which we can't target from here. i mean come on, you use satellite images as well. Those who see images in real time knows this. Penetration deep inside India is always a problem. I understand your point but here w are talking about either us or them. There is nothing in between.

 

[Arsalan345]

Sooner or latter every air force ends up entering the enemy territory regardless of their air defences and PAF is no exception. We don't have millions of Rad's sitting on the shelves and they are not a cure for all the ills. PAF if they have chosen the J10 for induction must have their own reasons considering we can't buy the western planes due to the shortage of funds or refusal of those countries to sell it to us. We can all dream of F35 or F16 V but lets be real as they are not on the table so PAF to do with the next thing available.

J-10c has maintenance issues. They recently landed the jet in water. Everyone knows how China uses firewall to destroy information that she feel can hurt her interest. I think JF-17 is good enough and we should wind up this project after Block-3. We need more f-16s. I don't care if we beg or not. F-16 is more than enough to handle Su-30 and Rafales. F-16s are in low numbers. we need At least 200. Come on, we beg for money every single day. We should ask united states if they can give us more f-16s or not. put something on the table for them or fool them like CPEC ended and things like that. We can get our jets. We need a negotiator which i believe we don't have.

 

[KaiserX]

J-10c has maintenance issues. They recently landed the jet in water. Everyone knows how China uses firewall to destroy information that she feel can hurt her interest. I think JF-17 is good enough and we should wind up this project after Block-3. We need more f-16s. I don't care if we beg or not. F-16 is more than enough to handle Su-30 and Rafales. F-16s are in low numbers. we need At least 200. Come on, we beg for money every single day. We should ask united states if they can give us more f-16s or not. put something on the table for them or fool them like CPEC ended and things like that. We can get our jets. We need a negotiator which i believe we don't have.

What kind of logic is this... give up after the JF17B3 and focus on old used F16s JF17B3 is far more capable than 90s era F16s.

PAF will use J10CP as a stopgap until the 5th generation program matures in Pakistan/China. This will be a combo of purchasing off the shelf from China and producing domestically at home.

Pakistan has historically kept very mum on its aquisitions/projects. We know project azm is in the work but we have yet to determine the full scope. My personal analysis is that more than likely it will be designed/conceived in Pakistan but majority of the prototype/avionic development will be with China either CAC or SAC. Pakistan has had great relations with CAC, we developed the JF17 with them, and are purchasing J10CPs from them. More than likely AZM will be similar to J20 but a little smaller in size.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_1Y50nXYAUKiLd.jpg

Very very similar to the J20

j20 - Recherche Google

www.google.com

PAF might have decided that (75-100?) J20 type heavy fighter is more than sufficient for its 5th generation needs. Remember PLAAF is already working on a loyal wingman drone concept with its J20B twin seat fighter. PAF in the long term may also go for dozens of these loyal wingman drones as force multipliers. The future is not replacing every 4th generation 1-1 with new fighters. It will be using a few dozen 5th generations jets backed by hundreds of drones and 4th generations jets as well as AWACS/Communication/EW all acting in net centric C4I warfare. I see MOST VALUE IN AZM IS WE GO WITH A 5TH GENERATION LOYAL WINGMAN TYPE CONCEPT DRONE along with the Jet itself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1291769250772901888

You stated that you dont see the JF17 program moving beyond B3? I see it becoming a future UCAV or a technology demonstrator for us to go that route much quicker/cheaper.

Again I may be wrong but I highly doubt it. From PAFs strong relations with CAC, to the design similarities of the AZM/J20, to recent acquisition of a few dozen J10C. Lastly we know that China time and time again has exported its top notch equipment (post decade) to pakistan. J20 is late 2010s technology at this point (most of it). Just my 2 cents

 

[mudas777]

J-10c has maintenance issues. They recently landed the jet in water. Everyone knows how China uses firewall to destroy information that she feel can hurt her interest. I think JF-17 is good enough and we should wind up this project after Block-3. We need more f-16s. I don't care if we beg or not. F-16 is more than enough to handle Su-30 and Rafales. F-16s are in low numbers. we need At least 200. Come on, we beg for money every single day. We should ask united states if they can give us more f-16s or not. put something on the table for them or fool them like CPEC ended and things like that. We can get our jets. We need a negotiator which i believe we don't have.

Lol what a sale pitch for the F 16 and falling for the wrong woman but young man answer is No. Era of F 16 is behind us, CPEC is important to us and staying aloof from the game of QUAD is very important for our country future. Rafales and SU 30 are good planes but over time PAF will find their antidotes too and F 16 is not the only answer. Pakistan is our country and we can't allow our security in other hands they will be more then happy to disarm us to the bare minimum and change us into the toothless tigers.
All planes have got issues of there own, recently UK F 35 went down from the carrier into cold waters too. Is US is going to stop using these beasts? So in future don't fall for the wrong woman and we just have to come up with some desi medication for there shinning toys. Even at this stage with IAF, its not going to be one way affair and we are more then capable of to smack them again.

 

[KaiserX]

Lol what a sale pitch for the F 16 and falling for the wrong woman but young man answer is No. Era of F 16 is behind us, CPEC is important to us and staying aloof from the game of QUAD is very important for our country future. Rafales and SU 30 are good planes but over time PAF will find their antidotes too and F 16 is not the only answer. Pakistan is our country and we can't allow our security in other hands they will be more then happy to disarm us to the bare minimum and change us into the toothless tigers.
All planes have got issues of there own, recently UK F 35 went down from the carrier into cold waters too. Is US is going to stop using these beasts? So in future don't fall for the wrong woman and we just have to come up with some desi medication for there shinning toys. Even at this stage with IAF, its not going to be one way affair and we are more then capable of to smack them again.

People need to move beyond the whole F16 nostalgia. The F16 had its time and era. That is the PAFs past. We must look towards the future and envision what that will look like and start investing today in these concepts key being LOYAL WINGMAN DRONES powered by AI/Data fusion. With the JF17 infrastructure we can easily bivot future blocks of the JF17 to be more stealthy/unmanned. These can continue to be powered by RD93 engines. This is where I want to see the PAF going in the next decade.

Our strengh will be a large JF17B3 fleet (200+), J110C (50), and AZM (100) backed by hundreds of loyal wingman drones. The F16s will take the place of the F7s today. Good to have but secondary.

 

[Arsalan345]

What kind of logic is this... give up after the JF17B3 and focus on old used F16s JF17B3 is far more capable than 90s era F16s.

PAF will use J10CP as a stopgap until the 5th generation program matures in Pakistan/China. This will be a combo of purchasing off the shelf from China and producing domestically at home.

Pakistan has historically kept very mum on its aquisitions/projects. We know project azm is in the work but we have yet to determine the full scope. My personal analysis is that more than likely it will be designed/conceived in Pakistan but majority of the prototype/avionic development will be with China either CAC or SAC. Pakistan has had great relations with CAC, we developed the JF17 with them, and are purchasing J10CPs from them. More than likely AZM will be similar to J20 but a little smaller in size.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_1Y50nXYAUKiLd.jpg

Very very similar to the J20

j20 - Recherche Google

www.google.com

PAF might have decided that (75-100?) J20 type heavy fighter is more than sufficient for its 5th generation needs. Remember PLAAF is already working on a loyal wingman drone concept with its J20B twin seat fighter. PAF in the long term may also go for dozens of these loyal wingman drones as force multipliers. The future is not replacing every 4th generation 1-1 with new fighters. It will be using a few dozen 5th generations jets backed by hundreds of drones and 4th generations jets as well as AWACS/Communication/EW all acting in net centric C4I warfare. I see MOST VALUE IN AZM IS WE GO WITH A 5TH GENERATION LOYAL WINGMAN TYPE CONCEPT DRONE along with the Jet itself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1291769250772901888

You stated that you dont see the JF17 program moving beyond B3? I see it becoming a future UCAV or a technology demonstrator for us to go that route much quicker/cheaper.

Again I may be wrong but I highly doubt it. From PAFs strong relations with CAC, to the design similarities of the AZM/J20, to recent acquisition of a few dozen J10C. Lastly we know that China time and time again has exported its top notch equipment (post decade) to pakistan. J20 is late 2010s technology at this point (most of it). Just my 2 cents

I like the way you describe things. I understand that we have great relationship with Chinese manufacturers but F-16s are still far superior than any other jet in Chinese inventory. F-16s are battle tested. I am talking about new block 70 f-16s and not about old f-16s. We have done this massive deal of Afghanistan but it looks like we got nothing lol. We can upgrade f-16s as well. Yes i agree with your drone concept. We need a superior technology and i agree that we shouldn't think about 1-1. We should think about technology first.

 

[Arsalan345]

Lol what a sale pitch for the F 16 and falling for the wrong woman but young man answer is No. Era of F 16 is behind us, CPEC is important to us and staying aloof from the game of QUAD is very important for our country future. Rafales and SU 30 are good planes but over time PAF will find their antidotes too and F 16 is not the only answer. Pakistan is our country and we can't allow our security in other hands they will be more then happy to disarm us to the bare minimum and change us into the toothless tigers.
All planes have got issues of there own, recently UK F 35 went down from the carrier into cold waters too. Is US is going to stop using these beasts? So in future don't fall for the wrong woman and we just have to come up with some desi medication for there shinning toys. Even at this stage with IAF, its not going to be one way affair and we are more then capable of to smack them again.

CPEC is finished. Chinese are fishing in Balochistan waters lol. F-16s are modified. I am not talking about old f-16s. I am talking about negotiation for new f-16s. Obviously we have no choice but to accept Chinese jets. Chinese technology isn't mature. They are good but they are new in this business. Why not second hand f-15s? I mean we can do it. Desire is necessary.

 

[mudas777]

CPEC is finished. Chinese are fishing in Balochistan waters lol. F-16s are modified. I am not talking about old f-16s. I am talking about negotiation for new f-16s. Obviously we have no choice but to accept Chinese jets. Chinese technology isn't mature. They are good but they are new in this business. Why not second hand f-15s? I mean we can do it. Desire is necessary.

Shahbash young man.

 

[MIRauf]

CPEC is finished. Chinese are fishing in Balochistan waters lol. F-16s are modified. I am not talking about old f-16s. I am talking about negotiation for new f-16s. Obviously we have no choice but to accept Chinese jets. Chinese technology isn't mature. They are good but they are new in this business. Why not second hand f-15s? I mean we can do it. Desire is necessary.

If F-16s are hard to come by then how will you manage F-15s ? you ( PAF ) has no F-15 infrastructure in place. Will KSA allow you to use their ? or the Qatri ? KSA is upgrading their F-15 fleet, Qatar is getting newer one anyway. If F-16s, which PAF has infrastructure in place to support 114+ and are having trouble getting more what chance do you see in getting used F-15s ?

You might be too young to remember when Indian carried out their second nuclear test back in 1990s, POTUS ( Clinton ) offered handful of F-16s to PAF so Pak wouldn't carry out tit-for-tat tests. Pak asked if POTUS was talking 100+ F-16s, to which he smiled and said that this is a very large number to ask for, don't think we can make that happen. You are asking for PAF to go for F-15 by giving up what ?

 

[Deino]

J-10c has maintenance issues. They recently landed the jet in water. Everyone knows how China uses firewall to destroy information that she feel can hurt her interest. I think JF-17 is good enough and we should wind up this project after Block-3. We need more f-16s. I don't care if we beg or not. F-16 is more than enough to handle Su-30 and Rafales. F-16s are in low numbers. we need At least 200. Come on, we beg for money every single day. We should ask united states if they can give us more f-16s or not. put something on the table for them or fool them like CPEC ended and things like that. We can get our jets. We need a negotiator which i believe we don't have.

Oh well … another genius has spoken: A J-10AS twin seater powered by a Russian AL-31FN crash landed in a river bed without any information why (maintenance, bird-strike, engine failure, pilot error or what) and you conclude the latest WS-10B powered J-10Cs have maintenance issues so that they are not useful for the PAF.

Impressive analysis indeed….

 

[iLION12345_1]

Oh well … another genius has spoken: A J-10AS twin seater powered by a Russian AL-31FN crash landed in a river bed without any information why (maintenance, bird-strike, engine failure, pilot error or what) and you conclude the latest WS-10B powered J-10Cs have maintenance issues so that they are not useful for the PAF.

Impressive analysis indeed….

Typical F-16 fanboy…to them any jet that isn’t the F-16 have all sorts of issues.

 

[MastanKhan]

Please stop quoting Balakot. They did little, we did little. I think you should better read about air defence system of India before talking about Raad. Basically it is same mentality and that's we have to stick in our own yard. What if we have to go inside physically? I mean physical fighter jet itself. Raad can't solve all problems. Similarly brahmos will not solve all of their problems. Long range bombers is necessary. Have you seen Russia, China? They have every type of long range cruise missile but still they use long range bombers like tu-160 etc. Why? There is a reason for using long range bombers. India has Mirage 2000, still much better than our mirages. We must think about full destruction of enemy. You have to go inside. Cruise missiles can't solve all problems.

Hi,

The unpredictability of the direction of launch is the most important part of a bomber strike.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Hope you are doing fine, haven't seen you around for some time.

Hi,

The unpredictability of the direction of launch is the most important part of a bomber strike.

 

[Arsalan345]

Oh well … another genius has spoken: A J-10AS twin seater powered by a Russian AL-31FN crash landed in a river bed without any information why (maintenance, bird-strike, engine failure, pilot error or what) and you conclude the latest WS-10B powered J-10Cs have maintenance issues so that they are not useful for the PAF.

Impressive analysis indeed….

Hello. I have seen pictures. I didn't name your engine. I said it landed in water. have you seen fighter jets landing in water? Yes China uses firewall. Many information is hidden from outside world. I don't blame Chinese engines.