Islamic Union

[R.A.W.]

I am not going to discuss partition with you on this thread. If Indian Muslims are happy being Indian thats good for them.

We Pakistanis are also happy being Pakistani and we are thankful that partition happened.

Today all Pakistanis all across the world are happy to be called Pakistanis we are glad not to be associated with India (a country with more than 900 million Hindu population, where Hindus make more than 80% of the population).

If you want to discuss the situation of Indian Muslims, go to this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/33179-india-her-muslims.html

Cheers.

What is the reason for being explicitly worried about Muslims. When we say we are poor we mean Indians are poor not Hindus or Sikhs or Muslims. What is the point of explicitly mentioning them when you give a damn about them?

yes as per your articles your Muslim brothers are suffering...... So if you are not just doing India bashing you should be the first one to support them as much as you can. And the best way would be to make them join Islamic union or OIC so that you can actively participate in their uplift. Or you want to say "Indian Muslims are suffering but I give damn about them"

 

[Developereo]

Islamic Union should be a union of Muslim majority countries.

We have already explain it to them several times.
They are just trolling.
Please don't continue to feed the trolls.

We should probably call it UMMAS - Union of Muslim Majority Autonomous States

 

[moha199]

How about India having a Muslim president. It is ruled by Muslim then. At any point of time we can have a Muslim president. Indians dont have issues with having a Muslim president or a prime minister.

And keeping aside India are you not ignoring the 3rd largest population of Muslims.

Hey bro i guess you didn't read my Reply carefully, WITH MUSLIM GOVERNMENT which means the LAW of land with be muslim law, Which means India will be ruled under Muslim law..... So if you want that and if you are ok with MUSLIM LAW IN INDIA then, Why not brother Bissmillah Lets do it Then your point is valid that India should be given a seat in Muslim Union since India has 3rd biggest Muslim population with Muslim LAW and Governement, Sure why not...........But No less then that It should be ruled by Muslim Government and Muslim Law and Idia will be called Islamic republic of India since all the countries will be called Islamic republic of ............
( Please all the other Indian brothers this message is only for my this brother

 

[moha199]

This thread was put to know if Islamic union could work or not, after 2-3 pages, these guys have formed a union and Excluded India and Other Muslim minorities.

hahahah Welcome to Flamtown brother haahha

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think until and unless we not go for a common language it will be very difficult to reduce out differences among Muslim communities. A common language can bring all Muslims to a point where they can even force governments to act in interests of common man and justice and then this Union (which I believe is bound to happen for once at least before day of judgment).

If we look at Pakistan, most of difference is due to language differences. Language is core of any civilization and if we want to go for an Islamic civilization we will have to go for a common language and education system. I know it will very difficult for non Arab countries at beginning to adopt Arabic education system. A remedy for this can be including Arabic as a subject in relative education systems of each countries but this must be made sure that most of people are able to understand Arabic when they finish their education. After that intellectual from all Muslim countries can mobilize masses for peaceful transition towards Islamic government systems.

This will paveway forward for this dream of union. Don't expect anything magical and over night without getting educated equally from Indonesia to Morocco.

 

[moha199]

So if you are ignoring one of the majority of Islamic community then what is Islamic left about it. It is just a another collaboration of nations based on national interest not Islamic interests. So there is nothing Islamic when you yourself are ignoring Muslims.

We will not be Ignoring these muslims instead they could move to the rest of Muslim states. Trust me on that since this Muslim Union will be holding a huge land a huge economy etc

 

[Omar1984]

I think until and unless we not go for a common language it will be very difficult to reduce out differences among Muslim communities. A common language can bring all Muslims to a point where they can even force governments to act in interests of common man and justice and then this Union (which I believe is bound to happen for once at least before day of judgment).

If we look at Pakistan, most of difference is due to language differences. Language is core of any civilization and if we want to go for an Islamic civilization we will have to go for a common language and education system. I know it will very difficult for non Arab countries at beginning to adopt Arabic education system. A remedy for this can be including Arabic as a subject in relative education systems of each countries but this must be made sure that most of people are able to understand Arabic when they finish their education. After that intellectual from all Muslim countries can mobilize masses for peaceful transition towards Islamic government systems.

This will paveway forward for this dream of union. Don't expect anything magical and over night without getting educated equally from Indonesia to Morocco.

European countries all dont speak the same language and they are working with each other just fine in the European Union.

To have an Islamic Union, people of Muslim majority countries should really want it but as I said in my previous posts we have to build it up slowly. Work on the existing regional organizations we have with Muslim majority countries, like ECO, Arab League, etc and make them strong, and then bring all Muslim majority countries together.

 

[R.A.W.]

We will not be Ignoring these muslims instead they could move to the rest of Muslim states. Trust me on that since this Muslim Union will be holding a huge land a huge economy etc

Sir with due respect... India has 15 crore Muslims... can you name one country who is ready to share this burden, forget about other nations.

And another thing not everyone will be able to migrate so will it be downgraded to not being a Muslim as you are ignoring him the part of Islamic union because of his geographical region.

As far as trolling is concerned let me suggest you for the solution which I was trying to figure out of you people
My suggestion would be you can have all Muslims as a national of Islamic union and provide them passport to work in other countries just as we have migrants today.
And for such a Union you will have to lay down national boundaries as they will hamper because a saudi will not be ready to share his wealth for Pakistani and Pakistani will not be ready to give his job to Bangladeshi. Lets not get emotional think practically.

 

[Developereo]

I think until and unless we not go for a common language it will be very difficult to reduce out differences among Muslim communities. A common language can bring all Muslims to a point where they can even force governments to act in interests of common man and justice and then this Union (which I believe is bound to happen for once at least before day of judgment).

The EU does just fine with so many different languages.

If we look at Pakistan, most of difference is due to language differences.

One of the biggest reasons we lost East Pakistan was trying to impose Urdu over Bengalis. Tolerance is not restricted to religion; tolerance of linguistic and cultural differences is also needed.

Language is core of any civilization and if we want to go for an Islamic civilization we will have to go for a common language and education system. I know it will very difficult for non Arab countries at beginning to adopt Arabic education system. A remedy for this can be including Arabic as a subject in relative education systems of each countries but this must be made sure that most of people are able to understand Arabic when they finish their education.

I don't think this is needed, and will be counterproductive. It will be perceived as Arabisation and will kill any unity movement instantly. Let people keep their language, culture and traditions. Teach them Islamic history, instead, to promote unity.

We have to cut the Saudi apron strings and follow the Christian example. Most Christians don't learn Italian or Latin. They respect Rome/Vatican, but that's it.

It doesn't mean we don't like the Arabs or Arabic culture. It just means it's not a requirement to become a true Muslim.

After that intellectual from all Muslim countries can mobilize masses for peaceful transition towards Islamic government systems.

Intellectuals, community, religious and media leaders and, eventually, political leaders. It's a matter of making people believe that it is possible. As long as people think something is impossible, it will remain impossible. It will only become a reality once people believe it is possible.

 

[vsdoc]

I am not going to discuss partition with you on this thread. If Indian Muslims are happy being Indian thats good for them.

We Pakistanis are also happy being Pakistani and we are thankful that partition happened.

Today all Pakistanis all across the world are happy to be called Pakistanis we are glad not to be associated with India (a country with more than 900 million Hindu population, where Hindus make more than 80% of the population).

If you want to discuss the situation of Indian Muslims, go to this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/33179-india-her-muslims.html

And while your at it, take a look at these articles too (all written by non-pakistanis):

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Why do Indian Muslims lag behind?

India's Muslims chafe under suspicion - Washington Times

‘Over 94 percent poor Muslims don’t get subsidised food grains’

Ayodhya Muslims ? poor, uneducated and frightened | Indian Muslims

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/29/world/asia/29iht-india.3715145.html?_r=1

Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' -- latimes.com

Government report concedes India’s Muslims are a socially deprived, victimised minority

India's Muslims See Bias in Housing - washingtonpost.com

The quality of Muslim human resources must improve

TheStar.com | World | Fearful Muslims adopt Hindu IDs

Cheers.

Good cause neither do I want to flog a dead horse. I am sure you will appreciate that each of my statements was a rebuttal to one of your own ..... so the chicken did come after the egg.

And yes, I am acutely aware of the links above which you liberally dose every thread with to the extent that its not possible to have Omar bhai's involvement in a thread unless a few of these "brother muslim (Indian) victim" links have not been flashed - like a badge of identity or your "compassionate and outraged brother muslim" passport if you will.

There are other compatriots of yours who consistently do it too, A1Kaid ji and Jana ji and AM ji immediately come to mind, but their saving grace is that unlike you at least they are not being hypocritical and jumping into this thread and proposing Islamic apartheid when it suits them (and islamic brotherhood at other times depending on the need of the hour).

When it comes to inciting negative sentiments (post Godhra, Mumbai, etc.) Indian muslims become your brothers.

When it comes to usurping prime land Indian (Kashmiri) muslims become your brothers.

When it comes time to walk the talk of Islamic brotherhood and at least make a gesture (thats all this thread would amount to anyways) of inclusive brotherhood on the basis of your religion, suddenly issues like majority/minority, ruling power, the "betrayal" of 1947, etc etc. come in.

Hope you finally get where me and R.A.W. are coming from.

Cheers, Doc

 

[EjazR]

@Moha199

Turkey, all Central Asian states are secular by constitution. Many other countries like Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia strive to maintain secular laws
Also, its only personal laws that directly affect Islamic rules, such as in adoption marriage or inheritance. Most of the legislation nowadays are something that would have to be passed in a parliament and would require ijtihad.

And other interesting thing for you, India has separate Muslim Personal Law, along with seperate laws for other religious communities. These laws although comprise only 3-4% of all laws provide Muslims the right to follow Islamic practices as per the law of the land. Infact, even Turkish govt. and the CIS states don't allow as much freedom to follow Islam as does the Indian constitution and laws.

 

[Rind]

Is it possible to build something like Muslim Union with Islamic States...Islamic Version of Soviet Union..I often hear this idea from a lot of people so i was wondering if it is possible..?The Muslims countries are rich with resources etc.It can become the richest and most strong union ever created..We would have a proper Islamic army, air force, navy.We could liberate Palestine.No western nation will dare to attack it but the question is Can Muslims unite like this or Shia-Sunni divide will not let this happen.Also Indians please don't troll here.

U are quite right, ther must be Islamic Union too strong to resist challenges of western hegemony. This is possible only when all Mislims think alike, say alike and behave alike espcially the leaders of the Muslim countries. For Muslims to come towards unity in diversity, there is a dire need of having a common language. Today, these countries speak their own languages.. i e, Arabic, Persian, Pushto, Urdu and so on. Muslims treat themselves differently. A common language imbibes the spirit of uity and oneness. It makes people closer to one another and brings them opportunity to share their feelings of despair and happiness as well. Let us hope for the best.

 

[Omar1984]

We all should take notice of Indian members reaction to the Islamic Union suggestion.

Looks like they strongly oppose Pakistan being united with countries that have majority Muslim population and we have had many Indian members in this forum make suggestions that India and Pakistan should form a union.

We should analyze the following:

1. Why dont Indians want Pakistan to form a union with countries with majority Muslim population?

2. Why have Indian members continuously brought up the suggestion that India and Pakistan should form a union?

3. Why has NO Pakistani ever suggested forming a union with India?

4. Why are so many Pakistanis in favor with a Union with countries that have a majority Muslim population and not with India?


Indian members should really ponder about these questions.

 

[PakShaheen79]

The EU does just fine with so many different languages.

EU is not a religious union. Our religion is tightly bound with Arabic language.

One of the biggest reasons we lost East Pakistan was trying to impose Urdu over Bengalis. Tolerance is not restricted to religion; tolerance of linguistic and cultural differences is also needed.

That's why i am talking about a gradual change approach. I am saying make it necessary or something like that.. purpose is if someone travel from one location to other... they must able to understand what other person is talking about. It will also help in reducing our differences... After all people do learn English for communication even if its not their national language.

I don't think this is needed, and will be counterproductive. It will be perceived as Arabisation and will kill any unity movement instantly. Let people keep their language, culture and traditions. Teach them Islamic history, instead, to promote unity.

We have to cut the Saudi apron strings and follow the Christian example. Most Christians don't learn Italian or Latin. They respect Rome/Vatican, but that's it.

It doesn't mean we don't like the Arabs or Arabic culture. It just means it's not a requirement to become a true Muslim.

I don't have any objection with regional language, cultures and things like that. I am supporting Arabic as language at institutional and administrative system. If we can have English there what is so wrong with Arabic. Now why i am supporting Arabic at official level is because of we are talking is to make things more in order. Person traveling from Morocco to Pakistan will face lot of troubles if he would have to deal with too many languages for his official documentation and keep in mind bro we are up for some religious union and we both know what Arabic (as language only) holds in religion.

ntellectuals, community, religious and media leaders and, eventually, political leaders. It's a matter of making people believe that it is possible. As long as people think something is impossible, it will remain impossible. It will only become a reality once people believe it is possible.

That's why all my emphasis is on uniform education system. We will have to ignite this desire somehow.

This is very good topic and looking forward for more exchange of ideas in this regards with my brothers.

 

[vsdoc]

Ponder all you want ..... all we Indians are requesting is that once the pondering is done, be ponder-ously consistent.

You have still not adequately clarified on the dichotomy of your relationship with our Indian muslims who we feel would be a positive value addition to your Islamic Union.

Is it really fair on your part Omar to deny them their rights as Muslims. Just because they choose to live a secular life alongside their Indian brothers (note: NOT Hindu, but Indian).

Cheers, Doc