Muslim Union (MU) like EU

[-blitzkrieg-]

A tribal mindset cannot form unions

 

[nang2]

That is wrong, your thinking is too hierarcy and too formal, leadership will come naturally, even if 3 men talk in Coffe shop we can see who is actually dominating the conversation after some time.

That process will happen naturally, basically OIC has already been exist, and last months they can gather Muslim foreign ministers in Pakistan and subsequent cooperation will follow.

3 men talking in a coffee shop are not a team. It may be a team in the process of forming, but not yet a team. It is not like you can call any random group of people a team. A team must have a leadership. It is the prerequisite of having a team.

 

[Indos]

What the heck, OIC has already been exist.

 

[PakFactor]

OIC is actually already a big achievement, I believe this kind of organization never happen before 20 centuries. In the past never I heard Muslim kingdoms and Sultanates ever make this kind of organization across Muslim world.

In the past Muslim sultanate will conquer another Muslim sultanate, this kind of primitive mind set that is now under the mind of ISIS.

OIC is morally and intellectually decayed.

It's a big dream. I mean, really really big. The first thing we need to realize is that this idea is the peak of Mount Kaf. There isn't even enough intellectualism for that in muslim countries. There are so many things that people don't even wanna to talk about. We still try yo understand and evaluate even our own bonds and cultural bases, under the influence of western orientalists. In every period when Islam is targeted by the world hegamons, We try to explain ourselves to the world that 'this is not the real Islam', while someone weaponize or radicalize our common values for into their own interests.

There is a great identity crisis in Islamic communities. I cannot blame anyone for this, we are the party that was defeated while the current world order was being established. Our borders, our geopolitical risk factors, and therefore even our relationships with each other, are actually based on programming against our will. But those who deny this and embrace the idea of the ummah, still far from have the equiping to cover this great idea. I do not want to paint a very pessimistic picture, there is hope for the future. But we are not even at the beginning of the path.

Well put along with what @Indus Pakistan said in the previous post.

 

[Zhukov]

The Palestine issue can unite us.

No it cannot. Palestine issue is not an existential or even potential threat to any country other then Palestine and may be to some extant Syria (Due to Golan) and Lebnon maybe .
Outside that it might be an Arab Issue at best. And These stable Arab countries like KSA , UAE , Qatar , Bahrain Egypt Kuwait etc may in future Mediate for a settlement.

The thing is, What people like me and you think on personal level as per our believes and sentiments does not concern Governments.

Governments decide on Security concerns , Economic Opportuinities , GeoPolitical Issues etc etc.

The best possible scenario right now can be a Strong and Independent Platform like UN for Muslim countries that can serve an arbitrary role for Solution of all the Issues among Muslim countries. Like Turkey vs Egypt , Iran vs all the Gulf region , Iran vs Pakistan Afghanistan vs Pakistan and the list goes on. And the next step for investment pooling , Infrastructure developement and Easy market access and trade amoung Muslim world. That will be the best possible outcome.

Other than that , Unless and untill there is a very real visible Existential Threat to all of the Muslim Countries occurs (May Allah Protect us from any such event) there is no reason.
And frankly it will be more detrimental then good.

I mean why on earth would you want a military Alliance with Algeria and Then Mess up your Relations with France because Algeria have some Problem with france. Or Fight with Singapore for Malaysia may be. Hell Fight with russia if things go south in a Muslim country like Kazakhstan. Alliance go both ways mate. You dont want to be best Friend with everyone amd get problems of everyone dragged into your home.

Every country is hostage to geography. Pakistan's geography gives us two choices.

Look west/north.

Afghanistan, China, Central Asia, Turkey or as you said Eurasia. This is the only option.

View attachment 814293


Look east.

Or go back to the British era of pre 1947 and undo Pakistan. Welcome back to British Raj v.02 and become a Indian satellite.

View attachment 814295

We should be happy as we are and Humble with what we have Minus the Fantasies of Conquering Kabul and Delhi.

 

[Zhukov]

It's a big dream. I mean, really really big. The first thing we need to realize is that this idea is the peak of Mount Kaf. There isn't even enough intellectualism for that in muslim countries. There are so many things that people don't even wanna to talk about. We still try yo understand and evaluate even our own bonds and cultural bases, under the influence of western orientalists. In every period when Islam is targeted by the world hegamons, We try to explain ourselves to the world that 'this is not the real Islam', while someone weaponize or radicalize our common values for into their own interests.

There is a great identity crisis in Islamic communities. I cannot blame anyone for this, we are the party that was defeated while the current world order was being established. Our borders, our geopolitical risk factors, and therefore even our relationships with each other, are actually based on programming against our will. But those who deny this and embrace the idea of the ummah, still far from have the equiping to cover this great idea. I do not want to paint a very pessimistic picture, there is hope for the future. But we are not even at the beginning of the path.

Sir i beg to disagree on one Point , There was no such thing as WE to begin with. WE were not defeated by the rise of the new world order. The new world order replaced colonialism.
Islam was , is and will always remain an ideology to Live in accordance with. it doesnt matter if a billion people follow it in 100 different states. They might have different problems different enemies different cultures. They are ummat as a whole. They dont need to be single government Ruler or institution to be Ummat. They might choose to. But not obligated.
For the most part of so called ISLAMIC hostory. Rulers just used this make shift concept of somekind of divine legitimacy to rule over Muslims. From which era this trend started after Prophet Muhammad SAW Passed away is debatable among historians.
But From the lavish Palaces of The Midieval Arab Super Power of House of Ummayads to Persian/Arab Hybrid Courts of House of Abbasids To the Greeko Roman Turks of House of Ottoman in Istanbul , To the Shia Shahs of Persia. Everyone Peddled this heresy of being Self Proclaimed Divine Ruler and titled themselves Caliph/Imam/Ameer etc according to convenience of sect of their followers.

Acedemically speaking, if you want to consider the last political continuation of Prophet SAW of Unified Muslim authority representing all muslims whose authority was largely respected throughout Muslim world, It was the Abbasid authority that was crushed under the hoofs of Mongol Hords in Baghdad like nearly 800 years ago.
After that it was just an up for grab title for the most powerfull player.
The sooner we wrap our head around this fact the sooner we will get out of this quagmire of Identity crisis.

 

[R2D2]

No it cannot. Palestine issue is not an existential or even potential threat to any country other then Palestine and may be to some extant Syria (Due to Golan) and Lebnon maybe .
Outside that it might be an Arab Issue at best. And These stable Arab countries like KSA , UAE , Qatar , Bahrain Egypt Kuwait etc may in future Mediate for a settlement.

The thing is, What people like me and you think on personal level as per our believes and sentiments does not concern Governments.

Governments decide on Security concerns , Economic Opportuinities , GeoPolitical Issues etc etc.

The best possible scenario right now can be a Strong and Independent Platform like UN for Muslim countries that can serve an arbitrary role for Solution of all the Issues among Muslim countries. Like Turkey vs Egypt , Iran vs all the Gulf region , Iran vs Pakistan Afghanistan vs Pakistan and the list goes on. And the next step for investment pooling , Infrastructure developement and Easy market access and trade amoung Muslim world. That will be the best possible outcome.

Other than that , Unless and untill there is a very real visible Existential Threat to all of the Muslim Countries occurs (May Allah Protect us from any such event) there is no reason.
And frankly it will be more detrimental then good.

I mean why on earth would you want a military Alliance with Algeria and Then Mess up your Relations with France because Algeria have some Problem with france. Or Fight with Singapore for Malaysia may be. Hell Fight with russia if things go south in a Muslim country like Kazakhstan. Alliance go both ways mate. You dont want to be best Friend with everyone amd get problems of everyone dragged into your home.


We should be happy as we are and Humble with what we have Minus the Fantasies of Conquering Kabul and Delhi.

When you raise the Azaan, they will come to fight you. Just like they came for the Taliban. They broke up the Ottoman Empire as part of a plan.

 

[R2D2]

When you raise the Azaan, they will come to fight you. Just like they came for the Taliban. They broke up the Ottoman Empire as part of a plan.

The Bosnians were also happy leading European wives and their men and women marrying Christians and had forgotten Islam. But they came for the Bosnians nevertheless. War is part of the business of a Sate and should be avoided at all costs. But the Quran says something like "Do you not listen to the cries of the women and children?" If there is injustice anywhere, be it with Muslims or non-muslims then it is the duty of the Muslims to stop that. You may think it is far fetched and imaginary thinking. But look at why America interferes in Pakistani politics when minorities are killed, when there are human rights abuses and the list is long. It is a normal part of the business of running a Super Power to have active engagement everywhere. Be it Algeria or anywhere else. If there is to be war due to this then so be it. America has had so many wars since WWII. I think more than 50.
@ahmadnawaz22

 

[HAIDER]

EU has France and Germany as the anchor. Which countries would be the anchor or MU?

Who has more guns and nuclear warheads .. and guess who.. we believe in the old tribal style.

 

[Zhukov]

When you raise the Azaan, they will come to fight you. Just like they came for the Taliban. They broke up the Ottoman Empire as part of a plan.

No one came to break ottoman empire. World war 1 saw the distruction of 4 major european powers The Romanov Dynasty of Russian Empire , The Habsburg Dynasty of Autria Hungry Empire , The formidable German Empire and the Ottoman empire.
Infact Ottoman empire wasn't even part of primary conflict. It was primarily Austro Hungarian German vs Russian British French(Entante).
The Reason for start of World War 1 was so stupid in first place how assasination of a prince dragged all world powers into war due to mutual Defence agreements.
And Ottoman entry was even more stupid, It wasnt even their war. Ottomans just jumped in on German side stupidly in hope to gain back The territories they lost to Balkan league in the war a decade ago. Infact Sultan was opposed to join thr war and wanted to remained neutral. Some army officers forced Ottoman empire into war without approval of Sultan. They conspired along with german empire , Some ships of ottoman Navy Bombed the Crimean Ports of Russian Empire without approval and Knowledge of Sultan hence Russian decleration of War on Ottoman Empire and so on. So yes Ottoman empire Entered war on its own will ,no one forced war on Ottomans.
It was all politics. Infact Just a few decades before breakup of ottoman empire , Their was crimea war when Same British and France were Allies of Ottoman empire against Russian Empire.
I sincerely believe we should study History as it happened and documented by Real Historians of all sides in details before starting to believe half cooked Theories announced by non historians.

As for thr Taliban. Thats a whole lot different topic debated to death on countless forums. And its a matter of opinnion that does not need further elaborate discussion..Everyone is entitled to have his opinnion.

 

[Zhukov]

The Bosnians were also happy leading European wives and their men and women marrying Christians and had forgotten Islam. But they came for the Bosnians nevertheless. War is part of the business of a Sate and should be avoided at all costs. But the Quran says something like "Do you not listen to the cries of the women and children?" If there is injustice anywhere, be it with Muslims or non-muslims then it is the duty of the Muslims to stop that. You may think it is far fetched and imaginary thinking. But look at why America interferes in Pakistani politics when minorities are killed, when there are human rights abuses and the list is long. It is a normal part of the business of running a Super Power to have active engagement everywhere. Be it Algeria or anywhere else. If there is to be war due to this then so be it. America has had so many wars since WWII. I think more than 50.
@ahmadnawaz22

Sir Firstly who are THEY who came after bosnains? it was the Serbians backed by Russia who Massacred the Bosnian Muslims not American French British etc. It was the chaos of Breakup of Yugoslavia After death of Tito no one was able to lead the country and it fell into chaos. Ethnic tentions rose to peak. What happened in bosnia was the culmination of tentions dated back to ottoman times in this region. You know how we stupidly sow seeds of hatred and our generations have to bear the fruits of it. Same BS that Hindu Extremists try to emulate these days.
It was a very cruel massacre by serbs. And All the criticism made on NATO in this regard is their delayed action which caused so much innocent Muslim deaths. They did bombed Serb forces to stop them eventually.
That Massacre is more of a fault of the fallout of Communist states and had nothing to do with west.

And secondly i am not an American neither i speak for American or Nato Wars or Policies. I am a Pakistani and my Only concern is the crap fed by our Governments to our public for decades to get us Alligned and Inline to a force fed ideology that suits their Failed Policies. I just want my Fellow Countrymen to think and see things clearly. America is a super Power. It has it claws in whole world from Pacific conflicts to Eastern Europe to Subcontinent etc. We cant help it or fight it. We dont need to be party of this super power business. we are a regional power with struggling economy. Cooperate with them where we can and avoid any conflict of Interest as much as we can. Stay away from the behemoths of USA and China Politically.
Point is there is no Boogeyman , There is no us vs them. As far as Duty of being Muslims. Look around your society first. Its total BS. Haramkhori is norm , Mental torturing everyone who is under you by simply not cooperating is a norm , State dont gives a S*** about Elderly , No medical Insurance for poor , Lying cheating is Socially accepted if it fetches money , Child rape is common , Islamic Jurispudence are laughed at by social norms such as multiple merriages to younger girls after your wife get old with you , and how powerfull people simply coerce weaker people to take their case back in Mudai/Prosicution entitlement according to sharia , Murder is casual pep talk. Everyone Judges everyone around them. Its a mental Prison. Judiciary is a joke. Police are thugs. businessmen are above societal norms. Rulers are overlords.Army Guys Call us Bloody Civilians. Civil Beurocrats are a makhluuq from another universe who cant sneeze without protocol. A circus of chaos
How dare we even call our self Muslim country? Do we even know what that means?.Brother fight for an Islamic sociery first. then think about Political Islam amd HELPING other muslim countries(If that concept is even existent).
Truth is the real THEY are the Gang that is running Pakistan. Who cook all this BS crap just to keel us sheep in line so that they may enjoy and we suffer.

 

[khansaheeb]

Muslim Union (MU)​

The European Union (EU) experiment has been a huge success in combining the economic power and manpower of different countries in Europe. Visa free travel between the countries and ability to settle down and work anywhere has resulted in movement of cheap labor from Eastern European countries to advanced countries.

Muslims should also take guidance from this example and convert the already existing Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) into an Economic Union. OIC has been until now mostly a discussion forum where issues relating to Muslim Ummah were discussed. OIC played a positive role during the Afghan Jihad against the Soviet Union.

General (Retd.) Raheel Sharif is already leading the Saudi Islamic Military Counter Terrorism Coalition (IMCTC; Arabic: التحالف الإسلامي العسكري لمحاربة الإرهاب, a military coalition of 41 Muslim countries which is mainly focused on fighting the war against Houthi rebels in Yemen.

However, it seems that the coalition would perform much better if its manpower is from Pakistani, Malaysian, Indonesian and African soldiers.

The new Union should adopt a common currency and have Visa free travel between the member countries and have joint Defense.

Every member country should have its elected government but at the center should be a Muslim Parliament with members elected from all the Muslim countries and a head of Muslim Union called Sadr-e-Dawlah.

The Muslim Union should have its common economic development policies with each county having its separate policies as well for some subjects.

Would have been a good idea a few decades ago but foolish Arabs are taking the region into chaos they will sink us with them. Colonialists are interfering big time and we can see more flames in the region. If Iran goes Nuclear soon we may see change in the future but at the moment the pieces are being set and the game being played to neutralise Iran, and soon after Pakistan will be the major focus and consequently we could see the fall of Makkah and Medina, for that is the ultimate goal. Yemen has great strategic value is being attacked for its strategic location so that China's trade and oil supply could be choked, Arabs are naïve to think this is a Sunni/Shia issue. It can be seen Arabs are being used by Western powers to do their dirty work, after which the Arab Leaders will be disposed of accordingly. The same stooges who were seated in power by the colonialists will be dethroned and deposed, by the same powers at the time of their choosing. Iran is just a pretext for the mighty intervention for the not so mighty Israel. UAE is already hooked by their dependency on oil money and have been systematically overwhelmed by powerful military bases and are now at the mercy of their colonial masters who use Iran as a bogeyman to militarily constrict their hosts even more. The Arabs don't realise that war is being fueled by greed and fed with fear. Slowly and systematically the Arabs are being lead of the cliff; the rulers feel they are aloof to misfortune and the masses are too detached and weak as lack of democracy has placed them in precarious hands.

Pakistan needs to focus on unstable Afghanistan and evil India and leave the Arabs to sort out their own mess. This will mean that Pakistan will have to plan and be ready to receive and re-employ our overseas labor force. We should be doing the worst case planning now as the Yemen war grows our citizens could end up being under direct fire. The western world to control the Middle East more need an Iran/China war and Pakistan will be consequently sucked in as India will be one of the major pawns. That is why the TRIPC (Turkey, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and China) alliance is of more importance and higher value and a powerful option for economic prosperity and viable peace. Pakistan gov has finally realised the reality of the US "cold war " with China and the seriousness of the position it puts Pakistan into. Imran Khan's quest for mediation between US and China will fail, attempts will be made to impose malleable government in Pakistan which will be used as a pawn against China. So we can expect political turmoil in Pakistan, riots on the streets and the Pakistan army once again distracted into politics and perhaps Martial Law.

 

[R2D2]

Sir Firstly who are THEY who came after bosnains? it was the Serbians backed by Russia who Massacred the Bosnian Muslims not American French British etc. It was the chaos of Breakup of Yugoslavia After death of Tito no one was able to lead the country and it fell into chaos. Ethnic tentions rose to peak. What happened in bosnia was the culmination of tentions dated back to ottoman times in this region. You know how we stupidly sow seeds of hatred and our generations have to bear the fruits of it. Same BS that Hindu Extremists try to emulate these days.
It was a very cruel massacre by serbs. And All the criticism made on NATO in this regard is their delayed action which caused so much innocent Muslim deaths. They did bombed Serb forces to stop them eventually.
That Massacre is more of a fault of the fallout of Communist states and had nothing to do with west.

And secondly i am not an American neither i speak for American or Nato Wars or Policies. I am a Pakistani and my Only concern is the crap fed by our Governments to our public for decades to get us Alligned and Inline to a force fed ideology that suits their Failed Policies. I just want my Fellow Countrymen to think and see things clearly. America is a super Power. It has it claws in whole world from Pacific conflicts to Eastern Europe to Subcontinent etc. We cant help it or fight it. We dont need to be party of this super power business. we are a regional power with struggling economy. Cooperate with them where we can and avoid any conflict of Interest as much as we can. Stay away from the behemoths of USA and China Politically.
Point is there is no Boogeyman , There is no us vs them. As far as Duty of being Muslims. Look around your society first. Its total BS. Haramkhori is norm , Mental torturing everyone who is under you by simply not cooperating is a norm , State dont gives a S*** about Elderly , No medical Insurance for poor , Lying cheating is Socially accepted if it fetches money , Child rape is common , Islamic Jurispudence are laughed at by social norms such as multiple merriages to younger girls after your wife get old with you , and how powerfull people simply coerce weaker people to take their case back in Mudai/Prosicution entitlement according to sharia , Murder is casual pep talk. Everyone Judges everyone around them. Its a mental Prison. Judiciary is a joke. Police are thugs. businessmen are above societal norms. Rulers are overlords.Army Guys Call us Bloody Civilians. Civil Beurocrats are a makhluuq from another universe who cant sneeze without protocol. A circus of chaos
How dare we even call our self Muslim country? Do we even know what that means?.Brother fight for an Islamic sociery first. then think about Political Islam amd HELPING other muslim countries(If that concept is even existent).
Truth is the real THEY are the Gang that is running Pakistan. Who cook all this BS crap just to keel us sheep in line so that they may enjoy and we suffer.

Sir, thanks for you words of experience and wisdom. Struggle for purity as Islamic Society and Politics or Military and economic might go hand in hand as they are inter-related. Different departments of the society have different historical back grounds giving rise to different mindsets such as Judiciary, Bureaucracy and Army. We must be engaged with all of them so as to guide and learn from them as well as they have their own perspective. We have professional public servants with declined performance who can be improved personally and collectively. Other than that there is the option to fire all of them and start with fresh material which is not possible. This has been done recently in Afghanistan as ANA just went home after the US defeat. However, we in Pakistan must evolve together which is the peaceful solution.

 

[.King.]

If you havent already realised, religion based groups usually fail rather badly. If its an MU, it will have iran too. And going by the posts here, it does not seem you guys will be very happy with that.

 

[R2D2]

Would have been a good idea a few decades ago but foolish Arabs are taking the region into chaos they will sink us with them. Colonialists are interfering big time and we can see more flames in the region. If Iran goes Nuclear soon we may see change in the future but at the moment the pieces are being set and the game being played to neutralise Iran, and soon after Pakistan will be the major focus and consequently we could see the fall of Makkah and Medina, for that is the ultimate goal.

In the current business model, many organizations outsource business processes to other organizations because they want to concentrate on their core business to service providers who have specialty or some other cost edge like cheap manpower. For example, companies in USA outsource their accounting functions or call centers to service providers in Pakistan, India and Philippines.

Similarly in the military field, Black Water is getting outsourced projects for protection of military bases from the US Army. Eric Prince was trying to get contract for the whole Afghanistan once the US forces left.

Pakistan Army can also offer its Security Services to the weak countries in the Middle East. Israel is already one step ahead in this game. The benefit would be that Pakistani soldier's salaries would be paid by foreign governments. In the past too Pak Army has served in Saudi Arabia and as Blue Helmets for the UN. Pakistani Baloch are already working in Police and Army in UAE.

But now this will have to be done on a outsourced security business model.