Hack-Hook
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the artabic roots are not Fatiha its Fat'h or فتح
Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions
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Mehdipersian
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Fattah original meaning is "way opener"
This missile can open the way for other missiles.
And religious meaning is this missile can open the way for believers.
Also we can translate it to "bringer of victory "
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jauk
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Phat fingered. Corrected.
Dimensions
Although fattah is similar in shape and range to Kheibar Shekan, there are some interesting differences in its approximate dimensions.
The exact dimensions of the *fattah are not published and may vary by a few centimeters in diameter.
Diameter: 0.8m Length: 10.5m Warhead length: 2.4m First stage length: 8.1m Kheibar Shekan
Diameter: 0.7m Length: 11.4m Warhead length: 3.6m First stage length: 7.8m fattah
The fattah is a more elongated version of the Kheibar Shekan, the missile on which it is based, in an attempt to reduce aerodynamic drag.
The overall volume of the missile has also been reduced to make it lighter.
The Kheibar Shekan is capable of accelerating warheads to a maximum speed of 3400 m/s (not burnout speed).
Size of the maneuverable reentry vehicle
Assuming that the mass of the orbital re-entry vehicle is 800 kg and the fuel is 160 kg based on the size of the engine, acceleration of 656 m/s is possible.
If the first stage can accelerate to 3400 m/s, it can reach Mach 12.
Since the volume of the first stage is smaller than that of Kheibar Shekan, this is a considerable technical challenge.
If the mass of the re-entry vehicle is 1000 kg, the acceleration of the first stage will be 3000 m/s at most, and the acceleration of the RV will be weak, so Mach 12 will be difficult no matter how much effort is made.
Change in expected impact position due to maneuvering
If the maneuvering re-entry vehicle is a mere warhead without an engine, the ballistic trajectory is calculated as follows. The engine ignition can move the projected impact position by up to 400-500 km.
This will cause a certain difficulty to the interceptor.
Although fattah is similar in shape and range to Kheibar Shekan, there are some interesting differences in its approximate dimensions.
The exact dimensions of the *fattah are not published and may vary by a few centimeters in diameter.
Diameter: 0.8m Length: 10.5m Warhead length: 2.4m First stage length: 8.1m Kheibar Shekan
Diameter: 0.7m Length: 11.4m Warhead length: 3.6m First stage length: 7.8m fattah
The fattah is a more elongated version of the Kheibar Shekan, the missile on which it is based, in an attempt to reduce aerodynamic drag.
The overall volume of the missile has also been reduced to make it lighter.
The Kheibar Shekan is capable of accelerating warheads to a maximum speed of 3400 m/s (not burnout speed).
Size of the maneuverable reentry vehicle
Assuming that the mass of the orbital re-entry vehicle is 800 kg and the fuel is 160 kg based on the size of the engine, acceleration of 656 m/s is possible.
If the first stage can accelerate to 3400 m/s, it can reach Mach 12.
Since the volume of the first stage is smaller than that of Kheibar Shekan, this is a considerable technical challenge.
If the mass of the re-entry vehicle is 1000 kg, the acceleration of the first stage will be 3000 m/s at most, and the acceleration of the RV will be weak, so Mach 12 will be difficult no matter how much effort is made.
Change in expected impact position due to maneuvering
If the maneuvering re-entry vehicle is a mere warhead without an engine, the ballistic trajectory is calculated as follows. The engine ignition can move the projected impact position by up to 400-500 km.
This will cause a certain difficulty to the interceptor.
lydian fall
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Philosopher
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Arrow-4 is still in the development phase, it remains to be seen if it would be able to do much against these missiles, I'd say it won't offer much. As for THAAD, indeed it only has minimal chance of intercepting Fattah. It would be quite situational and even then they would have to get lucky.
Even if today Iran's enemies could have had a more than minimal chance of intercepting these missiles, it is also a numbers game. Iran would simply overwhelm these defences anyway.
Iran's enemies will not be able to field anything that can reliably (on paper) deal with systems like Fattah for at least the next 10 years. By which time, you can only imagine how much Iran's missiles would have advanced.
In this game of catch up, Iran's enemies are so far behind that I'd say they're wasting their time & money trying to create these defences. They would have been much better off focusing their resources on their own offensive hypersonic capabilities.
Even if today Iran's enemies could have had a more than minimal chance of intercepting these missiles, it is also a numbers game. Iran would simply overwhelm these defences anyway.
Iran's enemies will not be able to field anything that can reliably (on paper) deal with systems like Fattah for at least the next 10 years. By which time, you can only imagine how much Iran's missiles would have advanced.
In this game of catch up, Iran's enemies are so far behind that I'd say they're wasting their time & money trying to create these defences. They would have been much better off focusing their resources on their own offensive hypersonic capabilities.
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Messerschmitt
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Philosopher
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...To the skeptics out there.
It has been announced that fattah will ignite the RV detached from the first stage 400-500 km before the target to begin acceleration and evasive maneuvers.
Based on the capabilities of the first stage rocket, the RV would need to be launched in a minimum energy orbit to give it the necessary velocity to reach the 900-1000 km mark.
The ability to accelerate and carry a heavy RV to a given position at a given speed by means of a depressed orbit is not available to the smaller first stage rocket.
This allows the RV to reach an altitude of over 200 km at apogee, and at engine startup, the RV is descending at a considerable downward angle (about 36 degrees) at an altitude of 60 km.
From this point, a pull-up is required to fly more than 400 km.
The descent is so fast that even if the engines were ignited and the TVC used all the fuel to correct the trajectory, it is immediately clear that reaching 500 km is not possible.
A pull-up with lift in the atmosphere is required, and assuming the authorities are correct, fattah clearly has hypersonic maneuverability.
If the engines are ignited before the descent is initiated, does it not have to be maneuverable?
This opinion is valid, but in that case, engine ignition would be required long before the target has been reached,
This would be inconsistent with the announced ignition timing, and there would obviously be no fuel left at the time of atmospheric entry.
For those of you who think that Iran does not have the capability to orbit the RV in the atmosphere at hypersonic speeds, I have a good suggestion.
In that case, the capabilities required for a first stage rocket are much higher.
Even though the rocket has been downsized from Khyber Shikan's 80cm diameter to 70cm,
the same warhead, the fattah would significantly outperform it in terms of range.
It is a great innovation.
It has been announced that fattah will ignite the RV detached from the first stage 400-500 km before the target to begin acceleration and evasive maneuvers.
Based on the capabilities of the first stage rocket, the RV would need to be launched in a minimum energy orbit to give it the necessary velocity to reach the 900-1000 km mark.
The ability to accelerate and carry a heavy RV to a given position at a given speed by means of a depressed orbit is not available to the smaller first stage rocket.
This allows the RV to reach an altitude of over 200 km at apogee, and at engine startup, the RV is descending at a considerable downward angle (about 36 degrees) at an altitude of 60 km.
From this point, a pull-up is required to fly more than 400 km.
The descent is so fast that even if the engines were ignited and the TVC used all the fuel to correct the trajectory, it is immediately clear that reaching 500 km is not possible.
A pull-up with lift in the atmosphere is required, and assuming the authorities are correct, fattah clearly has hypersonic maneuverability.
If the engines are ignited before the descent is initiated, does it not have to be maneuverable?
This opinion is valid, but in that case, engine ignition would be required long before the target has been reached,
This would be inconsistent with the announced ignition timing, and there would obviously be no fuel left at the time of atmospheric entry.
For those of you who think that Iran does not have the capability to orbit the RV in the atmosphere at hypersonic speeds, I have a good suggestion.
In that case, the capabilities required for a first stage rocket are much higher.
Even though the rocket has been downsized from Khyber Shikan's 80cm diameter to 70cm,
the same warhead, the fattah would significantly outperform it in terms of range.
It is a great innovation.
Mehdipersian
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Last edited:
This test was conducted twice on 1/5 and 1/11 and has been corrected to be more accurate.
North Korea is testing a hypersonic missile similar in shape to Iran's fattah in the Sea of Japan in January 2022.
South Korea analysis indicates that this is a MarV of the same separation type as the fattah.
The diameter of the warhead is estimated to be about 50 cm, smaller than that of the fattah, which is less than 70 cm, and not identical, but technically very similar.
The 1/5 launch flew at Mach 6 over a horizontal distance of 700 km at a maximum altitude of less than 50 km.
In the 1/11 launch, it flew 1000 km at a maximum altitude of 60 km at around Mach 10.
The missile flew on a very low trajectory of less than 50 km for the first 600 km,
After separating at 600 km, the MarV pulled up and made a 240 km turn while climbing again.
Glide distance is 400 km,Based on the trajectory, estimate a speed of Mach 6-7 or better..
The acceleration of the turn is estimated to be about 1.5G. Such a turn is impossible without gliding through the atmosphere using lift.
For example, even if a maneuver with a TVC that consumes a lot of fuel is performed with an engine similar to that of the fattah, the fuel will be depleted.
The Japanese early warning radar, 600-700 km away, lost sight of the target due to this sharp turn, while the South Korea successfully tracked it but still lost sight of it at 700 km.
It cannot be a coincidence that two such technologically similar missiles appeared in two different countries at about the same time.
If fattah is equipped with similar technology, it is clear that it has the capability to maneuver at hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere.
It seems that those in the region who are less concerned about North Korea cooperating with Iran tend to underestimate Iranian technology.
I have witnessed several prominent accounts that are knowledgeable about Iran expressing a negative view of fattah's hypersonic maneuvering.
North Korea's hypersonic missiles
Flight paths of North Korean hypersonic missiles(1/11)
North Korea is testing a hypersonic missile similar in shape to Iran's fattah in the Sea of Japan in January 2022.
South Korea analysis indicates that this is a MarV of the same separation type as the fattah.
The diameter of the warhead is estimated to be about 50 cm, smaller than that of the fattah, which is less than 70 cm, and not identical, but technically very similar.
The 1/5 launch flew at Mach 6 over a horizontal distance of 700 km at a maximum altitude of less than 50 km.
In the 1/11 launch, it flew 1000 km at a maximum altitude of 60 km at around Mach 10.
The missile flew on a very low trajectory of less than 50 km for the first 600 km,
After separating at 600 km, the MarV pulled up and made a 240 km turn while climbing again.
Glide distance is 400 km,Based on the trajectory, estimate a speed of Mach 6-7 or better..
The acceleration of the turn is estimated to be about 1.5G. Such a turn is impossible without gliding through the atmosphere using lift.
For example, even if a maneuver with a TVC that consumes a lot of fuel is performed with an engine similar to that of the fattah, the fuel will be depleted.
The Japanese early warning radar, 600-700 km away, lost sight of the target due to this sharp turn, while the South Korea successfully tracked it but still lost sight of it at 700 km.
It cannot be a coincidence that two such technologically similar missiles appeared in two different countries at about the same time.
If fattah is equipped with similar technology, it is clear that it has the capability to maneuver at hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere.
It seems that those in the region who are less concerned about North Korea cooperating with Iran tend to underestimate Iranian technology.
I have witnessed several prominent accounts that are knowledgeable about Iran expressing a negative view of fattah's hypersonic maneuvering.
North Korea's hypersonic missiles
Flight paths of North Korean hypersonic missiles(1/11)
Last edited:
Hack-Hook
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interesting that Japan radar lost track of the missile while it was maneuvering while S. Korea one managed to keep tracking it , you expect it to be the other way around as it was nearer to Japan when the maneuvering start .North Korea is testing a hypersonic missile similar in shape to Iran's fattah in the Sea of Japan in January 2022.
South Korea analysis indicates that this is a MarV of the same separation type as the fattah.
The diameter of the warhead is estimated to be about 50 cm, smaller than that of the fattah, which is less than 70 cm, and not identical, but technically very similar.
It flew at Mach 6 over a horizontal distance of 700 km at a maximum altitude of less than 50 km.
The missile flew on a very low trajectory of less than 50 km for the first 600 km,
After separating at 600 km, the MarV pulled up and made a 240 km turn while climbing again.
The acceleration of the turn is estimated to be about 1 G. Such a turn is impossible without gliding through the atmosphere using lift.
For example, even if a maneuver with a TVC that consumes a lot of fuel is performed with an engine similar to that of the fattah, the fuel will be depleted.
Japanese early warning radar at a distance of 600-700 km lost the target due to this sharp turn, while the South Korea successfully tracked it.
It cannot be a coincidence that two such technologically similar missiles appeared in two different countries at about the same time.
If fattah is equipped with similar technology, it is clear that it has the capability to maneuver at hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere.
It seems that those in the region who are less concerned about North Korea cooperating with Iran tend to underestimate Iranian technology.
I have witnessed several prominent accounts that are knowledgeable about Iran expressing a negative view of fattah's hypersonic maneuvering.
North Korea's hypersonic missiles
Flight paths of North Korean hypersonic missiles
View attachment 934578
that aside it show the importance of network of radars which are spread around not just some radar in one area when it come to air defense
Mehdipersian
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Its look like Chinese missiles.North Korea is testing a hypersonic missile similar in shape to Iran's fattah in the Sea of Japan in January 2022.
South Korea analysis indicates that this is a MarV of the same separation type as the fattah.
The diameter of the warhead is estimated to be about 50 cm, smaller than that of the fattah, which is less than 70 cm, and not identical, but technically very similar.
It flew at Mach 6 over a horizontal distance of 700 km at a maximum altitude of less than 50 km.
The missile flew on a very low trajectory of less than 50 km for the first 600 km,
After separating at 600 km, the MarV pulled up and made a 240 km turn while climbing again.
The acceleration of the turn is estimated to be about 1 G. Such a turn is impossible without gliding through the atmosphere using lift.
For example, even if a maneuver with a TVC that consumes a lot of fuel is performed with an engine similar to that of the fattah, the fuel will be depleted.
Japanese early warning radar at a distance of 600-700 km lost the target due to this sharp turn, while the South Korea successfully tracked it.
It cannot be a coincidence that two such technologically similar missiles appeared in two different countries at about the same time.
If fattah is equipped with similar technology, it is clear that it has the capability to maneuver at hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere.
It seems that those in the region who are less concerned about North Korea cooperating with Iran tend to underestimate Iranian technology.
I have witnessed several prominent accounts that are knowledgeable about Iran expressing a negative view of fattah's hypersonic maneuvering.
North Korea's hypersonic missiles
Flight paths of North Korean hypersonic missiles
View attachment 934578
Its not similar to fateh familiy
Messerschmitt
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How are they 'technically similar'? I don't see these similarities honestly. If we compare their shape, the nosetip angle on Fattah's RV indicates higher (terminal) speed than the North Korean RV. Actually, the North Korean RV resembles Pershing-II's RV much more than Fattah's RV:North Korea is testing a hypersonic missile similar in shape to Iran's fattah in the Sea of Japan in January 2022.
South Korea analysis indicates that this is a MarV of the same separation type as the fattah.
The diameter of the warhead is estimated to be about 50 cm, smaller than that of the fattah, which is less than 70 cm, and not identical, but technically very similar.
It flew at Mach 6 over a horizontal distance of 700 km at a maximum altitude of less than 50 km.
The missile flew on a very low trajectory of less than 50 km for the first 600 km,
After separating at 600 km, the MarV pulled up and made a 240 km turn while climbing again.
The acceleration of the turn is estimated to be about 1 G. Such a turn is impossible without gliding through the atmosphere using lift.
For example, even if a maneuver with a TVC that consumes a lot of fuel is performed with an engine similar to that of the fattah, the fuel will be depleted.
Japanese early warning radar at a distance of 600-700 km lost the target due to this sharp turn, while the South Korea successfully tracked it.
It cannot be a coincidence that two such technologically similar missiles appeared in two different countries at about the same time.
If fattah is equipped with similar technology, it is clear that it has the capability to maneuver at hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere.
It seems that those in the region who are less concerned about North Korea cooperating with Iran tend to underestimate Iranian technology.
I have witnessed several prominent accounts that are knowledgeable about Iran expressing a negative view of fattah's hypersonic maneuvering.
North Korea's hypersonic missiles
Flight paths of North Korean hypersonic missiles
View attachment 934578
^ North Korean RV
^ Pershing II RV
^ Fattah RV
Fattah's RV has its own TVC motor to maintain higher speed and maneuver in the upper atmosphere, whereas the North Korean RV uses its high L/D-ratio to maneuver while bleeding more energy (decreasing speed). Very different designs and approaches. One is basically a high-performance MaRV optimized for sustained hypersonic flight (Fattah) while the other is a high-lift MaRV/HGV optimized for maneuverability.
Syrian anti-aircraft missile explodes over Israel as IAF said to strike in Homs
After an S-200 fired by Syrian forces in response to Israeli bombing of Homs lost its target,
After losing sight of its target, the S-200 flew over the Golan Heights and blew itself up, landing a large piece of debris in Rahat in southern Israel.
Israel's vaunted air defense network was useless against the S-200, which entered 230 km from the border.
The S-200 has a maximum speed of Mach 8, but only at high altitude.
The S-200 does not have the ability to fly at hypersonic speeds through the atmosphere, and compared to the Fattah, it is a slower target and more easily caught by radar.
It is an event that proves the effectiveness of hypersonic missiles by accident.
After an S-200 fired by Syrian forces in response to Israeli bombing of Homs lost its target,
After losing sight of its target, the S-200 flew over the Golan Heights and blew itself up, landing a large piece of debris in Rahat in southern Israel.
Israel's vaunted air defense network was useless against the S-200, which entered 230 km from the border.
The S-200 has a maximum speed of Mach 8, but only at high altitude.
The S-200 does not have the ability to fly at hypersonic speeds through the atmosphere, and compared to the Fattah, it is a slower target and more easily caught by radar.
It is an event that proves the effectiveness of hypersonic missiles by accident.
