Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[Hack-Hook]

US state dept already has put on a display showing Missile fired by houthis that bore Iranian defense manufacturer/org's logo. They also showed drones that Houthis used that were of Iranian origin. You are blind on this issue..cant see the truth even if it was in your face..interesting.

You mean those derbies they took from Syria and claimed they found in KSA but later it proven what they showed were part of 2-3 missile that they put beside each other.

US state dept already has put on a display showing Missile fired by houthis that bore Iranian defense manufacturer/org's logo. They also showed drones that Houthis used that were of Iranian origin. You are blind on this issue..cant see the truth even if it was in your face..interesting.

Drones looked similar but building those drones is not nuclear science they can do it in any workshop also we exported those drones to many places they may get their hands on one and start copying them.

 

[PeeD]

The Qods or Ya-Ali looks great, a small calculation with the information available showed me that it's range could be Soumars 700km while still delivering a quite heavy 300kg warhead.

A incredibly efficient looking design.

 

[TheImmortal]

The Qods or Ya-Ali looks great, a small calculation with the information available showed me that it's range could be Soumars 700km while still delivering a quite heavy 300kg warhead.

A incredibly efficient looking design.

Except there is no way it was carrying a 300KG warhead based on the released Saudi Arabia CCTV footage. The explosion looks relatively weak.

Makes me wonder if warhead size was reduced to allow for greater distance and if the engine (export version?) Houthis are using is not as powerful.

Though wasn’t the distance traveled less than 250KM?

Something doesn’t add up there.

 

[PeeD]

Except there is no way it was carrying a 300KG warhead based on the released Saudi Arabia CCTV footage. The explosion looks relatively weak.

Makes me wonder if warhead size was reduced to allow for greater distance and if the engine (export version?) Houthis are using is not as powerful.

Though wasn’t the distance traveled less than 250KM?

Something doesn’t add up there.

I did a scaling analysis to come to those numbers.
One feature of scaling calculation is that it expects the same technology level as the original scale (Kh-55).

So 700km range @ 200-300kg payload is for a missile built at the tech. level of the Kh-55.
If it is worse due to lower capability, lower cost goal or import limitations then the numbers shrink down.

The key point here is however the possibilities this engine and Irans CM technology offers today and it what cost.

Tomahawk/Kh-55 deliver 400-450kg payload to 2500km and weight around 1300kg.
Both use complex and expensive turbofans.

The Qods/Ya-Ali-2 delivers a 200-300kg payload to 700km, weight 1/3 (airframe materials) and uses a very simple, inexpensive turbojet.

Given that many of Irans threats are within that range, it looks sufficiently economic to compete with Fateh series of BMs.
Even better: With high technology-level of Kh-55, Iran could develop a 1200km Israel-range version that still delivers a 200kg warhead. That's what scale calculations tell.

Many times I did question here the economic value a CM arsenal would make for Iran in light of its efficient BM arsenal. But with this technology approach and level of avionic miniaturization (beyond Kh-55 level).

Just one aspect to put things into perspective: The heart of the missile, its engine, is a single stage design while the Kh-55 needs a 9-stage turbofan...

One direct implication is that the Nasir AshM is not just a miniaturized Noor in terms of range, but rather a Qadr or Qadir with probably 180-250km range. Amazing performance for such a small and cheap AshM.

 

[TheImmortal]

I did a scaling analysis to come to those numbers.
One feature of scaling calculation is that it expects the same technology level as the original scale (Kh-55).

So 700km range @ 200-300kg payload is for a missile built at the tech. level of the Kh-55.
If it is worse due to lower capability, lower cost goal or import limitations then the numbers shrink down.

The key point here is however the possibilities this engine and Irans CM technology offers today and it what cost.

Tomahawk/Kh-55 deliver 400-450kg payload to 2500km and weight around 1300kg.
Both use complex and expensive turbofans.

The Qods/Ya-Ali-2 delivers a 200-300kg payload to 700km, weight 1/3 (airframe materials) and uses a very simple, inexpensive turbojet.

Given that many of Irans threats are within that range, it looks sufficiently economic to compete with Fateh series of BMs.
Even better: With high technology-level of Kh-55, Iran could develop a 1200km Israel-range version that still delivers a 200kg warhead. That's what scale calculations tell.

Many times I did question here the economic value a CM arsenal would make for Iran in light of its efficient BM arsenal. But with this technology approach and level of avionic miniaturization (beyond Kh-55 level).

Just one aspect to put things into perspective: The heart of the missile, its engine, is a single stage design while the Kh-55 needs a 9-stage turbofan...

One direct implication is that the Nasir AshM is not just a miniaturized Noor in terms of range, but rather a Qadr or Qadir with probably 180-250km range. Amazing performance for such a small and cheap AshM.

I thought earlier you said that Iran cannot reliably build a KH-55 tech level engine. At least not cost efficiently. Hence why we saw the Soumar “drop” down engine be replaced with a static fixed engine in follow up Variant Hoveyzeh.

So now Iran somehow managed to take a Kh-55 tech level engine and scale it to Ya-Ali?

I’m a bit skeptical. Iran has had ample opportunities to use these for testing in Syria or Kurdistan and has not.

 

[PeeD]

I thought earlier you said that Iran cannot reliably build a KH-55 tech level engine. At least not cost efficiently. Hence why we saw the Soumar “drop” down engine be replaced with a static fixed engine in follow up Variant Hoveyzeh.

So now Iran somehow managed to take a Kh-55 tech level engine and scale it to Ya-Ali?

I’m a bit skeptical. Iran has had ample opportunities to use these for testing in Syria or Kurdistan and has not.

What I said is still true: Iran has not yet shown a equivalent to the Kh-55 engine, a complex 9 stage turbofan.
The Qods/Ya-Ali-2 has a different engine, see Saudi claims.
Iran has mastered miniaturization to get following system benefits/penalties:
- Weight reduction of weapon system of 66%
- Payload reduction of 50%
- range reduction of 50%
- Engine design reduced from turbofan to turbojet
- Engine compressor stages reduced from 9 to 1
- Certainly cheaper avionic system components with significantly reduced weight.

So that's the trade-off situation. It can be credibly assumed that overall system cost has reduced by at least 50%, I would predict 75%.
So for each Kh-55 Iran can get 4 Qods/Ya-Ali-2 @ half the range and half the payload.
That starts to get very cost efficient.

However if Iran wants an equivalent to the Kh-55SM and Kh-555 with a range to strike all of Europe, it would need to switch to the complex Kh-55 turbofan.

The Howeyzeh already uses a larger, more complex and expensive technology approach to cover all of Israel with a heavier payload. That "Ya-Ali-3" predicted by my calculations may still be beyond Irans miniaturization capabilities, but technically so feasible that Iran will certainly pursue it.

The significance is quite high: With that cost-level it can seriously contest fighter-based airpower at mid-to-high threat situations.

I’m a bit skeptical. Iran has had ample opportunities to use these for testing in Syria or Kurdistan and has not.

Many systems are tested in covert operations. There is a track record for this in Iran.

 

[925boy]

You mean those derbies they took from Syria and claimed they found in KSA but later it proven what they showed were part of 2-3 missile that they put beside each other.

Can you show us the evidence those debris came from Syria? Tbh, i dont believe Iran has fired that type of Missile US state dept put on display from Saudi Arabia into Syria.

Drones looked similar but building those drones is not nuclear science they can do it in any workshop also we exported those drones to many places they may get their hands on one and start copying them.

false. then why cant many more countries make drones? most of ME cant make these drones either. You already know Iran is a top 5 or 6 drone maker in the world, its obviously not an easily attainable skill. Even Iran leads Russia in drones now, so NO, there is no way a Yemen that didnt have drones before the way, will end up "self-manufacturing" simple looking but complex drones after their country and manufacturing base has been destroyed by Saudis air force. It doesnt add up. and suicide drones? in large #s? How the F did Houthis fire that cruise missile at UAE's airport that missed? Yemen has never shown those capabilities before so they couldnt have just gotten it all of a sudden. u must believe in miracles..

 

[Hack-Hook]

Can you show us the evidence those debris came from Syria? Tbh, i dont believe Iran has fired that type of Missile US state dept put on display from Saudi Arabia into Syria.

we had fired two of the same exact type of missile into Syria just weeks before

false. then why cant many more countries make drones? most of ME cant make these drones either.

they can buy it cheaper from Amazon , we have sophisticated drone that not everybody can build and also we have primitive ones that they can build in their garage , those suicide drones can be built in garages , something like Mohajer - 6 or Shahed - 129 can't be built
This one is built by a high school

this one is #D Printed by one guy in Mashhad

 

[925boy]

we had fired two of the same exact type of missile into Syria just weeks before

Are you sure? please show me pics of the ones you fired in SYria and i will find the ones US displayed and compare.

they can buy it cheaper from Amazon , we have sophisticated drone that not everybody can build and also we have primitive ones that they can build in their garage , those suicide drones can be built in garages ,

if this is the case why dont most of the world militaries that cant make drones BUY THEM FROM amazon? huuh?

This one is built by a high school

this one is #D Printed by one guy in Mashhad

Do you mean actually built or just designed? And which engines are these drones using? Just because high schoolers can make aircraft like these that look like drones does not mean these are good drones for military use.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Are you sure? please show me pics of the ones you fired in SYria and i will find the ones US displayed and compare.


if this is the case why dont most of the world militaries that cant make drones BUY THEM FROM amazon? huuh?


Do you mean actually built or just designed? And which engines are these drones using? Just because high schoolers can make aircraft like these that look like drones does not mean these are good drones for military use.

the video of the missile launch was put hثre in the forum and according to Fars News in Moharram Strike (ضربت محرم) Operation we fired two Qiam and several Zolfaqar into syria and this is Qiam

here you can find a video of firing the missiles
http://www.iribnews.ir/fa/news/2240728/سرنوشت-دشمنِ-ایران-و-ایرانی

Do you mean actually built or just designed? And which engines are these drones using? Just because high schoolers can make aircraft like these that look like drones does not mean these are good drones for military use.

they claim they built it its a video
https://www.aparat.com/v/2PQLF/پهپاد_ساحرساخته_شده_توسط_دانش_آموزان_دبیرستان_علامه_حلی

by the way a uav is a robot and a suicide uav is not that sophisticated , if you go and look at the robocop competition you see the students are building robots that these suicide drone are nothing compared to them

 

[Ich]

Yes, onla a handful countries can make Drones...oh, wait...

 

[Russel]

IRGC launched precision strike on Iraqi Kurdistan near Iran border.
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019...er-with-Iraqi-Kurdistan-inflicts-heavy-losses

 

[Smarana Mitra]

You're clueless obviously. I have posted a picture showing different honeycomb systems that can be used as RAM. You're just talking out of your behind.

Honey comb structure is for rigidity of composite airframe and is internal to the airframe. How can you call that as stealth? Composite usage does reduce RCS but it is not stealth. It serves dual purpose of reducing weight and RCS. But it has no special effort to increase stealth.

RAM is placed outside the airframe, not inside as you have shown those internal honeycomb. Why would anyone think that honey comb is stealth Technology? Nowadays, some tyres of high end vehicles or bullet proof tyres also use honeycomb Technology to give extra structural strength to withstand punctures.

So you say F-15 was an inefficient design and no longer in use ?
Well I only can disagree with you

Does F15 fly above 15km (52000 feet)? It can fly at 15km or in slight periphery above it but definitely not significantly above it.

Debries is in our hand not you then how you knew it won't use stealth technologies.
By the way even here they say they used techniques to reduce heat and radar signature of the plane

The composite usage reduces radar signature and heat but that doesn't make it stealth. You can not simply call any non metallic airframe as stealth Technology. Stealth is when there is design to cause stealth

false. then why cant many more countries make drones? most of ME cant make these drones either.

Countries like Pakistan, Turkey also make drones. The ME countries are lazy to do any work at all. ME countries like Saudi Arabia, UAE etc don't even make cycles. This hasn't got anything to do with complicated Technology.

 

[Hack-Hook]

It serves dual purpose of reducing weight and RCS. But it has no special effort to increase stealth.

well, by definition reducing RCS means increasing stealth

RAM is placed outside the airframe, not inside as you have shown those internal honeycomb. Why would anyone think that honey comb is stealth Technology? Nowadays, some tyres of high end vehicles or bullet proof tyres also use honeycomb Technology to give extra structural strength to withstand punctures.

it can applied outside or even in constructing those honeycombs or both
https://assets.cambridge.org/97811070/92617/excerpt/9781107092617_excerpt.pdf

Does F15 fly above 15km (52000 feet)? It can fly at 15km or in slight periphery above it but definitely not significantly above it.

ig you did some research you knew that f-15 can fly well above that , it can easily fly at 20km even higher , so please in your attampt to compare 3rd of Khordad with your Akash airdefence and claim they have same capabilites plese don't insult F-15 it has a record of 103000 feet

The composite usage reduces radar signature and heat but that doesn't make it stealth. You can not simply call any non metallic airframe as stealth Technology. Stealth is when there is design to cause stealth

you must go and talk with gambit ,he can tell you that your definition of stealth is wrong.

 

[PeeD]

Frank answers from Uzi Rubin here.

His take on missile vs. airpower is basically what I preached for years and got much opposition for it.
Many of his Israeli and western friends made fun of Irans BM approach but this phase is over as he openly speaks about admiring Irans defense approach.

Important points:
- Deterrence without nuclear warheads via precision strike BMs in massive numbers
- Iran's cost efficient warfare --> don't use own airforce in Syria but get Russians in
- Iran's avoidance to get into the airpower game (IRIAF - Su-30 trap) --> "conventional airpower is something from WWII"
- ABM systems have great problems with hypersonic weapons (of which at least the Zolfaghar/Dezful BM is an early (high supersonic" representative).
- Smart and admirable minds behind Irans defense decision making.

Thanks to baradarane militaryIR for finding it.

The truth is, Iran's leader Khamenei was basically behind it and the motivation was "the impossibel": Enable military confrontation with the remaining superpower of the planet. Every step the decision makers made formed the basis on what Iran can do today. Every avoidance of a wrong path or investment was vital to get here where Iran is today. Viewing Irans threat potential of post-war 1988 and today shows the incredible distance left behind.
I guess like Rubin I found it impossible for Iran to reach this capability against the U.S back until the mid-2000's.