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India Ahead : How will PAF counter IAF - FGFA/PAKFA ?

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Recently after 26/11 surgical strikes were quite eminent, if india would have had the PAK-FA, it would be the most precise weapon for such purpose.

The "Nuke" option is a suicide as India wont strike first.
The time has come that Pakistani Thinkers realize that no longer "Nukes are One medicine against all ailments".

How will F16s face PAKFAs when they wont be able to track them?
 
Recently after 26/11 surgical strikes were quite eminent, if india would have had the PAK-FA, it would be the most precise weapon for such purpose.

The "Nuke" option is a suicide as India wont strike first.
The time has come that Pakistani Thinkers realize that no longer "Nukes are One medicine against all ailments".

How will F16s face PAKFAs when they wont be able to track them?
Let us suppose you had PAKFA after 26/11 and you sent it for "surgical strikes". Do you think the retaliation will only be in Air. Anyway as per india we still have those camps working. So when should i expect the delivery for PAKFA after you get it. The next day or that very day. Because F 16 wont be able to lock it in its radar.
 
Let us suppose you had PAKFA after 26/11 and you sent it for "surgical strikes". Do you think the retaliation will only be in Air. Anyway as per india we still have those camps working. So when should i expect the delivery for PAKFA after you get it. The next day or that very day. Because F 16 wont be able to lock it in its radar.

When You see Pak Fa distroying Your Vital Installations, You cannot order your army to "Bring that Bloody Aircraft Down" You have to either Use F-16 or Sams, both are useless against Pak FA.
 
duds first of all remember pakistan or any other country in similar situation ll look for solutions maby we do or donot know them maybe we tend to counter ur stealth with UCAVS ,jamming or any new kind of missles maybe we r developing a stealth AC who knows these things r mostly hidden well and just like out of no where when we did our nuke test we can be building any of the above system we r no idiots to let india getting upper hand there is always a solution being worked on in PA remember we anticipate indian progress to keep minimum detterence
 
China may get Fifth Gen Fighters more or less in witin 5 Years after India get PAKFA.
But, The Topic is about Pakistan NOT China.
Agreed that PAF will get JXX but not before 2030.

As i had said in my opening post - How many $100 Million Plane Fighters can Pakistan Afford to match 500 Indian Fifth gen Fighters. ?

India won't be getting 500 5th Gen planes, more like 200.

Russia will start inducting PAKFA between 2013 and 2015, with mass production about two years after.

India will start inducting FGFA around 2018, but who knows how long it will take to reach full production.

China is due to test fly J-XX in 2010, and plans to induct between 2015 and 2018 at the earliest.

If-Then-Else wont help here. I dont see how PAF might get S-300/400 and even if they get it the Steallth Fighter gets the name for a reason - "Its Hard to Detect" .

Ask ur self can "Highly Able" 4th gen Fighters Match the "invisible" and Technologically a generation ahead Fighters ?

As I said before, PAK-FA probably won't be a true stealth plane at the level that F-22 and F-35 are.

Most estimates put the RCS at ~0.5m2. Sukhoi estimtates the RCS to be 40 times less than the MKI (which has an RCS of 20m2), putting it <1m2.

Well, even advanced F-16's have an RCS of ~1m2 and some advanced 4.5 Gen fighters have less than 1m2.

The PAK-FA won't be "invisble" - not even the F-22 is "invisible".
Low frequency radar and Infrared can be used to track stealth aircraft but targetting is much harder.

Remember, a true stealth aircraft like the F-117 was shot down in Yougoslavia in 1999, that was over 10 years ago. Given the advances in SAM and radar since then, who knows how a less stealthier aircraft (PAK-FA) will fair against advanced SAMs.

Also, it's worth noting that the PAK-FA prototype didn't demonstrate any 5th Generation engines or avionics. It was basically 4.5 Gen technology stuck onto a stealthy body.
 
When You see Pak Fa distroying Your Vital Installations, You cannot order your army to "Bring that Bloody Aircraft Down" You have to either Use F-16 or Sams, both are useless against Pak FA.
Yeah....Ok....Thats why i am asking. When should i expect the delivery. :)
 
Here is how:

1) In a limited conventional scenario the FGFA or any planned IAF induction cannot impact the PAF sufficiently for the PAF to be unable to do its job. This would only happen if the PAF were reduced to the point of being incapable of carrying out its operations, and that situation would not be consistent with a limited conventional scenario. You would basically be talking about FGFA/IAF aircraft destroying the PAF in the sky or on the ground... this, under no definition of the term, would be a "limited" scenario. Therefore, in case 1, the FGFA does not lead to a different outcome of the Indo-Pak engagement.

2) In a total war scenario, much before the PAF is eliminated the nuclear threshold would have been crossed. In that case, to more directly answer your question, yes, Pakistan's first use policy would come into play and the Sub-continent would be reduced to ash. FGFA or Mig-21, they would all end up as the same radioactive lumps of disfigured metal.

3) In a very limited Kargil or Siachen like scenario, air power will have such a limited role that the capabilities of the FGFA will not really come into play. So no real value here either.

Thank god at last i got an answer...Thank you Tech Lahore Sir...Otherwise all i was hearing was fanboy statements...If you don't mind i have some counter questions....

1) Sir i cannot vouch for how good/bad FGFA would be because the specs are not yet out...However ruskies do come up with good planes...

All i know is that kill ratio of F22 vs MKI would be 99:1 if stealth is there....bcoz F22 would be firing its missile at the time when MKI would not have any clue that combat is ON.... Now with FGFA in picture i just don't get what counter measures would be taken to stop FGFA from entering Pak Air Space and pounding sensitive targets... Also how successful can be any PAF operations inside Indian Air Space??? Mind it i am not saying 5 generation planes are invisible but because of stealth and no true counter measure against them win probablity tilt towards them by a huge margin....

In short would it be true to say - where ever you would face FGFA there is a high probabilty that you will loose that particular battle...unless and until you have a good enough countermeasure??... All i am asking is what are those countermeasures...

P.S : I am insisting on this question because i strongly believe that there is no way PAF can let IAF increase parity between two forces that there is no point of return...

I honestly don't buy the argument that Nukes would be an answer to everything...

Here is my opinion - The only possible counter measure at that time is speedy induction of China's 5 generation Plane... PAF would have to wait till China come up with an alternate and hope it is good enough to challenge FGFA...Secondly economy needs to be good to back such inductions... FGFA is going to cost $100 million per Plane so inducting 5 generation plane is not easy....

2) I totally agree sir... Even if you look at controvertial doctorine of Indian Strategist aka Cold Start it gives an impression that every one is way clear that whatever be the strategy nuclear threshold should not cross... So i am of strong opinion that unless and until some rogue general take over this situation will not arise...

3) I do not agree with the third point of yours sir...Kargil was an eye opener and we all know how Israel helped change the results to India's favor...LGB had limited role to play but i am more than convinced that in future war of that kind Air Power will play a much bigger role than what they did in Kargil...However i must say FGFA would not be of any use since you don't need stealth to take on enemy without any Air Cover...


The only scenario in which you can build a strong case for the FGFA having a bearing on the war in a material way would be an extended conventional conflict in which both sides never cross the nuclear threshold. However, given the doctrines in place, this will not happen. Pakistan has developed its nuclear weapons to destroy its enemies if it is threatened seriously. Not to sit idly by in case the outcome of a large scale future war is going against it.

I am not in agreement with this as well Sir...If nuclear threshold is not crossed then why would a country use nukes to destroy her enemy and kill helself as well??? if there is no serious threat on the existence of Pakistan then i doubt there would be any use of nukes unless and until some rogue general thinks that his/her ego is more important than millions of human life..
 
When You see Pak Fa distroying Your Vital Installations, You cannot order your army to "Bring that Bloody Aircraft Down" You have to either Use F-16 or Sams, both are useless against Pak FA.

That is why we call it ,,, always aggressive thinking in mind of Indian ( Hindu to be precise ) to destroy Pakistan...
No point further ???? :hitwall:
 
That is why we call it ,,, always aggressive thinking in mind of Indian ( Hindu to be precise ) to destroy Pakistan...
No point further ???? :hitwall:

I would Like to show you some thing, Infact many things, but Please be satisfied with this...

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sir i never speak frm hart i look for reasons firstly u as a reasonable man shuld know that PA have a very large brain storm structure and once the threat of stealth fighters was seen they looked for a counter at first in shape of another fighter but once that didnt came up they had to look for alternatives ,heigh range sams r good against su30 but s**t against fgfa so something else and diverse had to be done and thats where turkish scientists gave an idea of jamming device which they were testing against small self radar guided missles and after 7 tests none of the missle achieved any success against the target this was a small step knowing those radars on missles were very weak but this gave idea to PA to do somthing same of course helpe frm china turky and france is comming and r&d is going on since a decad back innicially it was to but it showed better results on ground protecting heigh value targets ....yes a lot of revinue and recarch is needed but it is no fanticy or a lie


Well then good luck with it...As said i know there is lot of potential in South Asia and i am not one of those who say if US-Russia has not built it no one can...All i am saying is that there is no surety R&D would work...It takes lot of time and money with no surety of results...So i am doubtful PAF would depend on the results of those R&D's... Such things can be a parallel countermeasure but no way the ultimate one....
 
When You see Pak Fa distroying Your Vital Installations, You cannot order your army to "Bring that Bloody Aircraft Down" You have to either Use F-16 or Sams, both are useless against Pak FA.
Two solutions.
To acquire and destroy a target, the aircraft has to first reach the designation......
And while sitting on the ground, PAK-FA or any other stealthy machine is as visible as any aircraft.
 
The one thing which is most irritating is that we are talking about some thing which is at least a decade away. I have been reading this thread since yesterday and I have seen nothing but Indian grandiose claims about their military and economy. If we are going to see this super duper Pak-Fa flying in the republic day parade then it is something around 2025. We all know about Indian and russian talent.:rofl:Till then the brilliant brains behind PAF would already be thinking about ways how to deal with this "out of the world invention".:azn: And I believe they can deal with it because they have a huge experience of capturing IAF aircrafts, destroying IAF aircrafts and bombing IAF airbases.

So nothing to worry for keyboard warriors from across the border instead they should think about how to fulfill your dreams to make surgical strikes in Pakistan.


:azn:
 
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Two solutions.
To acquire and destroy a target, the aircraft has to first reach the designation......

Why would it not reach its Designation or destination what ever You call it...

And while sitting on the ground, PAK-FA or any other stealthy machine is as visible as any aircraft.

So? gonna do surgical strike and Thinking of getting away with it?
 
Why would it not reach its Designation or destination what ever You call it...



So? gonna do surgical strike and Thinking of getting away with it?
If you can think of surgical strike and getting away with it, why cant we :D
 
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