PAF Took 6 minutes to respond to IAF airspace violation last year

[MastanKhan]

Assuming, in a MAD scenario - an IAF mirage 2000 will surely get to Lahore or Karachi and drop its deadlly payload in a 6 minute window...I would be more interested to know if a PAF jet has escaped more than a few minutes in Indian airspace without being scared back...I would be interested in authentic sources rather than the usual numerous PAF fanboi's accounts.

Sir,

It would be really really stupid of anyone from the other side not to believe in it---first of all----.

Secondly---the reaction times are not the same every time---depending on the threat level---sometimes there is leeway given to the enemy---some times not----ie---sometimes it is quicker---sometimes it is slower.

It is done to keep the enemy guessing as to what the actual will be.

In a mad scenario---lahore is possible---but not karachi.

Actually it is not a matter of escaping---what they do is shepherd it out of their air space---tell them---go home.

Remember the rumour about the kill switches on the F16 blk 52's. Yeah all of the Blk52's have flown across and come back just to check there were no kill switches.

 

[Lil Mathew]

Response or reaction time should 3-4 seconds.. First response will be a warning through 121.5 Mhz(emergency freq for aircrafts).. After warning can engage with SAMS or jets already in air.. Scrambling take 2-15 min according to situations(peacetime ya emergency, readyness,efficiency etc.).. Here IAF planes 6min in prohibited air space means pilots ignore warnings many times (only happened in extreme situations).. Anyway it shows the incompetance of PAF..

 

[Alphacharlie]

Response or reaction time should 3-4 seconds.. First response will be a warning through 121.5 Mhz(emergency freq for aircrafts).. After warning can engage with SAMS or jets already in air.. Scrambling take 2-15 min according to situations(peacetime ya emergency, readyness,efficiency etc.).. Here IAF planes 6min in prohibited air space means pilots ignore warnings many times (only happened in extreme situations).. Anyway it shows the incompetance of PAF..

LIKE YOUR NOTE, BUT YOU ARE JUMPING THE GUN.

1. STANDARD OPR TIME IS 2 MIN IN PEACE TIME. (MEANING RUNNING FROM BASE PAN TO LIFT-OFF, WITH BRIEFING IN AIR)
2. IF WE ARE IN THEIR AIR SPACE & THEY DONT REACT DOESNT MEAN THEY ARE LAZY.
3. IT COULD MEAN :-
A) FOE IS OBSERVING YOU.
B) FOE IS RECORDING YOUR RADAR/INFR./R-T SIGNATURE
C) FOE IS NOT RESPONDING AS U ARE NOT NEAR "V.I/S.I"
D) FOE IS RECORDING YOU SORTIE VECTOR
4.FOE DOESNT WISH TO EXPOSE HIMSELF.

FINAL POINT - FIRING A SAM-02 FROM HEATING STAGE TO LAUNCH TAKES 30 SEC IN EMERGENCY MODE & FIM-92 TAKES 7-10 SEC TO ACTIVATE (BCU) WITH SEEKER. ( DONT REPLY ON EVASIVE MANEUVERS TO SELF)

SUN TZU - NO OPPPONENT IS WEAK

 

[Lil Mathew]

FOE DOESNT WISH TO EXPOSE HIMSELF.

SUN TZU - NO OPPPONENT IS WEAK

Yeh, that happened many times during cold war between USA and Soviet Union.. You are right..

 

[MastanKhan]

Response or reaction time should 3-4 seconds.. First response will be a warning through 121.5 Mhz(emergency freq for aircrafts).. After warning can engage with SAMS or jets already in air.. Scrambling take 2-15 min according to situations(peacetime ya emergency, readyness,efficiency etc.).. Here IAF planes 6min in prohibited air space means pilots ignore warnings many times (only happened in extreme situations).. Anyway it shows the incompetance of PAF..

Hi,

You may have seen too many movies----. This response time is air to air---aircraft to aircraft----not of missile defence.

The radar has already picked up the aicraft and notified the airbase---. They launch the aircraft or re-direct one in the air to intercept. You never turn on your ground to air missiles and do a missile lock---. You are first of all telling what kind of ground to air battery that you have----secondly---you just made your battery vulnerable to enemy strike and gave your location away.

 

[Lil Mathew]

Hi,

You may have seen too many movies----. This response time is air to air---aircraft to aircraft----not of missile defence.

The radar has already picked up the aicraft and notified the airbase---. They launch the aircraft or re-direct one in the air to intercept. You never turn on your ground to air missiles and do a missile lock---. You are first of all telling what kind of ground to air battery that you have----secondly---you just made your battery vulnerable to enemy strike and gave your location away.

No.. You are mistaken (pls read it one more time).. My point was not about your air defence and interception.. That is here the point is about the warnings (first respons).. That is the first warning through VHF will be within 3-4 sec after crossing the line.. If an aircraft continouesly ignores your warning and stay your air field in 6 minutes (that also in peacetime) is the matter.. In peace times enemy aircrafts deliberately(or mistakely) crosses the line but will retreat after getting warnings (as if they done this by mistake).. Here this 6 minutes means three things..
1. Your radars didn't pick up the planes for 6min.. Or
2. Enemy pilots ignored your warnings for 6min.. Or
3. You are just watching enemy planes without imposing your strategies as alphacharlie said in above post..

Here the second point is the most important..

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your comments----

1. pakistani radars are a DUD

2. Enemy pilots are monstrous

3. Our radar operators just had tea and samosa served to them---so they had other priorities

Or,

When the flight takes too long to respond---then it is an intimidation flight---those happen as well----. Just like the SU30's a few years ago. The enemy wants you to react by taking a shot to escalate hostility.

And as it is Nawaz Sharif's govt---the indian over flights don't have to fear much---. He could have stayed for 12 minutes and had his cup of tea at Raiwind----.

 

[Alphacharlie]

No.. You are mistaken (pls read it one more time).. My point was not about your air defence and interception.. That is here the point is about the warnings (first respons).. That is the first warning through VHF will be within 3-4 sec after crossing the line.. If an aircraft continouesly ignores your warning and stay your air field in 6 minutes (that also in peacetime) is the matter.. In peace times enemy aircrafts deliberately(or mistakely) crosses the line but will retreat after getting warnings (as if they done this by mistake).. Here this 6 minutes means three things..
1. Your radars didn't pick up the planes for 6min.. Or
2. Enemy pilots ignored your warnings for 6min.. Or
3. You are just watching enemy planes without imposing your strategies as alphacharlie said in above post..

Here the second point is the most important..

1. MARCONI/THOMSON/Lockeed AN FPS Series -
ARE BETTER RADARS THAN RUSSIAN ONE USED BY US TILL ADVENT OF ISRAELI AEROSTARS/GREEN PINE AND XBAND RADARS. ON SERVICEABILITY AND SPAN
A) BORDER COVER IS 2 LAYERED - ARMY AIR DEFENSE & AIR FORCE BORDER SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM
B) IT IS POSSIBLE ATC MIGHT HAVE SKIPPED BUT RADAR CONTROLS GIVE AUTO WARNING ALARM + AAD OBSERVER COMPANIES & SPADA BATTERIES NEVER MISS.
C) NEGATED THAT RADARS DIDNT PICK UP "BOOGIE"

2. THEY HAVE F16 BLOCK 52 TO MAKE A BOOGIE INTO BANDIT.
A) IF AHQ GAVE NO SOP TO CHASE TILL IT REACHES VI/SI IS UNDERSTANDABLE.
B) IT COULD ALSO MEAN POLITICAL DIRECTIVES TO CHASE BUT NEGATED IN CASE OF PAKISTAN.
C) PILOTS WILL DO IOTA TILL WE GET DIRECTIVES FROM STAFF OFFICER OR COO.

3. YOUR THIRD POINT IS STRONG. BUT SEE POINT 2.
A) BUT DONT THINK PAF IGNORED
B) KNOW CASES WHERE WEN WE WERE THERE, OUR RWR STARTED SCREEMING!! & NOTING CAME TO MEDIA.

 

[trident2010]

Remember the rumour about the kill switches on the F16 blk 52's. Yeah all of the Blk52's have flown across and come back just to check there were no kill switches.

Just a question. If there is a kill switch then why would India use it during the peace time? Use it when it needed the most, may be !!

 

[MastanKhan]

Just a question. If there is a kill switch then why would India use it during the peace time? Use it when it needed the most, may be !!

Hi,

India don't have kill switches---the aircraft has supposedly embeded in it.

 

[SQ8]

Just a question. If there is a kill switch then why would India use it during the peace time? Use it when it needed the most, may be !!

There is NO kill switch. What is there are startup codes..and alarms on the more sensitive equipment if they are opened by unauthorized personnel(read Chinese)

 

[illusion8]

Hi,

India don't have kill switches---the aircraft has supposedly embeded in it.

Going by what Snowden has revealed and what NSA and UK has been upto (tapping switched off laptops / webcams, bugging presidential/ PM phones and other devices, tapping into secure govt, mil emails and comms etc etc etc), I wouldn't be surprised if there is something called a kill switch - As in one cannot claim that it is not possible to have one.

 

[MastanKhan]

There is NO kill switch. What is there are startup codes..and alarms on the more sensitive equipment if they are opened by unauthorized personnel(read Chinese)

Hi,

Thank you. And those codes were always there on all aircraft

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

Thank you. And those codes were always there on all aircraft

From the First F-16A to Pakistan to the current. Generated fresh via US military attaché.

 

[janon]

From the First F-16A to Pakistan to the current. Generated fresh via US military attaché.

What is a startup code, and why is it generated by US mil attache?

As for kill switches, isn't it possible that they have some mechanism to prevent the aircrafts they sell from firing on aircrafts they own and operate? As in, in a hypothetical shooting war between PAF and USAF or USN, the missiles or radars won't lock on?

I don't believe they would install any kill switches to prevent them from being used against India - no point selling weapon systems that can't be used in war at all. But against the US itself...