In solidarity with the Hindu/Indian posters here on Defence.PK

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Do you ever realise that more Pakistanis try to "help" Kashmiris the more difficult it becomes for them?

Starting with 1948. Had Pakistanis not tried to invade Kashmir, the Maharaja wouldn't have asked for India's help and Kashmir would have been an Independent kingdom which a few years down the line may even have joined Pakistan.

Had you not provided help in the insurgency the Indian Army wouldn't be in Kashmir and the current situation wouldn't have happened.

Like I said, Pakistanis are honest about why we want a UN led plebiscite - we believe the Kashmiris will choose Pakistan

We are also honest about the fact that the odds are stacked against us in getting India to agree to implementing the UNSC Resolutions and in getting the world to pressure India to abide by her commitments on holding a plebiscite.

But we are not giving up, and we won't give up. That is us being completely honest as well.

With respect to the invasion of Kashmir by the tribesmen - read about the Jammu massacre perpetrated before the tribesmen invaded. By some estimates, up to 250,000 Muslims killed and countless displaced. It turned the Muslim majority in Jammu to a minority. The Maharajah had other such acts planned for other parts of the state. So the invasion was with cause, and India's own refusal to accept the accession of the princely state of Junagadh to Pakistan made Pakistani intervention even more justified, from the Pakistani perspective.

 

[Soumitra]

The problem with the statement of yours is that it refuses to acknowledge the fact that Kashmiris do not want to stay with India. It implies that this is a problem instigated by foreigners, and if those foreigners were to stop, this problem would go away.

You are not the only one harboring these beliefs. Almost all of India is.

Have you wondered why Pakistan was unable to instigate an uprising in Rajasthan or Gujarat, two states that share a long common border with Pakistan? Because there is no desire among the local population there to separate from India.

Look I already said that many Kashmiris will not like to be a part of India.

But I also told you the reality of the world "Might is Right"

 

[T90TankGuy]

Sure take your time. However, I would hope that you would be considerate that our place in society often determines how we view and interpret events.

My dear chap , i am probably one of those people who meets and interacts with every strata of society . but i shall respond soon . am off duty from tomorrow eve .

So you let him off the hook?

Why prolong the agony ,

 

[Raghav_101]

That's all our headache.

Like I said, Pakistanis are honest about why we want a UN led plebiscite - we believe the Kashmiris will choose Pakistan

We are also honest about the fact that the odds are stacked against us in getting India to agree to implementing the UNSC Resolutions and in getting the world to pressure India to abide by her commitments on holding a plebiscite.

But we are not giving up, and we won't give up. That is us being completely honest as well.

With respect to the invasion of Kashmir by the tribesmen - read about the Jammu massacre perpetrated before the tribesmen invaded. By some estimates, up to 250,000 Muslims killed and countless displaces. It turned the Muslim majority in Jammu to a minority. The Maharajah had other such acts planned for other parts of the state. So the invasion was with cause, and India's own refusal to accept the accession of the princely state of Junagadh, despite it's accession to Pakistan, made Pakistani intervention even more justified.

Good. Don't give up. It is extracting a huge cost on you not only in terms of money but also in terms of narrative. One lives in a La La Land if he believes that the entire world doesn't see Pakistan as facilitating "Terrorism" in India.

So in a nutshell, harping on Kashmir
1. Causes you monetary loss
2. Creates an unfavorable image
3. Gives your army a sideline democracy
4. Causes even more suffering to Kashmiris.

It causes economic cost on us too I guess. But we have a bigger economy so we can absorb it better. So in a way, Kashmir issue is pulling you down. The gap between Pakistan and India's GDP will only keep increasing. So good luck with all that Kashmir Banega Pakistan. Peace out.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't know how this thread turned into a Kashmir thread while I was cooking and eating a simple dinner (Vangaya Vepudu with Besan Chilla).

@AgNoStiC MuSliM @ChennaiDude @IMARV

Some of the friction is beginning to show, but this has still been by far one of the best discussions (that limited part) on Kashmir that I've seen.

@AgNoStiC MuSliM

If you could transfer the relevant posts to a different thread, we could avoid becoming accessories after the act. There are certain things more that need to be said but I am hesitant to drag a senior person into the mire in any haste to make a point.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Good. Don't give up. It is extracting a huge cost on you not only in terms of money but also in terms of narrative. One lives in a La La Land if he believes that the entire world doesn't see Pakistan as facilitating "Terrorism" in India.

So in a nutshell, harping on Kashmir
1. Causes you monetary loss
2. Creates an unfavorable image
3. Gives your army a sideline democracy
4. Causes even more suffering to Kashmiris.

It causes economic cost on us too I guess. But we have a bigger economy so we can absorb it better. So in a way, Kashmir issue is pulling you down. The gap between Pakistan and India's GDP will only keep increasing. So good luck with all that Kashmir Banega Pakistan. Peace out.

Sure, we have plenty of leftist voices that scream about the cost to Pakistan from focusing on Kashmir. It's absolutely not a view that is censored.

But, at the end of the day, we have (or the majority of Pakistanis have) as a nation chosen to bear the cost of continuing to advocate for the Kashmiris being allowed to choose their own destiny in a UN led plebiscite.

We know there is a cost, we know the odds are stacked against us and we'll deal with the consequences -- that is us being honest.

 

[ChennaiDude]

Vangaya Vepudu

OMG- I miss it so much- My wife cant cook Telegu food to save her life-Thats why I call her Mary (Can only bake stuff).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I don't know how this thread turned into a Kashmir thread while I was cooking and eating a simple dinner (Vangaya Vepudu with Besan Chilla).

Oh I know exactly how.

@IMARV asked @xeuss to explain why India should listen to the Kashmiris.

@IMARV then, not liking the response, asked why Kashmiris should be listened to because of the violence against Indian forces there, a comment that made me lose my sh!t and the rest is what you have seen.

If you could transfer the relevant posts to a different thread, we could avoid becoming accessories after the act. There are certain things more that need to be said but I am hesitant to drag a senior person into the mire in any haste to make a point.

Are you talking about the Kashmir posts on this thread or the whole part about 'being honest' or both?

 

[xeuss]

Look I already said that many Kashmiris will not like to be a part of India.

But I also told you the reality of the world "Might is Right"

Okay...fair enough

 

[Raghav_101]

Sure, we have plenty of leftist voices that scream about the cost to Pakistan from focusing on Kashmir. It's absolutely not a view that is censored.

But, at the end of the day, we have (or the majority of Pakistanis have) as a nation chosen to bear the cost of continuing to advocate for the Kashmiris being allowed to choose their own destiny in a UN led plebiscite.

We know there is a cost, we know the odds are stacked against us and we'll deal with the consequences -- that is us being honest.

I respect your choice. Let's hope the cost doesn't become unbearable in the long run. Good luck.

 

[Joe Shearer]

OMG- I miss it so much- My wife cant cook Telegu food to save her life-Thats why I call her Mary (Can only bake stuff).

It's less than ten minutes to cook; you can do it. As quick as Aloo Peyaz or Aloo Jeera, or Bhendi Fry. Nothing to these whatsoever. Also its cousins, Bangaladhumpa Vepudu and Bendakaya Vepudu.

Just try getting her this book from Amazon:
Cooking at Home with Pedatha by Jigyasa Giri and Pratibha Jain

It is incredible; Pedatha is Subhadra Parigi, the daughter of the late Dr. V. V. Giri. The recipes in the book work, exactly as described. I've tried complicated recipes from the book and they never fail (sometimes they need a couple of iterations to perfect).

Incidentally, there's a strong Karnataka influence in her cooking and her recipes.

Oh I know exactly how.

@IMARV asked @xeuss to explain why India should listen to the Kashmiris.

@IMARV then, not liking the response, asked why Kashmiris should be listened to because of the violence against Indian forces there, a comment that made me lose my sh!t and the rest is what you have seen.


Are you talking about the Kashmir posts on this thread or the whole part about 'being honest' or both?

The bit that will give you the least trouble.

I laughed out loud at your summary. Honest, like the rest. This was really a good discussion. Thank you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I respect your choice. Let's hope the cost doesn't become unbearable in the long run. Good luck.

I hope you realize that the BJP has no longer made it about just Kashmir in Pakistan.

Those leftist voices of dissent have turned into a whisper. Only the extreme outliers still even dare to say anything about it, and they are vilified, mocked and tormented, through use of the BJP and Indian military's own words and actions.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I hope you realize that the BJP has no longer made it about just Kashmir in Pakistan.

Those leftist voices of dissent have turned into a whisper. Only the extreme outliers still even dare to say anything about it, and they are vilified, mocked and tormented, through use of the BJP and Indian military's own words and actions.

So true.

Just as Pakistan was the Kashmiri's worst friend some years ago, the BJP is Pakistan's best enemy today.
(For the record, I use Kashmiri for those who speak Koshur only).

 

[Soumitra]

I hope you realize that the BJP has no longer made it about just Kashmir in Pakistan.

Those leftist voices of dissent have turned into a whisper. Only the extreme outliers still even dare to say anything about it, and they are vilified, mocked and tormented, through use of the BJP and Indian military's own words and actions.

Why are leftist voices in both countries against the national narrative?Not only in India and Pakistan, it is happening all over the world. Do they not realise the way the wind is blowing?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Just try getting her this book from Amazon:
Cooking at Home with Pedatha by Jigyasa Giri and Pratibha Jain

It is incredible; Pedatha is Subhadra Parigi, the daughter of the late Dr. V. V. Giri. The recipes in the book work, exactly as described. I've tried complicated recipes from the book and they never fail (sometimes they need a couple of iterations to perfect).

Thank you for the recommendation!

Spent a fair degree of my childhood in a GCC country before moving back to Pakistan, and used to love eating at an Indian restaurant (South Indian I think - they had a thaali with a bunch of veggie curries etc on them and chapatis & rice). I was pretty young then but for some reason it's one of the memories that stuck with me.