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IAF, not Army, will get first of the Apaches attack helicopters

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IAF, not Army, will get first of the Apaches attack helicopters


The defence ministry has rejected the Army's case for "ownership" of the 22 heavy-duty Apache helicopters, armed with deadly Hellfire and Stinger missiles, which India is all set to acquire from the US in a $1.4 billion contract.

The MoD, citing defence minister A K Antony's approval, has held the 22 AH-64D Apache Longbow gunships will "remain" with the IAF because the procurement deal was an "ongoing" one, which did not fall into category of "future" acquisitions, said officials.


The Army has been eyeing the Apache helicopters, that earlier defeated Russian Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant's Mi-28 Havoc choppers in the field trials conducted by IAF, for which the final commercial negotiations are now underway between MoD and Boeing.

Antony last year was compelled to step into the bitter turf war raging between Army and IAF for years, which publically erupted even during the 1999 Kargil conflict, over the ownership of attack helicopters.

The minister had then decided that "future" procurements of attack helicopters would be for the Army since the force contended it desperately needed the gunships to target enemy infantry and tanks on the ground.

But IAF argued it should be allowed to retain all the attack and medium-lift helicopters because it would be "very expensive" if the Army duplicated efforts and resources by getting its own "little air force". The "command and control" over IAF's two existing squadrons of Mi-25/35 attack helicopters was in any case in the hands of Army.

After MoD said the Army would also get its own attack helicopters to resolve the imbroglio, the force had laid claim to the "ownership" of the 22 Apache helicopters as well. "But the procurement process for the 22 Apache helicopters began much before the decision about giving Army ownership of future such inductions was taken," said a MoD official.

An undeterred Army, however, chalked out plans to have its own "mini" air force in the years ahead. Apart from creating a permanent cadre for the Army Aviation Corps, the force is raising "aviation brigades" for each of its three "strike" and 10 "pivot" corps.

The Army currently operates 195 Chetak/Chetak light observation helicopters as well as 70 Dhruv advanced light helicopters. Its long-term plans include three helicopter squadrons (10-12 choppers each) — armed or attack, reconnaissance and tactical lift — each for all its 13 corps as well as "a flight" of five fixed-wing aircraft each for its six regional or operational commands.
 
The decision does not seem to be a very wise one.


I wonder if IA will also go for heavy gunship procurement from abroad. LCH though is capable for its role, a heavy and modern dedicated strike helicopter like Apache is in its own league.
 
iaf should let army to operate apaches. But then army dont have uavs and Apaches longbow radar got data link capability and and control/operate uavs
Any plans for army going for uavs?
I think there was a plan to buy 20 mini-UAVs for kashmir operations
 
i would say calling this is an unwise decision is an understatement
I'll say this is the most stupidest decision i have ever heard..........

The core of anti-armor triangle (Or rectangle in some country) are Gun ship, Armor and infantry (In some country like the US, you also put CAP in the equation)

If you let the airforce in chrage of those apache, unless your airforce are always on standby, you lose the chance to plug the gap in between your armor and your infantry. On operational level, you either suffer a heavy casualty in operation, or you will let the enmy slip away and hit you from whereever they are.

Drone is not an important part of the issue. No doubt the longbow is much much more capable with drones, but it's quite a foe as a standalone platform too. I think Indian Army just got hacked...
 
i would say calling this is an unwise decision is an understatement
I'll say this is the most stupidest decision i have ever heard..........

The core of anti-armor triangle (Or rectangle in some country) are Gun ship, Armor and infantry (In some country like the US, you also put CAP in the equation)

If you let the airforce in chrage of those apache, unless your airforce are always on standby, you lose the chance to plug the gap in between your armor and your infantry. On operational level, you either suffer a heavy casualty in operation, or you will let the enmy slip away and hit you from whereever they are.

Drone is not an important part of the issue. No doubt the longbow is much much more capable with drones, but it's quite a foe as a standalone platform too. I think Indian Army just got hacked...

IA are getting attack helicopters, but not in the caliber of the Apaches.

rudraground1024x682.jpg

lch12.jpg
 
I think this comes as no surprise to most. The fact is it was the IAF who initiated this process and has invested so much time in trails and selection. But I don't think anyone should be all that disheartened with this news. As it stands the IA AAC is set to grow exponentially in the next few years. From a force that operated a limited number of lightly (if at all) armed light scout helos to one that is set to operate vast numbers of dedicated attack helos (LCH) and lethal swing role medium lift helos (ALH WSI) not to mention the huge numbers of standard ALHs. This is a growth that's by in the IA would've killed for not many years back. And once the IA AAC have got a handle on all these inductions (and it is going to take a while for them to get their heads around all these new and advanced platforms) then for sure they can look at either getting the Apaches transferred to them, or more likely, going in for heir own seperate procurement of heavy-attack helos.
 
hmmm expected one. first our AAC should train itself in operating dedicated attack helos by using ALH and LCH. then it can go for apache or mi28. and i think our iaf will reduce the number of LCH it is going to procure.
 
good but not army first and 22 will not be enough specially against China they also have lot of attack helicopters and developing new one
 
good but not army first and 22 will not be enough specially against China they also have lot of attack helicopters and developing new one

22 is just the intial order. Projections are for 80-100+ Apaches not to mention the ~150+ LCHs and 150+ ALH WSI.
 
22 is just the intial order. Projections are for 80-100+ Apaches not to mention the ~150+ LCHs and 150+ ALH WSI.

hey dude why we need that much apache. for iaf its enough. and for IA AAC they will go for seperate RFP for heavy attack gunship. and also if ATT gets passed in UN means then further procurement of weapons from US will be reduced i think so. what's your opinion here.
 
These are light weight infantry support helos, they don't have either the surviveablity or the firepower and agility of an Apache.

What do you expect them to do? Buy hundreds of Apaches like they're planning to do with LCHs + Rudras?

They'll be armed with potent anti tank missiles like Helina + Spike/PARS 3 LR.


helina1.jpg

PARS_3_LR_400x300.jpg

images
 
What do you expect them to do? Buy hundreds of Apaches like they're planning to do with LCHs + Rudras?

Deploy Apache's with the Armored crops. Those two helos have very little surviveability against, advanced threats like new generation MANPADs with either internally cooled HS/ or IR/Image guidance systems.
 
Deploy Apache's with the Armored crops. Those two helos have very little surviveability against, advanced threats like new generation MANPADs with either internally cooled HS/ or IR/Image guidance systems.

This is the defence suit for Rudra and probably for LCH too.


the latest Saab Compact Integrated
Defensive Aids Suite, CIDAS, is one in
a suite of advanced systems designed to provide eW self protection
for airborne platforms in sophisticated, diverse and dense threat environments.
The IDAS/CIDAS family includes the
CIDAS and IDAS-3. The IDAS/CIDAS of
today is a further evolutionary progres-sion
of the original Saab concept to produce the
worlds first fully Integrated Defensive Aids
Suite, IDAS-1, which provided multi spectral
radar, laser and missile warning with automatic countermeasures decoy dispensing.
CIDAS is the small and light weight variant
with only electro-optic sensors and a smaller
controller. It is designed for the protection
of aircraft against Man Portable Air Defence
Systems, MANPADS, and laser based threats,
many of which are encountered in the currently prevailing peace keeping environment.
IDAS-3 is the high-end system which can be
configured with laser warning, and missile approach warning, as well as the full
multi-spectral detection capability for radar;
including a Saab digital receiver, DRx, as an
option.
Both variants are fully integrated with BOP-L,
Saab’s new advanced lightweight countermeasures dispensing system. The modular
system architecture allows IDAS/CIDAS to
be configured for any combination of the
three sensor system types. IDAS and CIDAS
offer a cost effective defensive aids suite
providing exceptional performance in a lightweight fit for a wide variety of aircraft.

http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Electronic%20Warfare%20Solutions/IDAS/IDAS-CIDAS%20product%20sheet.pdf

Deploy Apache's with the Armored crops.


Yeah, makes more sense.
 
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