IAF, not Army, will get first of the Apaches attack helicopters

[Gentelman]

These are light weight infantry support helos, they don't have either the surviveablity or the firepower and agility of an Apache.

they look good!!
and the 2nd one look like an attack helo...

 

[Kompromat]

This is the defence suit for Rudra and probably for LCH too.




http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Electronic%20Warfare%20Solutions/IDAS/IDAS-CIDAS%20product%20sheet.pdf

Lets say if i hit the Rudra with .50Cal bullets the odds are that it won't take more than half a dozen of them. Moreover, the sort of threat i am talking about cannot be jammed, lastly if i fire a MANPAD, it will hit the copter within 5-8 seconds or evel less which means there is very little time for the pilots to deploy countermeasures.

Here is the Chinese FN-6 hitting a high flying helo in 7 seconds.

Here is another one.

 

[Kompromat]

MIG-23 hit by AAA

 

[Kompromat]

In Soviet afghan war.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

That's why they invested in a good defence suit. Rudra and probably LCH are/will be covered with sensors.

They're not naked helicopters in the middle east.

 

[acetophenol]

What do you expect them to do? Buy hundreds of Apaches like they're planning to do with LCHs + Rudras?

They'll be armed with potent anti tank missiles like Helina + Spike/PARS 3 LR.

That second pic,which helo is that?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

That second pic,which helo is that?

Eurocopter Tiger.

 

[xuxu1457]

i would say calling this is an unwise decision is an understatement
I'll say this is the most stupidest decision i have ever heard..........

The core of anti-armor triangle (Or rectangle in some country) are Gun ship, Armor and infantry (In some country like the US, you also put CAP in the equation)

If you let the airforce in chrage of those apache, unless your airforce are always on standby, you lose the chance to plug the gap in between your armor and your infantry. On operational level, you either suffer a heavy casualty in operation, or you will let the enmy slip away and hit you from whereever they are.

Drone is not an important part of the issue. No doubt the longbow is much much more capable with drones, but it's quite a foe as a standalone platform too. I think Indian Army just got hacked...

Agree with you, it's the worst decision, the reason "The fact is it was the IAF who initiated this process and has invested so much time in trails and selection." is funny, army and IAF are India's , Apache belong to India not IAF, give the part(Apache and other attack helicopters and the pilots , Ground staff，Service personnel) to army; hard bo image the F-18 on carrier belong to US air force and not in the hand of navy

 

[acetophenol]

Eurocopter Tiger.

Thanks bro. The atgm is PARS i guess.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The decision does not seem to be a very wise one.


I wonder if IA will also go for heavy gunship procurement from abroad. LCH though is capable for its role, a heavy and modern dedicated strike helicopter like Apache is in its own league.

This decision is a preliminary one and not the last word. I will not think too much about it though I am a votary of rotary winged assets belonging to the army as an "organic force".

Let the IA first set up its force as planned and run it for some time. Consisting of Rudras and LCH as attack elements and Cheetals/Lancers and Dhruvas as utility/recce elements. That is a big task as it is to integrate them as an organic part of its strike forces. That process is well under way and successfully yet. But it has not reached 'critical mass'. That will happen about 5 years down the line. Then things will change, follow-up orders of the Apaches will definitely go the Army. On this matter, MoD is in 'wait and watch' mode while the IAF is in 'apprehensive mode' seeing that its turf will be curtailed.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

bad decision, army requires an autonomous air arm.

 

[Rajesh_Singh1984]

MIG-23 hit by AAA

i don't know, why these videos are uploaded on this issue...... if I m not wrong your means Indian helicopters no chance to survive against SAM, rights?

My question :- Will Pakistani and Chinese helicopters survive against SAM?

My Ans :- we can prepare and use better self defense and equipment for better survival chance. Indian MOD also doing the same.

 

[Koovie]

These are light weight infantry support helos, they don't have either the surviveablity or the firepower and agility of an Apache.

Absolutely true, but the LCH for instance was only designed by us because no other combat helo could operate as easily in high altitude areas like this helo. Apaches and MI 35s will only be used in non mountainous regions.

good but not army first and 22 will not be enough specially against China they also have lot of attack helicopters and developing new one

Its unlikely that the Apaches will be posted on the eastern border. The use of tanks and heavy helos like the Apache will be restricted due to the mountainous structure of the area.Furthermore, 22 is just the initial order, if the IAF is happy with them, we have the option for follow up orders.

 

[jhungary]

Many people don't even know what bird like Longbow and Mi-35 does......

The triangle i mentioned before is a standard armor engagement circle. A 3 steps warfare that make sure none of the armor can escape your defense.

Apache was used first to detect and control the enemy armor number, they determine the number of armor, then each apache took out the 8 or 16 most highest priority (C&C Vehicle, Lead tank, rear guard, upgrade or advance armor in case of an mix armor attack) Then they pull out and report back to the ground force. Then you move your armor up to the now-should-be-chaotic enemy. Your armor will take on any armor left. Then you finally use your infantry to complete the encirclement and take out any staggered armor either trying to advance or trying to pull back, viola your done.

Giving the Air Force exclusive control over the Apache will cause delay and information congestion as they enemy armor can simply roll up on you. When you are teaming up Apache and the Air Force, the only thing i can see the use of it is from a Apache-CAP point of view. But the problem is, CAP cannot be used when your own guy are close to the enemy and it is only a 1 shot weapon and it does not have a good station time. using Apache-CAP is simply negating the advantage of using Apache in the first place, that is long stationing time and surprise......When bomb start dropping, everybody would know what the hack is going on.........You lose the surprise element on the get go....

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Many people don't even know what bird like Longbow and Mi-35 does......

The triangle i mentioned before is a standard armor engagement circle. A 3 steps warfare that make sure none of the armor can escape your defense.

Apache was used first to detect and control the enemy armor number, they determine the number of armor, then each apache took out the 8 or 16 most highest priority (C&C Vehicle, Lead tank, rear guard, upgrade or advance armor in case of an mix armor attack) Then they pull out and report back to the ground force. Then you move your armor up to the now-should-be-chaotic enemy. Your armor will take on any armor left. Then you finally use your infantry to complete the encirclement and take out any staggered armor either trying to advance or trying to pull back, viola your done.

Giving the Air Force exclusive control over the Apache will cause delay and information congestion as they enemy armor can simply roll up on you. When you are teaming up Apache and the Air Force, the only thing i can see the use of it is from a Apache-CAP point of view. But the problem is, CAP cannot be used when your own guy are close to the enemy and it is only a 1 shot weapon and it does not have a good station time. using Apache-CAP is simply negating the advantage of using Apache in the first place, that is long stationing time and surprise......When bomb start dropping, everybody would know what the hack is going on.........You lose the surprise element on the get go....

@jhungary; what you are talking about is true. But in this matter; it is simply a matter of a "turf war" between the Air Force and the Army for control of the assets. Correctly speaking, in South Asia; the doctrines for the use of Helo Gunships is still evolving. Until now the IA paid for the existing Mi-35s out of its budget while they were flown by IAF pilots. While the IA started out with Helos only in an Arty spotter role, which were done earlier by Piper Cub type of light aircraft. It is only now that the IA has a doctrine for use of Rotary winged gunships as an organic part of Mech Forces. This is the transitionary period, the dust will settle down and control of all Gunships will pass to the IA.
About 50 years ago, the IN had to similarly fight with the IAF to gain control of Attack and MR/ASW aircraft. The IN eventually prevailed; just because they had acquired a Carrier. And there was just no way that the IAF knew how to run that Carrier!