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How to deal with growing Sindhi Nationalism?

Tell me?

  • What kept the British Raj together for nearly 200 years?
  • What keeps Turkey Iran together?
  • What keeps Turkey together?
  • What keeps Singapore together?
  • What keeps Indonesia together?
On the other hand if Islam is bonding glue tell me?

  • Why did it not keept Bangla in 1971?
  • Why is Afghanistan divided from us?
  • Why is Iran divided from us?
  • Why is Saudia divided from us?
  • Why is there 12 differant Arab countries?

Your logic holds no water. Non.

1.Singapore is not muslim country.
2.Turkey is kept united by nationalism which was brought in by Ataturk.
3.The British Raj was a artifical entity and was not a country it was simply held together by force.
4.Iran is an Islamicized country and that bonds them.
5.Indonesia is also a muslim majority country ever heard of the Aceh's Sharia law.However if you are genuinely intrested in Indonesia which I doubt you are then you should contact @Indos.
And btw you ask really stupid questions.
 
Who was this? I think I have been a PDF member now for over decade and I don't think I have even comes across one Sindhi member. There are more Africans here then Sindhi's despite they being the third largest ethnic group who actually have their own province - Sindh. All things equal this place should have at least 1/3 Sindhi's or dozens of members.

This just shows us the issue. PPP is a gift to rest of Sindh because it keeps all of rural Sindh placated and sedated. Or else by now you would have had a full scale military insurgency that would make the Bengali Mukhtos or Indian Maoists look like kindergarten warriors.

I wish there were Sindi's here to explain how despite crushing inequity Sindhi masses are so sedated. I think the nature of Sindhi social structure means as long as you buy out few of their elites - like Bhuttos the mass can be kept chained. In that sense Bhuttos and PPP are actually peforming a vital function for the present order.

Or there would have been full scale insurgency and civil war.
The truth is opposite. Bhuttos are the reason of Sindhi nationalism. Bhuttos kept Sindh backward for many decades. If there had been development in Sindh, Sindhis would have been better assimilated. Educated Sindhis don't vote for Bhuttos. Only the illiterate or rural types worship waderas who in turn work for Bhuttos. Once any Sindhi guy gets education, they become fiercely patriotic like @Max and @Daghalodi.

- PRTP GWD
 
Singapore is not muslim country.
How is that relevant? In fact Singapore proves my contention. You have migrants from China, Indian and native Malays yet the country runs far smoother then Pakistan. The three ethnic groups from vastly differant parts of the world have gelled under Singapore identity. They did not need Islam or become Muslims to unite. In fact the Chinese, Indian Tamils, Malay Muslims have united without using any religion.

Turkey is kept united by nationalism which was brought in by Ataturk.
Which proves my point you can use all manner of things to create unity as Turkey, Singapore prove without even touching religiion.

.The British Raj was a artifical entity and was not a country it was simply held together by force.
So artificial that it lasted nearly 200 years but Pakistan Version 0.1 last 24 years and Banglas broke off. Even the Pakistan V 0.2 is only 70 years old yet far cry from the old age the Raj got to.

Indonesia is also a muslim majority country ever heard of the Aceh's Sharia law.However if you are genuinely intrested in Indonesia which I doubt you are then you should contact
Indonesia is a multi-ethnic state but is a secular republic. I believe like the Turks.

And btw you ask really stupid questions.
If you can't differantiate between critical analysis and stupidy it points to you education deficit.
 
A growing threat is the rapid feeling of alienation among the educated Sindhi youth. There exists a wide wedge between them and the state. The recent Bahria Town fiaso has only exasperated these feelings of alienation. Additional factors are...
1) PPP governance
2) No credible alternative to PPP ( PTI had a chance to capitalize on the Bahria Town incident but it only chose to highlight the violence of the protestors and not the land grab by Malik Riaz)
3) Urdu Media Racism ( Sindhi youth feel strongly about racist depictions in mainstream Urdu Media)
4) Karachi politics ( Sindhi youth feel strongly about voices coming from Karachi demanding a separate province)
5) No visible mainstream representation in the national media, sports teams.
6) Unease about demographic change in Sindh ( previously limited to Urdu Speakers but now increasingly hostile to Pushtun presence in Sindh).
7) Water Shortage ( Many believe Punjab is stealing water from them)

Some of the people who have these concerns believe solving these issues within the federation of Pakistan. However, a Sindhudesh idea, as prepostorous and impractical as it may sound, is also gaining traction.

A lot of these concerns can be dismissed as they lay in falsehoods. Demographic change in a multi-ethnic country like Pakistan is a given especially in the 21st century. However, we need to engage them on other issues to bridge the divide.

a) provide a mainstream alternative to PPP ( Due to its corruption and misgovernance, PPP can longer provide a buffer against Sindhi separatism)

b) Bridge rural/urban divide ( Urdu speakers need to join their voices with educated Sindhis and own Sindh.....expressions of hate against Sindh and Sindhi people will not help any community).

c) Solve water issues ( the only long-term solution is the provision of desalination plants for communities in the Sindh delta).

d) Take a stand against reported forced conversions ( Sindhi youth are more progressive as compared to other ethnic groups when it comes to religious liberties hence a stand by the state of Pakistan against this practise will earn us their trust and goodwill).

In terms of numbers, Sindhis are the third largest ethnic group and not sure we can afford another disaffected group. We have to tackle these issues before they blow up in our face and before they become too complicated.

Other ideas are welcome on this thread.
Have been living in Sindh for almost 4 years now.
And have observed Sindhis to be nationalistic and take pride in the language and culture but not hardcore separatist.
JASQM etc are limited to rural areas and have only a ceremonial presence and not too much support.
We are in 2021... not the 70s or 80s... today Sindhis are integrated into mainstream. We got Sindhi generals and soldiers.
Heck last week I was near Nawabshah meeting retired SMs from Father's regiment.. and after 10 mins drive I saw the old JASQM flag nobody gave a shit bout.

Even GM Syed was pro Pak and much later did he turn against... and he had his reasons..

What we need is not to kill and arrest the average dumbass... but a careful cleansing of masterminds and their handlers... who we all know bout.

P.S: GM Syeds grandson themselves are educated from cadet colleges... thats what I call fuking irony.
The truth is opposite. Bhuttos are the reason of Sindhi nationalism. Bhuttos kept Sindh backward for many decades. If there had been development in Sindh, Sindhis would have been better assimilated. Educated Sindhis don't vote for Bhuttos. Only the illiterate or rural types worship waderas who in turn work for Bhuttos. Once any Sindhi guy gets education, they become fiercely patriotic like @Max and @Daghalodi.

- PRTP GWD
You dont know shit bout Sindh... that said we have Sindhi members... @T-Faz, @Men in Green @A.Rafay @Super Falcon and many more including a female member who although was Sindhi but lived in Quetta.
How is that relevant? In fact Singapore proves my contention. You have migrants from China, Indian and native Malays yet the country runs far smoother then Pakistan. The three ethnic groups from vastly differant parts of the world have gelled under Singapore identity. They did not need Islam or become Muslims to unite. In fact the Chinese, Indian Tamils, Malay Muslims have united without using any religion.

Which proves my point you can use all manner of things to create unity as Turkey, Singapore prove without even touching religiion.

So artificial that it lasted nearly 200 years but Pakistan Version 0.1 last 24 years and Banglas broke off. Even the Pakistan V 0.2 is only 70 years old yet far cry from the old age the Raj got to.

Indonesia is a multi-ethnic state but is a secular republic. I believe like the Turks.

If you can't differantiate between critical analysis and stupidy it points to you education deficit.
You seem to have no idea bout the racial divide in the singaporean society,

Google Appu Nay Nay...
 
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The South Punjab is historically part of Sindh, all the way up to Multan. We are willing to retake it add to Sindh but don't be mistaken about Sindhis giving up or dividing any part our land. That's a no no.
Sindh was roughly defined as the entire Indus Valley and often encompassed parts of Gujarat and Afghanistan as well.

With the Arab invasions, Sindh began to be referred to only the region of Sindh that was under Arab occupation later on (this briefly included Multan).
 
And what will keep Pakistan together?Islam is the only thing that keeps Pakistan United.A Punjabi has no relation with a Pashtun and vice versa except Islam.Same with the other ethnicities.Islam promotes brotherhood and non racism and that will help in Pakistanis looking at other Pakistanis as brothers and fellow countrymen rather than Pashtun's or Punjabis.
The actual Pakistan Movement was formed by 2 Pashtuns and 2 Punjabis with the first relevant discussions of a separate country emerging out of Islamia College, Lahore in 1915 - roughly 60-70 years after the British had largely completed their conquest of modern-day Pakistan.

The original Pakistan Movement did not see religion as the sole reason for independence, but instead, as one of three reasons for the basis of Pakistan.
"I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKSTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India—Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakstan of a separate Federal Constitution on religious, social (ethno-cultural) and historical grounds." ~ Pakistan declaration
They saw ethno-cultural, historic, geographic, etc... affinities just as important as shared religion for the development of a national identity and national cohesion. Hence why, they advocated for Bengali and Hindustani Muslims to have their own separate countries instead of having them join Pakistan (which is why Bengal is not a part of the Pakistan acronym that was developed by the original Pakistan movement).

They saw "India" and the "Indian identity" as artificial constructs of the British and loathed British attempts to impose these identities on them.

"India, constituted as it is at the present moment, is not the name of one single country; nor the home of one single nation. It is, in fact, the designation of a State created for the first time in history, by the British. It includes peoples who have never previously formed part of India at any period in its history; but who have, on the other hand, from the dawn of history till the advent of the British, possessed and retained distinct nationalities of their own."

"This was a destructive power victimizing men and nations, crippling religions and states, enslaving at least half of the continent of Asia. With the coming of the British it had manifested itself in the establishment of the Indian National Congress. The motive of this Congress was to establish an All India Federation. The congress had designated all British possessions in South Asia as India denied to the non Indian nations the right to their own nationhood, and, by making pretentious claims, stamped Indian nationality on the peoples of this area."
~ Rehmat Ali on what he referred to as "Indianism" and the "Indianization" of South Asia.​

1623864296405.png



Also to claim that Punjabis and Pashtuns have nothing in common except Islam is just nonsensical. Our regions and ethnic groups are strongly inter-connected whether it be by genetics, geography, history, culture and much more.

This book excerpt sums it up well.
1623865631938.png


Ethno-nationalism will continue in this country for as long as we look to Islam as the only sole pillar of our national identity.
 
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What is the Demographic ratios of nationalities in Sindh?
-Sidhis
-Urdu Speaking
-Pathan
-Punjabis
-Balochs
 
The actual Pakistan Movement was formed by 2 Pashtuns and 2 Punjabis with the first relevant discussions of a separate country emerging out of Islamia College, Lahore in 1915 - roughly 60-70 years after the British had largely completed their conquest of modern-day Pakistan.

The original Pakistan Movement did not see religion as the sole reason for independence, but instead, as one of three reasons for the basis of Pakistan.

They saw ethno-cultural, historic, geographic, etc... affinities just as important as shared religion for the development of a national identity and national cohesion. Hence why, they advocated for Bengali and Hindustani Muslims to have their own separate countries instead of having them join Pakistan (which is why Bengal is not a part of the Pakistan acronym that was developed by the original Pakistan movement).

They saw "India" and the "Indian identity" as artificial constructs of the British and loathed British attempts to impose these identities on them.

"India, constituted as it is at the present moment, is not the name of one single country; nor the home of one single nation. It is, in fact, the designation of a State created for the first time in history, by the British. It includes peoples who have never previously formed part of India at any period in its history; but who have, on the other hand, from the dawn of history till the advent of the British, possessed and retained distinct nationalities of their own."

"This was a destructive power victimizing men and nations, crippling religions and states, enslaving at least half of the continent of Asia. With the coming of the British it had manifested itself in the establishment of the Indian National Congress. The motive of this Congress was to establish an All India Federation. The congress had designated all British possessions in South Asia as India denied to the non Indian nations the right to their own nationhood, and, by making pretentious claims, stamped Indian nationality on the peoples of this area."
~ Rehmat Ali on what he referred to as "Indianism" and the "Indianization" of South Asia.​

View attachment 754027


Also to claim that Punjabis and Pashtuns have nothing in common except Islam is just nonsensical. Our regions and ethnic groups are strongly inter-connected whether it be by genetics, geography, history, culture and much more.

This book excerpt sums it up well.
View attachment 754033

Ethno-nationalism will continue in this country for as long as we look to Islam as the only sole pillar of our national identity.
Fabulous post. One of the few members whose posts I read and learn new things. Best of all they are reasoned and with quality referances. Pashtuns and Punjabi's have a long history of living adjacent to eavh other. In my part of Pakistan near Attock we have mixed Pashtun, Hindkho speaking Punjabi's and this pattern continues south all the way to Mianwali with place names like Bani Afghan, Dhoke Afghan being obvious pointers.
2 Pashtuns and 2 Punjabis with the first relevant discussions of a separate country emerging out of Islamia College, Lahore in 1915
Referance for this?
 
When exactly will it dawn upon you guys that Pakistan exists because of its provinces and provinces do not exist because of Pakistan? But then again if you did not learn in 1971 why would you learn now?

Here's the thing. Virtually every Sindhi is a nationalist, including those of us who favour being part of Pakistan. However, when you lay hands on the hardcore nationalists you also risk alienating those who strongly support being part of Pakistan. Make no mistake, when it comes to choosing between Sindh & Pakistan we'll always chose Sindh. We have always opposed the separatist nationalism but that does not mean we'll abandon our nationalists, even if we resent their politics from the bottom of our hearts. My suggestion is simple: hands off. Let us deal with our own people.


He no longer has any credibility in Sindh or amongst Sindhis. I was once a big supporter. I believed in his cause and thought he would be a great alternative to all the scums in and outside of Sindh. But today I and other Sindhis like me who were willing to support him do not view him with friendliness. Imagine, people of Thar refusing to listen to their own murshad SMQ and voting against him. Reason is simple, the PTI & GDA members in Sindh are far worse than PPP members.

Enlighten us how PTI is worse than PPP. What exactly has PPP done for Sindh?
 
Tell me?

  • What kept the British Raj together for nearly 200 years?
  • What keeps Turkey Iran together?
  • What keeps Turkey together?
  • What keeps Singapore together?
  • What keeps Indonesia together?
On the other hand if Islam is bonding glue tell me?

  • Why did it not keept Bangla in 1971?
  • Why is Afghanistan divided from us?
  • Why is Iran divided from us?
  • Why is Saudia divided from us?
  • Why is there 12 differant Arab countries?

Your logic holds no water. Non.

None of the countries mentioned above came into existence on the name of Islam

Try again racist
 
The actual Pakistan Movement was formed by 2 Pashtuns and 2 Punjabis with the first relevant discussions of a separate country emerging out of Islamia College, Lahore in 1915 - roughly 60-70 years after the British had largely completed their conquest of modern-day Pakistan.

The original Pakistan Movement did not see religion as the sole reason for independence, but instead, as one of three reasons for the basis of Pakistan.

Pakistan movement had her roots in Sir Syed Aligarh Movement.

It forms the basis that religion alone is the single unifying factor for socio political status of various ethnicities and subsequent cultures in the fold of Islam in British governed states after removal of the Mughals. Since most of the cultures present in the region are oral traditions, language of Urdu was chosen as a medium of resistance.

Sindh or Sindhi identity goes back to times when a civilisation flourished between Sindhu and Saraswati rivers.
 
no such thing as "sindhi nationalism" let alone "growing sindhi nationalism". the vast majority of sindhis are extremely patriotic but also very poor and oppressed at the hands of vaderas turned politicians who are "portraying" that this nonexistent "sindhi nationalism" is growing. the average sindhi knows that his well being is tied to remaining with Pakistan otherwise these vaderas would devour them alive. so to eradicate this issue, REMOVE THE PEE PEE PEE government once and for all. bring in a coalition government of PTI, PML-F and MQM. this so called "sindhi nationalism" will whimper out and go poof into the thin air.
 
They saw ethno-cultural, historic, geographic, etc... affinities just as important as shared religion for the development of a national identity and national cohesion.

This is an extremely exaggerated statement. Specially when one considers what Islam is and does to fabricated ideologies like culture, ethnicity or documented history.

Founding fathers were fundamentalist Muslims not conservative or moderate.
 
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