How good the Mig-29 UPG/SMT against the F-16 Blk 50/52+ ??

[Luftwaffe]

Dont know what shit you are hooked on...

prepare to read more shyt below your post by ptldm3 ...these folks are really delusional.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

all that considered its a strategic blunder by the navy to opt for mig-29k for aircraft carriers.

though its good enough for pakistan but not anywhere else,at least a better radar was must,maybe a better irst too.

that would have made all the diff

Rafles won't fit in the elevators without major redeisgn and f-35 is still faar off.What do u suggest as alternative?Maybe f-35/pak fa naval for vishal,but vikramaditya and vikrant with ski-jump has limited options.The mig-29k as of now is a modern fighter out and out.Till china fields 5th gen designs on its carriers it will remain so.

 

[bloo]

prepare to read more shyt below your post by ptldm3 ...these folks are really delusional.

And yall just enjoy denial, don't u?

 

[Luftwaffe]

And yall just enjoy denial, don't u?

Stop wasting your time do some research.
F-16 Versions - F-16 MLU :: F-16.net

You clowns know nothing and fire shot in the air about 80's 90's computer, wonder how do you even survive on these Forums.

 

[MiG-21]

^Why are you proving the other guy's point? From your own link:


Modular Mission Computer

This computer consists of line-replaceable modules (LRMs) based upon several MIPSCO R3000 32-bit RISC microprocessors


That is not a 20 year old... that's a 25 year old processor! It came out in 1988. So much for "20 years advanced technology" claimed by F-16 fanboys.

Your fairly tales are nothig but internet gossip. Show me the list of kills Russian Missiles have scored in 'actual combat', then we'll compare it to the Sidewinder and AMRAAMs 'combat record'....truth will be established and all fairy tales would be put to rest.

Sigh.. so establishes facts are fairy tales. Not surprised coming from my neighbor.
I'll give you that if the 6 points I mentioned goes in favor of the MiGs too. The russians unfortunately aren't touring the world looking for oil. They have plenty in store. However the areas where the 6 points don't apply, namely hidden SAM sites which have survived spy sat and spy plane detection, those same russian technology converted those teens into scrap shooting down around 52 junks out of the sky, of their own admission and several more if the other side's claim is taken into account.

 

[trident2010]

u cant compare russian tech with american tech.... they are like atleast 20 years ahead of you guys...

The problem here is american tech eco system is advanced than any other country in the world. As far as PAF is concern they have very limited tech F-16s which is not compatible / limited compatibility with chinese tech. On the other hand Mig-29upg India got has all the advance tech Russia developed along with Israeli and French techs too. Same goes for weapons. PAF has very limited not upto date weapons and radars for F-16s and therefore they cannot boast what USAF did with their F-16s they can also do the same. USAF F-16s and PAF F-16s are in totally different league. As Sancho mentioned in his earlier post that JF-17 is more advanced than PAF F-16s in many respects.

 

[GURU DUTT]

The problem here is american tech eco system is advanced than any other country in the world. As far as PAF is concern they have very limited tech F-16s which is not compatible / limited compatibility with chinese tech. On the other hand Mig-29upg India got has all the advance tech Russia developed along with Israeli and French techs too. Same goes for weapons. PAF has very limited not upto date weapons and radars for F-16s and therefore they cannot boast what USAF did with their F-16s they can also do the same. USAF F-16s and PAF F-16s are in totally different league. As Sancho mentioned in his earlier post that JF-17 is more advanced than PAF F-16s in many respects.

priciselli bhai ....good post

thing is unlike pakistan who is seen with mistrust and suspecion for handing over western tech to china to reverse ingenear that is not the case with india since 'india buys them with hard cash' and pakistan has to do as it has no choice china gives pakistan free wepons becuse pakistan dose that (main rason why USA has its experts posted in paksitani air bases where latest Block 52 are kept)as it has no money to buy them owtright ...deal with it paksiatni friends and thats priciselly why USA & west give share there obsolete technology with pakistan and that is one reason why PAF can never take on IAF (which has all acsess to Israeli,french , russian & american latest cutting edge milltarry tech)recent examples (green pines, phalcons,P8is, C17s & hercules and many more are in pipeline)

now the thread in about MIG 29 SMT Vs F 16 Block 52 well even here PAF cant match IAF cause

1.India has some 60 MIG 29 SMTs while pakistan has onli 18 and if they take those 32 inprocess of MLU (which can never be at par with latest Blk 52) it is still 10 peces short one on one

2.MIG29s were designed to surpass F16 almost 3 decades ago and had techs like HMS and Data link between many aircrafts(missiles on one aircraft can be targeted on enemy aircraft by second aircraft) do your ealli think russians were sitting idel all this time specially after they annalysd there shortcomings after downing of serbian and iraqi Mig 29s

3.Pakistan is not the onli nation who has AWACS thing is you have onli 2 eyewires +4 chinese while we have 3 Phalcons + 2 more are on order and every one knows Phalcon is considered one of the best if not the best AWACS platform + icing on the cake is that it uses A3 platform which has far better range , flieght cieling , endurence not to forget the jamming capability and tracking range

4.also IAF will not be alone with M29s onli they will be backed by extensive SAM & ground based radar coverage while the top cover will be given by MKIs backed by M2Ks and M 21 Bisons while Pakistan will have onli 50-80 JF17s and some other chinese platforms as backing and we all know about paksiatni ground based radars & SAMs (here agin thanks to Israelies)

5.Wepons , EW suites , HMS comined on IAFs Mig 29 SMTs are way better than F 16s Blk 52s of PAF and we dont have to worry about spare parts , feul and bugs/kill swtich as on PAFs F16s


so the bottom line is PAF will never be able to achieve air superiorty over IAF as niether it has tech nor the numbers for the same until or unless PLAAF sends it J10Bs & J20s & J30s to help pakistan or the arab nations send there F16s , typhoons or M2ks to fight for PAF ...do pakistanies think the later will ever happen if yes ...then good luck

 

[Kompromat]

@sandy_3126

There is nothing left to talk about. Talk to me when the Russian Migs score their first teen 'kill'. Then we will have solid grounds to discuss.

Migs are an epic failure with scam weapons. No Russian AIR TO AIR missile has EVER shot down a 'teen' on ANY air craft.

Lets just wait until the migs prove their salt FIRST.

@ptldM3

'Who' built your laptop?

Go to the Hindukush mountains with a metal detector, you may still find the pieces from the dozens of your junk our F-16s shot down from the air.

Or have a chat with Col. Ruskoi Alexander Valadimirovich, whom our F-16s shot down. He ended up becoming your vice president later.

Whatever you say, none of your Junk has EVER shot down a teen Aircraft....and thats a fact that still stands. You can suck it up and babble as much as you want.

 

[Bratva]

I guess you mean the missile seeker, R73 is given with 35 to 40° afaik, only later generation missiles like AIM 9X, MICA, IRIS-T or Python V had higher capabilities.
@Abingdonboy made a nice post about the R73 trials of LCA, with the Dash HMS:

LCA Tejas at Iron Fist 2013 | Page 3

What I tried to say that, Can Pilot with topsight helmet look over his shoulder and and lock on to to plane on it's tail and fire missile?

I'm asking this because, topsight specs says it has 20 Degree operating capability and also from abing post DASH doesn't provide a 90 degree operating capability correct me if I'm wrong.


If that's the case, Then AIM-9M with JHMCS also also provides a limited off boresight capability, I concur not as advance as R-73 but it gets the job done by looking left or right with JHMCS.


What I'm trying to say, It all boils down to Pilot skills. Similar technology is employed on both planes and nobody can say MIG-29 UPG can win a fight due to better technology.

 

[GURU DUTT]

What I tried to say that, Can Pilot with topsight helmet look over his shoulder and and lock on to to plane on it's tail and fire missile?

I'm asking this because, topsight specs says it has 20 Degree operating capability and I also saw a video of your last year "large scale AF exercises" where one pilot slightly tilting it's head to right fire a missile to a plane and on that thread someone mentioned.

If that's the case, Then AIM-9M with JHMCS also also provides a limited off boresight capability, I concur not as advance as R-73 but it gets the job done by looking left or right with JHMCS.


What I'm trying to say, It all boils down to Pilot skills. Similar technology is employed on both planes.

wellbro ok if we take as a rule then do you realli think indian pilots are untrained or have any less skills as compared to PAF pilots if yes then why so please do tell me im waiting

 

[Bratva]

wellbro ok if we take as a rule then do you realli think indian pilots are untrained or have any less skills as compared to PAF pilots if yes then why so please do tell me im waiting

With introduction of SU-30 in 1995-96 and better access to tech, IAF pilots have become proficient. In distant and recent WVR exercises that PAF participated, unofficially F-16 pilots scored a kill against Euro Fighter and Once again this year exercises with Saudis, unofficially they scored a kill against their Euro fighters and F-15.

I know, I know unofficial is such a turn off for you indians. The first eurofighter kill was mentioned in Air international article by Alan Warnes, the second saudi encounter is again mentioned by Alan warnes and it's just just like Rafael pilots and french officials unofficially leaked it's WVR combat results with F-22 and then video came

 

[GURU DUTT]

With introduction of SU-30 in 1995-96 and better access to tech, IAF pilots have become proficient. In distant and recent WVR exercises that PAF participated, unofficially F-16 pilots scored a kill against Euro Fighter and Once again this year exercises with Saudis, unofficially they scored a kill against their Euro fighters and F-15.

I know, I know unofficial is such a turn off for you indians. The first eurofighter kill was mentioned in Air international article by Alan Warnes, the second saudi encounter is again mentioned by Alan warnes and it's just just like Rafael pilots and french officials unofficially leaked it's WVR combat results with F-22 and then video came

well bro check the correct facts even indian pilots have acsess to such exersise and we do it on regular basis with almost all the major air forces and im not that good at googling but thing is even owr MIG 21 gave a very hard time to F16s and some others in recent exersises not to mention MKIs

but thats not the point what i was curious about your earlier post was when yopu pointed owt that HMS capabilities of both MIG 29 SMT and F 16 Blk 52 are simmilar(i ask some person like sancho to tell us in detail) and that PAF pilots have an edge deu there skills im simpalli asking do you realli think thats all that matters in an arial bettle and indian pilots are any less skill full or undertrained if yes then how please care to explain ...thanks in advance

 

[Bratva]

well bro check the correct facts even indian pilots have acsess to such exersise and we do it on regular basis with almost all the major air forces and im not that good at googling but thing is even owr MIG 21 gave a very hard time to F16s and some others in recent exersises not to mention MKIs

but thats not the point what i was curious about your earlier post was when yopu pointed owt that HMS capabilities of both MIG 29 SMT and F 16 Blk 52 are simmilar(i ask some person like sancho to tell us in detail) and that PAF pilots have an edge deu there skills im simpalli asking do you realli think thats all that matters in an arial bettle and indian pilots are any less skill full or undertrained if yes then how please care to explain ...thanks in advance

You see, We are discussing WVR scenario in this thread and MIG-21 and F-16 scenario was a BVR one.

Yup I do love to here IAF WVR results in exercises with other AF. IIRC the British AF pilot in it's debriefing did mention SU-30 amazing maneuverability due to it's TVR and dual engine but we are here discussing MIG-29.

What I believe F-16 Pilot of PAF will have a upper hand in WVR.

And by upper hand I doesn't mean IAF aren't skillful. For your own understanding. 19/20 wali situation. 20 being PAF pilot

 

[GURU DUTT]

You see, We are discussing WVR scenario in this thread and MIG-21 and F-16 scenario was a BVR one.

Yup I do love to here IAF WVR results in exercises with other AF. IIRC the British AF pilot in it's debriefing did mention SU-30 amazing maneuverability due to it's TVR and dual engine but we are here discussing MIG-29.

What I believe F-16 Pilot of PAF will have a upper hand in WVR.

And by upper hand I doesn't mean IAF aren't skillful. For your own understanding. 19/20 wali situation. 20 being PAF pilot

wel bhai ok aap bhi meri tarah muhib Ul Watan hain

but the point is even in WVR context IAF will have upper hand deu to other factors also biggest of them bieng numbers + latest techs like IRIS T , EW suites among other backups on indian Migs which is not the case for PAF

which intrun pips the scale in favour of IAF pilots by margin of 16/20 and 20 bieng IAF pilots

 

[rockstarIN]

You see, We are discussing WVR scenario in this thread and MIG-21 and F-16 scenario was a BVR one.

Yup I do love to here IAF WVR results in exercises with other AF. IIRC the British AF pilot in it's debriefing did mention SU-30 amazing maneuverability due to it's TVR and dual engine but we are here discussing MIG-29.

What I believe F-16 Pilot of PAF will have a upper hand in WVR.

And by upper hand I doesn't mean IAF aren't skillful. For your own understanding. 19/20 wali situation. 20 being PAF pilot

See, aerodynamically as well as thrust.. it is MiG-29. So far WVR, it is a knife fight after the merge and luck plays a bigger part. Some guys just got lucky and others not.